Any information on the Midland Continental is most welcome. The railroad deserves a book but it should be written by a local and not an outlander. Thanks for adding this additional info on these steam locomotives. Since the MC's Wimbledon depot still stands and serves as a museum for the railroad and singer Peggy Lee, whose father worked as an agent there, it would be fitting to have a historical society created to help save everything that can be found and displayed at the depot.
The fact that the line was envisioned to run from Winnipeg to Galveston makes the MC unique. There have been countless "paper" railroads created but the MC did get built if only some 70 plus miles. Classic Trains should update the Trains artical and publish same in an upcoming issue.
Unique, it seems, in two ways. First, most railroads (except along the coasts) were concieved as east-west oriented trunk lines. Especially in the prairies (exceptions IC, D&RG, CNO&TP). Secondly, it was designed to be an international road. It seems that most lines crossing into Canada or Mexico were appentages to other larger systems (GN, SP, etc.).
The big question to me is why? Was it designed to be primarily a grain funnel to the Gulf? In those days most grain traffic moved (again) on an east-west axis.
It's funny how some of the most obscure railroads are the most interesting. (AC&Y, I'm talking about you! But being a native of Akron, my prejudice can be excused:-)
Trinity: How are you coming in your quest for color photos of the RS-1 locos?
Not good at all. I wonder if anybody shot color of the MC at all? I have no idea what the color was when they were delivered or if they underwent a repaint after serving on the road for several years thinking that the harsh winters must have taken their toll on the bodies as well. The black and white photos all seem to show a solid color scheme. Black perhaps?
Why would a Texan be interested in the MC and the railroads of the Northern Plains anyway? Same goes for the Canadian prairies. I tend to favor the railroads from Minnesota to the Pacific Northwest despite the fact I railroaded in Texas on the SSW and ATSF and retired here in Germany off the Deutsche Bahn. I got my first look at European equipment during autumn 1964 while attending the US Army Transportation Corps school at Ft. Eustus, VA.
I fell in love with the Northern Pacific's North Coast Limited when I saw the American Flyer S gauge catalog that featured the train. Item: This might seem odd coming from an x-ATSF railroader but I regret that the NP didn't order Alco PA/PB set for the NCL. SP fans consider the Daylight the most beautiful train in the world with the Santa Fe folks claiming that the Warbonnets were but in my opinion the two tone green that the NCL wore is tops! American Flyer's S gauge PA/PBs really look sharp in the scheme.
As for the MC's RS-1s, I think that they would have looked great in the Rock Island's fancy red and black scheme with the white wings like the GP7s wore when delivered! Remember now, I'm a natural born Dallas Texan and my mouth is located due south under the tail of a bull!
I didn't think of them. Will try and send them my request. It appears that most railfans photographed the Class One railroads in the area, though Richard Steinheimer included a couple of photos in his Kalmbach published book "Backwoods Railroads of the West" which leads me to believe he took more. Is it too much to ask the editor of Classic Trains to consider a lengthly artical in the near future on the Midland? Kalmbach possibly has more of "Steins" MC pix in their files or can obtain access to them.
The Midland suffered the same fate as many shortline railroads that were purchased by larger roads, then abandoned. Down South, the Tennesee, Alabama & Georgia is another example. Purchased by the Southern Railway, most of the railroad has been ripped up.
Trinity, wasn't the game really up for the MC long before it changed hands? I've got to think the NP picking it up was surely a reflex of habit -- the BN was abandoning better branches than that within a few years.
Hang onto the thought: Wimbleton to Edgeley, in North Dakota. Doesn't exactly get the business hormones excited, does it?
(I'm a NoDak, so I can say this: The name Edgeley, with its suggestion of marginality, always makes me smile. Another name is Tappen, which reminds me of a blind person, "Tappin' ". Shame on me, no doubt.)
Shame on you indeed. My last 21 years in my 40 year long transportation career was with Deutsche Bahn (German Rail) at the main railway station in Nuremberg, Germany. I was a passenger service represenative and helped many "tappers" board and detrain and despite the fact I would take them arm in arm, they'd still "tap" their way on the platforms or through the station. I assume it was habit but I never asked any of them way they "tapped" while being escourted.
Your comment about the MC is one that needs an answer at that though. Was there enough traffic to warrant the line being added to the BN camp at all? I am an "outlander" so don't know the territory that well to qualify and no, it isn't because I am a follower of the MC and feel that they should have remained in bizz just so I could visit North Dakota and wave at the train crew as they passed me by. I have been invited to visit Wimbledon and their MC depot and sure hope I can make this dream come true. Health and finance issues prevent it at this time.
By the way, I was born and raised in Dallas, Tex., but didn't start to railfan in earnest until my step-father moved the family to Tampa, Fla. in 1962. It was there that I met my best friend for life until his untimely passing in 2006. He was a locomotive engineer in the Florida phosphate mine region and was a fan of Mr. D's machine, but more that that, he was an Alco-haulic! The MC's two RS1s certainly fit that bill! I'm a fan of the two Alco RS27s that roamed Soo Line rails and were known as the Dolly Sisters I believe.
I also speak German albeit with a Texas draw. You don't wanna hear that!!! The Trinity River runs through Dallas and I started my railroad career after my military duty with the Cotton Belt in 1967. In 1968 I hired on with "John" Santa Fe. All this was in the D/FW area. Thus I received the nickname "Trinity River Bottoms Boomer" from a Katy car knocker, Avery F. von Blon, Jr. I remain a big fan of the railroads from the Twin Cities to the Pacific Northwest though.
Dakota Fred:
Please look at the 11/27/13 reply by Rob Drye. That will explain the history regarding the MC sale.
Ed Burns
It is interesting to note that the C&NW's proposed purchase of the MC to make connections with a M&StL line as well as a possible expansion of the MILW took place during the period when most railroads in the US were either cutting back branch lines or seeking total abandonment altogether. Branch line operations were expensive considering the railroads had to pay full crews to service them.
Just before the Rock Island shut down I understand that it had reached agreement with the unions to operate two man crews on the branch lines to save the rail service and jobs as well. It seems likely that the Rock would have reverted to full crews during the annual wheat harvest where additional brakemen may have been required. Of course, by this late date, the radio had eliminated the use of full crews required to pass hand signals so the two man crew agreement would have probably remained in effect the entire year anyway.
Regarding the MILW. Since the US is not a socialistic country, the western extention including the electrified zones, were laid to rest. Many communities lost rail service in the best of the Public Be Damned attitude. Had the Gov stepped in and purchased the line no doubt regional carriers would have been created to insure continued rail service along the route. In Montana, the infamous White Sulphur Springs & Yellowstone Park Line RR could have expanded service to the MILW mainline as an example.
Also, Amtrak could have been routed to the MILW track as well, thus freeing BN's freights of playing see saw with the passenger trains. Both Glacier National Park and Yellowstone would have still been served from the former MILW route and there would have been no loss of the fantastic scenery in the Pacific Northwest either.
Perhaps the Chinese should have purchased the MILW as an inland "invasion" to gain exclusive right-of-way for their container traffic moving from Pacific Northwest ports to Chicago and eastern markets? You could see green and white GE diesel power moving the trains, both freight and passenger, just like they do today on the new line they built to Tibet! And mabie you could photograph some 2-10-2s had they brought a few over for good PR measures! Gads, what a thought and mabie a great idea for a freelanced model railroad too?
Item: Chinese Railways have ribbed sided passenger cars and brake vans (cabooses) in the very best Milwaukee Road tradition!
Eddie and Trinity,
Rob has the CNW confused with the Milwaukee, which had the connection with the MC at Edgeley (from Aberdeen, S.D., which was on its line to the Pacific Northwest).
The CNW also went to Aberdeen (on its line from Sioux City), continuing from there as far north as Oakes, N.D. Its total mileage in North Dakota was about 16 miles, with no connection to the MC.
I'm operating off my 1962 Official Guide. The MC's map in there is heroic, to say the least, depicting its connections from Canada to the lower Midwest, and from the Great Lakes to the Pacific! It actually has this note: "Passenger service irregular."
Trinity, your "Boomer" tag is surely well-earned. The one thing missing from your most interesting account is how the trail led to Germany.
The info on the Soo and NP's purchase of the Midland Continental came from Wallace Abbey's The Little Jewel book about the Soo Line. I just passed on his version of the story.
1oldgoat Unique, it seems, in two ways. First, most railroads (except along the coasts) were concieved as east-west oriented trunk lines. Especially in the prairies (exceptions IC, D&RG, CNO&TP). Secondly, it was designed to be an international road. It seems that most lines crossing into Canada or Mexico were appentages to other larger systems (GN, SP, etc.). The big question to me is why? Was it designed to be primarily a grain funnel to the Gulf? In those days most grain traffic moved (again) on an east-west axis. ...
...
Yes, indeed why. Both CP and the CN predecessor had lines to the (Great) Lakehead, (although this was before the SL Seaway). They also had lines to Montreal and east for international shipment. Most of the Canadian lines were E-W, so why would they want to short-haul themselves, and hand over the traffic at Winnipeg. GN also had a N-S tap to Winnipeg. It's not surprising that the MC didn't get far.
There were so many railroads built on dreams and no doubt the MC was another one. The sheer fact that it operated as long as it did is amazing to say the least. I mentioned that the roads two RS1s would have looked good in the fancy Rock Island scheme with white wings that the Rock's GP7s worn when delivered. Two other roads had simular schemes albeit w/o the wings: Midland Valley and Spokane International. Like the MC, the SI dieselized with the Alco RS1! I read that the SI's were equipped with chime horns. Anybody know what the MC's RS1s had?
The AC&Y is another interesting and sadly fallen shortline indeed. Their fancy yellow boxcars with large red billboard initials out did a lot of other roads. Same with the big red MN&S lettering on the blue Minneapolis, Northfield & Southern, which sadly is gone too. A book on the MN&S has just been released and is a great read! Trains editor Jim Wrinn is writing a book on the North Carolina shortline Graham County that operated a Shay into the mid-1970s. I hope he completes it before I join all the other railroaders and railfans in the big roundhouse in the sky!
I was sent to Germany in 1965 after attending the US Army Transportation School at Ft. Eustus, VA. The autumn of '64 was really "cool" for an 18 year old railfan who barely remembered the last days of steam on the Katy and Cotton Belt in Texas. There were Saturday morning steam-ups on the post and combined with the red, gold and green Virginia fall weather it was beautiful to say the least.
Assigned with the 49th Transportation Group with HQ in Mannheim, Germany, I was sent to the Nuremberg area in Northern Bavaria. I met my wife to be in the PX where she worked as a civialian employee with the EES division of AFFES. We returned to the States after we were married. She left Germany before I was discharged and stayed with her aunt in NJ. Her aunt's husband was a retired Erie-Lackawanna claim agent. He started his career with the DL&W's Hoboken Ferries.
In retrospect we should had remained in NJ as Uncle Frank surely could have got me on with E-L. I decided to head home to Texas instead. Homesick, my wife wanted to return to Germany and I followed suit in Dec. '76. I learned to speak German during my tour of duty as I was assigned to the Bundeswehr's Verkerskommandantur (traffic office). I speak German with a Texas draw. You DON'T wanna hear that!
I got to see the German Federal Railways put on a first class steam show and rode behind the big Class 01 pacifics. I am still a fan of the 2-10-0 which were the mainstay for hauling the goods trains. I'm also a fan of the Russian decs that remained in the States as well, not to mention the MILW's Little Joe electrics. Unlike the CSS&SB, the MILW Joe's retained the trace of the cut off buffers that they wore for delivery to the USSR. I like such wierd stuff but then again, I'm from Texas.
By the way, my mouth is located due south under a bulls tail!
Fabulous stuff, Trinity. What a life you have led, railroading, railfanning and otherwise! Thank you for filling in the blank spaces I asked about.
I have also enjoyed your posts on the Fred Frailey blog. I don't participate there anymore myself because the posturing, blustering, namecalling Rail Pundit -- he should be whistle-bit there as we are on the other forums! -- has finally worn me out.
(Hate to admit defeat, especially to an aperture like that, but life is too short.)
Gads guys (and mabie gals too?), I'm just another human being (this can be debated of course) trying to make it through life and to join all my railfan buddies and railroaders that befirended me over the years in the big roundhouse in the sky. I respect ALL of God's creatures, and this includes ALL men and women regardless of race. color, creed or religion. We're all in this thing together. I am not a preacher but the late Med Broussard of Seattle, WA did put me on the right track back in 1961 when I was attending Farmers Branch Bible Church north of Dallas. He found out early I loved trains (Katy at the time). He was going to Dallas Theological Seminary and was a big Great Northern fan. Med was youth director at that wonderful little wood white framed country church at the time.
What I don't need is another book. I'm weeding out a bunch now but put me on your list for the AC&Y! I really really regret that my all time best friend from Tampa, FL is no longer with us. He would have bought the AC&Y book for sure. Robert (RIP) loved diesels and shortlines.
I enjoy Rail Pundets comments at times but he is too loose mouthed at that. I think he is an OK guy but certainly isn't a Good Ole Boy. Not many men obtain that status. I don't consider myself one either and still have a lot of stuff I need to change too but try and get along with everybody and no, I am not well educated. High school and the US Army Transportation School is it. I did learn German without going to any school, though did follow the language courses that were offered on educational TV in TX in the late 60s (from the Goethe Institue in Muncih, Germany) and it improved what I had learned while stationed here in Germany as a GI.
I didn't plan to stay here as a civilian either. I planned to return to the States in 79 and hire out with BN and work out of Glendive, MT where they were hiring for the Powder River coal field trains. One of my wife's brothers persuaded me to hire on with German Federal Rys. OK, it was gov owned, 30 day paid vacation, health care, and they added my 9 plus years experience to the senority roster no less! It was too good to be true though if I could do it over again I'd rather be in Montana!
I am invited to the MC Wimbledon depot in North Dakota and also a day on Progressive Rail too! As most know, PR operates the former MN&S trackage. I'm a big MN&S fan and John Lueke's new book is great! I've been a fan of the Northern Great Plains for many years but never had the chance to visit. I used to know two guys in Dallas from "God's Country"!. An L&A (KCS) brakeman worked into Dallas from Greenville and a car knocker on the T&P (MP) in Dallas was from Winnipeg, Manitoba. They both settled in TX, tired of the harsh winters.
Pushing for 68 this coming 4th of July, I love cold weather. Guess I'm just nuts in a Texas peanut patch at that?
TBBB: I think many of us would be very interested in your view of European railroads, and German railroads in particular, capturing frieght traffic from highway haulers. Another subject, considering what happened with mega-mergers in the USA, is any light on how E. German and W. German railroaders got together and how operations were combined after the Wall was torn down. These could be separate threads, and I am sure you have lots to tell. There may be some lessons for us there, or maybe not, but interesting events, I am sure.
Possibly best on the TRAINS General Forum, but it has been almost 50 years since the Wall came down.
daveklepperPossibly best on the TRAINS General Forum, but it has been almost 50 years since the Wall came down.
Dave, it's been little more than 50 years since the Wall went UP! Unless you are counting in some base other than decimal.
If you had said 'nearly twenty-five years' it would have been about right.
Hey, TR, don't regret your past choices. Sounds like your tenure with DB was educational and fulfilling. I retired from BN (Interbay roundhouse) and let me put it this way... I loved the railroad, but hated the Company! I won't go into details except to say that there's no greater oxymoron than "enlightened management"!
I'm currently "employed" as a volunteer at the Northwest Railway Museum in Snoqualmie, WA (30 mi. E of Seattle). I work much harder than with Big Nasty have twice the fun and 3X the fulfillment. Go figure. If any of you are out this way, let me know in advance and I'll give you the grand tour. I don't know if I can post my e-mail address here. But let me know if you want to see the museum and ride the train and we'll find a way for direct communication. Our website is: www.trainmuseum.org . Check it out.
"I know they have railroads in Heaven because anyplace without them would certainly be Hell."
Long live the MC and ACY!!
I stand corrected. I was obviously thinking of 1967 and the Jerusalem "Wall."
Regrets? Still wish I'd immigrated to Montana from Texas! When the Berlin wall fell and the Iron Curtain was torn down I had been a service rep with DB for just shy of three months at the Nuremberg station. Special trains were run from x-E. Germany with DR (Deutsche Reischsbahn) equipment and I met some of the nices human beings from what had been Communist East Germany. I helped one family obtain overnight accommodations in Nuremberg and tears were shed from both parties!
I worked with many former DR employees. Same story. Great men and women. Railroading is one big family on this planet regardless of the country. I retired a year early to get away from the quasi-privitized Deutsche Bahn. Too many internal problems and a young dynamic female manager and a big wide generation gap. No, I'm not getting down on women or this lady. We just didn't see eye to eye on most issues. No hard feelings and she gave me a nice go away but I didn't look back with any tears in my eye when I finished my last shift.
My grandmother's step-dad cried his last day on the Katy when he retired I'm told. He got a gold watch. I got to clean out my locker! Times change. Well, why not start an AC&Y forum here at Classic Trains too? The big yellow boxcars always reminded me of the Katy's from days gone by. Of course along came Frisco and T&P with their yellow DF boxcars in the early 60s as well as Atlantic Coast Line's big covered hoppers in what they called Federal Yellow!
I don't spend any time down by the tracks though there are a lot of GATX tankcars here in Europe now! Talk about a real knee slapper and toe tapper when I saw my first one displaying huge GATX billboard lettering. Item: Back in the 90s there was a fire at the GATX terminal in Tampa, FL and the news reporter called the company Gay-Tex...O Kay....?
I loved railroading in Texas for SSW and ATSF too. SSW was too SP in Dallas but over in Ft. Worth it was still good old Cotton Belt. But I got cut off the extra board in Sept. '68 and went to John Santa Fe's general office buidling and hired out on the spot as a switchman and was assigned to E. Dallas Yard. It was still a family of railroaders and you could still feel a slient pride among the men and women employees. It was starting to change when I moved to Germany in Dec. '76 though. I loved working the 4PM backside job in E. Dallas in late Sept. when the State Fair of Texas was in progress. Every night they set off fireworks in the Cotton Bowl and we'd enjoy the show from the yardmaster's tower! :)
Great days, great memories, but I'm thankful I got to retire at 64 just the same. I would really love to visit the Pacific Northwest and if my dream comes true I will make sure I visit and will check out the Northwest Railway Museum website. 1OldGoat , I'll give the Museum a call and won't give up til I get you on the phone!
Railroads in Heaven? Well, England's Great Western was known as God's Wonderful Railway!
I'm still in contact with a buddy from my Army days who hales from Cleveland. We met at Transportation School in '64 and were both assigned to the 49th Trans Gp here in Germany. He isn't a railfan but likes trains just the same. I am afraid I wouldn't qualify to start anything here on the AC&Y. I admire all the shortlines who provided the best darn service they could give, most going above and beyond the call of duty, to serve rail customers. A lot of Class Ones would have learned from them and not just then but today as well!
DBAG is another way to spell S***! They ran off a lot of rail freight customers after going to the quasi-privite sector in 1994. The trend continues. It is a modern but mismanaged European railway. Another ICE locomotive caught on fire at Munich this week due to a short circuit. The ICE train was made up of two train sets so the train left Munich late and with only one set to accommodate the passengers. Another standing room only ride for many people which makes for Happy Passengers who want to come back and ride again!
DBAG remains a 100% railway controlled by the German Gov and continues to receive subsidies to keep it running. In 2014 there are still trains and stations that have NO handicap facilities! Ride a regional express from Stuttgart to Nuremberg in your wheelchair w/o proper rest room facilities! Even the Toonerville Trolley does a better job in this department! I won't continue to run off my big Texas mouth and though I don't have a fistfull of fancy figures, am not impressed with the job that DBAG is doing for the most part. A reason I retired a year early.
I almost relocated from Texas to Port Townsend, WA as I was offered a job with MILW. Another offer came from BC Rail in Vancouver, BC. I think I should have gone for that one. But I came back to the Fatherland and got on with the old DB which until '94 was a good railway to work for.
I don't think it will matter how much non-MC gets posted here. Not many MC fans outside of the territory it served even know it was once upon a time a real good shortline serving North Dakota. I would like to see Classic Trains run an entire issue devoted to the shortlines and regionals of the Northern Plains from MC and MN&S to the branchlines of the Hill Lines, M&StL, etc. Fat chance and even if it come to pass won't even fill 100 pages probably which is a turn off to me when I pay for a magazine with a fancy cover price.
At best, Kalmbach should publish two 128 page specials every year devoted to geographical areas of both the US and Canada and Mexico too! I regret that I didn't listen to my grandfather and take up journalism in school. My dream would be to publish a high quality railroad magazine the same size as National Geographic with no less than 128 pages an issue! Oversize magazine formats are hard to read when one commutes by rail or bus but then again, I really miss the old Railroad Magazine with Freeman Hubbard as editor.
My main problem is that God said Brains, I thought he said Trains, so missed mine! If I had the "smarts"I'd love to do a free online magazine in the best tradition of the free online model magazine, Model Railroad Hobbyist. I'm thinking about sending them a request to consider publishing a prototype online magazine as well. Yes Kalmbach, I'm not going to purchase any magazine less than 100 pages nor be forced to subscribe to Trains to get the latest railroad news which can be obtained from other sources for free! If I pay for a magazine on the newsstand I should have access to the online news without taking out a subscription! Hey, we're in the 21st Century but again, in many cases, GREED and PROFIT have replaced SERVICE and A.C. Kalmbach's dream has been abused and it is time to return to his roots!
The magazines that David P. Morgan, Lynn Westcott and lovely Rosemary Entringer turned out with Al every month by burning midnight oil and pounding huck finn out of Underwood typewriters were true labors of love. Computers are great now but change for change sake isn't what makes a great magazine. I'm not just hitting at Kalmbach. Carstens has done the same with Railfan & Railroad. The "& Railroad" should be dropped from the title too! If a magazine with a $5.95 cover price can't contain 100 pages I won't purchase it! I will even pay $6.95 for a 100 page publication. It isn't the $$$ so give me 100 pages and access to the news, cost what it will. I'll buy it!
Time to climb off my stump.
Do you llike and buy Classic Trains? I think it's a must read magazine for me.
Stutgart is an interesting city. Home of Mereces automobiles. But downtown is all pedestrian, transportation of all kinds is underground. I was there just before they converted their last narrow-gauge (meeter-gauge) tram line to Statbahn standard gauge. Underground like a subway in the downtown area. This was about 20 years ago, and I had no complaints, only praise for German railways at the time. A very clean and safe city, without any problem for a visitor.
OK. I've tried to start an AC&Y thread. As I'm still quite the Luddite with computers, I'm not sure I pushed the right buttons and pulled the proper levers. We'll see. If it doesn't stick to the wall, hopefully someone a bit more tech savy can set one up.
ACY discussion and other non-MC chat has diluted this fine thread. I don't want the MC folks to give up as I enjoy what they've put out about a road that I know very little about. And ACY thread or not, I plan on keeping up on the thread because there's no doubt they will find more about the MC to share. (Maybe the illusive color shot of an RS-1?)
IMHO, threads like this provide a valuable service to the railfan community in general, especially when they deal with obscure or under studied shortlines. Not every SL has the large, enthusiastc following ACY does. Maybe that will change. However, if others hi-jack their threads, we will all loose something valuable.
So three cheers for the MC folks and their gracious kindness for tolerating so much MC chat. I will not post anything additional on this thread that doesn't pertain the Midland Continental.
1oldgoat I will not post anything additional on this thread that doesn't pertain the Midland Continental.
I will not post anything additional on this thread that doesn't pertain the Midland Continental.
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