At the age of 3, I was singing along to Johnny Cash's version of the classic train song; "The Orange Blossom Special" and that is perhaps what got me into the whole train scene. I've seen paintings of the engine and its coaches and they were all of a diesel engine and I was wondering if anyone knew if there was ever a steam engine version of the Orange Blossom Special.
The biggest question I have is; Was there ever an HO scale OBS engine (and coaches). I've searched the Internet for hours trying to find one and nothing ever comes up. I have only found a Seaboard Air Line Boxcar with "IN THE ROUTE OF THE ORANGE BLOSSOM SPECIAL" which I'm planning to buy, because it is the boxcar Johnny Cash sits upon on the cover of the "Orange Blossom Special" album.
Thanks for your help,
Boxcar Melvin
Well, not that I put that much faith in Wikipedia, but it does appear the train started in the 1920's, and was operated until 1938 as a steam powered / heavyweight train....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Blossom_Special_(train)
Ah, thanks a lot, friend. Would you happen to know if there was ever an HO scale model of the engine? That's what seems to be impossible to find.
Seaboard boxcar in New York on Aug. 24, 1940
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/MikeMacDonald/28NYC.jpg
Wow, a beautiful photo. Thanks.
Wasn't the song first from the late teens or early twenties? Then the passenger train. Then after the passenger train's demise it was a freight moniker. Lots of toys, cartoons, etc. took the name throught the years..
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henry6Wasn't the song first from the late teens or early twenties? Then the passenger train.
Wasn't the song first from the late teens or early twenties? Then the passenger train.
The song was written in 1938. The train named the Orange Blossom Special began in the 1924-1925 winter season.
The Orange Blossom Speical was never a streamlined train with specifically assigned cars. I remember it as a standard all-Pullman heavyweight, with sleepers lettered Pullman, not railroad names, and occasionally a red PRR-assigned Pullman would show up. The diners and observation lounges may have had Seabord or Orange Blossom Speical on the letterboard. I remember it as hauled (during WWII) by a three unit lashup of three E-units, E-6's I think, two A units facing outward bracketing one B-unit. The diesels had the very colorful yellow organge with green and black trim that I remember was used on the first SAL passenger diesels. Engines were changed at Acca yard in Richmond, not at the Main Street Station, and one of the RF&P 4-8-4's, the Virginina Governor series if I remember, or were they named after War-between-theStates heroes? Beutiful steam locomotives. North of Washington of course GG-1's. So you have quite a choice in modeling. A lot of the heavyweight sleepers were all-room cars.
When lightweight sleepers arrived on the SAL, they were added to the previously all-coach Silver Meteor and Silver Star, and the Orange Blossom Speical was discontinued.
Interesting. Thanks, everyone for your help.
In Arthur D Dubin's excellent book "More Classic Trains", on pages 214 and 215 there is an excellent photograph of Seaboard Air Line's class M-2 Mountain number 249 on the "Orange Blossom Special" carrying nameboards with the script name "Orange Blossom Special" in orange on black (according to the caption, it is a B&W photo) above the driving wheels.
The M-2 is generally similar in appearance to the USRA light Mountain type, but has the sand dome mounted significantly further back on the boiler. The M-2 class were built with Vanderbilt tenders with four wheel trucks but were refitted in the 1930s with larger Semi-Vanderbilt tenders with six wheel trucks and 249 has one in this photo.
On pages 222 and 223 there is a photo of M-2 250 as built and eight standard heavyweight cars as used on the "Orange Blossom Special". four of the cars are lettered "Orange Blossom Special" in script on the letterboard at each end of the car near the doors on the Pullmans and similarly located on the diner.
On pages 133 and 134 are illustrated streamlined Pullman built so-called "American Flyer" cars said to be used by Seaboard on the "Orange Blossom Special". This would suggest that the train was not all-Pullman but logos on Seaboard pages state "fully air conditioned" which is consistent with these coach cars.
On page 221 the train is illustrated hauled by an A-B-A set of EMD E-4 units (similar to an E-3 but fitted with connecting doors in the nose) "on the RF&P" in snow (possibly near Alexandria VA station) suggesting that the diesels ran through to Washington DC on at least one occasion.
The book was originally published by Kalmbach but later republished by Interurban Press.
That book and the earlier part "Some Classic Trains" (published by Kalmbach) are really useful for anyone interested in modelling USA passenger trains up to the Amtrak era.
Many of these entries were originally published as single articles in "Trains" magazine, but a search in Kalmbach's index under "Seaboard" failed to find such an issue.
So if you want to model the "Orange Blossom Special", find a copy of Dubin's book, a USRA light Mountain and select some heavyweight cars. In HO, Bachmann Spectrum and Walthers should help.
M636C
Excellent! That's just what I'll do. Thanks a lot for the time you put into this. I'm very grateful.
Boxcar_MelvinAh, thanks a lot, friend. Would you happen to know if there was ever an HO scale model of the engine? That's what seems to be impossible to find.
Well, don't think of "the engine"...I mean, over the years there may have been dozens of different steam engines that pulled the heavyweight train. It wasn't like say the Hiawatha where a particular class of engine was used to just pull that one train.
It is certainly possible that the train had the letterboard designation before WWII, and also possible that some lightweight equipment was used before sufficient quantity was on hand to convert the two streamliners to coach and sleeper. My memories are from WWII, and I suspect that the special letterboard lettering was dropped at that time. The diesels I remember as E-6's were probably the E-4's you mentioned.
Yeah, I get what you're saying. My dad and I refer to engines with I guess the names of the train or line. His favorite is the Daylight Special and he refers to the engine as such. I've seen paintings of an E-6 with "Orange Blossom Special" printed on the side, so I just call it that. I guess what I mean is I'd like to have an E-6 that with the "OBS" decoration.
I often refer back to the book "Through the Heart of the South" by Robert Wayne Johnson for answers about the SAL. I found that the OBS was started in the 1920's and ran until 1953. It was an all Pullman (heavyweight cars) train with service from New York to Florida. In its final years it appears to have stretched to 15 cars. Early on it was pulled by the M-2s and later by E-4s in the Green and Yellow Citrus scheme. It was never equipped with streamlined cars as the railroad did not see that as a good investment for a train that ran four months out of the year. The train was discontinued in 1953.
If you are interested in the streamlined cars, the Silver Meteor ran using similar motive power as a seven car all coach train.
I have seen "Silver Meteor" painted on the sides of locomotives, but I have not seen "Orange Blossom Special."
Hope any of this helps!
There is an excellent book published by the ACL & SCL Railroads Historical Society called "Orange Blossom Special - Florida's Distinguished Winter Train" by Theodore Shrady and Arthur Waldrop, which details the history of the Orange Blossom Special. There are a number of photos of the Special behind steam and diesel, as well as some shots of the cars too.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/sbd3012.jpg
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/sbd3000.jpg
http://ibistro.dos.state.fl.us/uhtbin/cgisirsi/x/x/0/5?library=PHOTO&item_type=PHOTOGRAPH&searchdata1=orange%20blossom%20special
Wow, lots of beautiful pictures there. Jackpot! Thanks a lot!
Ah, so that's how he's going down to Florida and losing his New York Blues. Makes perfect sense now. Thanks and I like your avatar.
I was looking at Walthers.com just now and I do see that Branchline Trains has (from time to time) at least three Pullman cars in HO scale. They are, of course, not currently available, but at least this can point you in a direction.
Blueprint Series 6-3 Pullman Sleeper - Plastic Kit -- Seaboard (Orange Blossom Special) Glen Grag
Blueprint Series 6-3 Pullman Sleeper - Plastic Kit -- Seaboard (Orange Blossom Special) Glen Dale
Blueprint Series 6-3 Pullman Sleeper - Plastic Kit -- Seaboard (Orange Blossom Special) Glen Eagles
They are Walthers part #s 181-5617, 181-5618, and 181-5619 respectivly.
Awesome!
nyc#25Never, never call a PULLMAN a coach!!
You are right. I goofed. I was tired when I wrote that. The Pullmans I cited above are 6-3 Sleeper cars. Pullman cars were luxury cars and should not be confused with simple coaches.
Also, on further review to the original question...
Prior to the mid 40's, Pullman cars were nearly all green with the word "Pullman" as the roadname. The Orange Blossom Special would have pulled several of these. If you are looking to model the train during its steam years, you might get awy with using any of the engines listed in earlier posts and a string of green Pullmans behind it. After the train went diesel (and the Pullman company was broken up) the Pullman cars were sold off to railroads and they painted them to match their passenger schemes. The OBS used a gray and red scheme during those years, with a occasional green Pullman (or diner, or baggage) car slipped in to meet demand.
I said most Pullmans were green, but notably the Pennsy's Pullmans were the same red as their regular cars (including the coaches). This was so everything would match. Some of these red cars would make their way into the OBS's consist during both eras, so if you're putting together a train, slip a could of red Pennsy Pullmans in.
GainesvilleMidland209Prior to the mid 40's, Pullman cars were nearly all green with the word "Pullman" as the roadname. The Orange Blossom Special would have pulled several of these. If you are looking to model the train during its steam years, you might get awy with using any of the engines listed in earlier posts and a string of green Pullmans behind it. After the train went diesel (and the Pullman company was broken up) the Pullman cars were sold off to railroads and they painted them to match their passenger schemes. The OBS used a gray and red scheme during those years, with a occasional green Pullman (or diner, or baggage) car slipped in to meet demand.
Actually, the gray and red scheme that was used on the cars of the Orange Blossom Special was applied in 1951 and those cars were operated on the Special only during the 1951-1952 and 1952-1953 seasons. According to the book "Orange Blossom Special - Florida's Distinguished Winter Train", the painted cars were used on the Bar Harbor in the summer of 1952.
Boxcar_MelvinAh, so that's how he's going down to Florida and losing his New York Blues. Makes perfect sense now. Thanks and I like your avatar.
Thanks. Ironically, the photo of the Skytop was taken in Daytona Beach, Florida. The car is the Dell Rapids and is beautifully restored. The museum where the Dell Rapids resides also has another car, a former Chessie observation that was converted to a private car,
ZephyrOverlandActually, the gray and red scheme that was used on the cars of the Orange Blossom Special was applied in 1951 and those cars were operated on the Special only during the 1951-1952 and 1952-1953 seasons. According to the book "Orange Blossom Special - Florida's Distinguished Winter Train", the painted cars were used on the Bar Harbor in the summer of 1952.
That's good to know. The only thing I could find was that the cars were repainted "after" Pullman was broken up, it just didn't say how much later. I need to find myself a copy of that book. It sounds fascinating.
GainesvilleMidland209ZephyrOverlandActually, the gray and red scheme that was used on the cars of the Orange Blossom Special was applied in 1951 and those cars were operated on the Special only during the 1951-1952 and 1952-1953 seasons. According to the book "Orange Blossom Special - Florida's Distinguished Winter Train", the painted cars were used on the Bar Harbor in the summer of 1952. That's good to know. The only thing I could find was that the cars were repainted "after" Pullman was broken up, it just didn't say how much later. I need to find myself a copy of that book. It sounds fascinating.
The book is available from the ACL & SAL Railroad Historical Society - www.aclsal.org
ZephyrOverlandActually, the gray and red scheme that was used on the cars of the Orange Blossom Special was applied in 1951 and those cars were operated on the Special only during the 1951-1952 and 1952-1953 seasons.
Johnny
The Orange Blossom Special first ran out of Pennsylvania station in New York in 1936. It was an all Pullman consist with a large OBS sign on the rear car. It was pulled by a light Pacific-type Sea Board steam engine with an identifying train herald on the smokebox.
topcopdocThe Orange Blossom Special first ran out of Pennsylvania station in New York in 1936. It was an all Pullman consist with a large OBS sign on the rear car. It was pulled by a light Pacific-type Sea Board steam engine with an identifying train herald on the smokebox. Doc
Doc
The Orange Blossom Special actually began in January, 1925 and only to West Palm Beach. The SAL engines were only used south of Richmond. The Blossom left Pennsylvania Station under electric power to Manhattan Transfer, where a K4 took over to Washington. The trip between Washington and Richmond on the RF&P utilized RF&P power.
The Blossom began running to Miami when the SAL completed the West Palm Beach-Miami extension in January, 1927.
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