BTW...crass plug here.
We still have plenty of the Orange Blossom Special Books available at a good price.
thanks
AB Dean, Director ACL & SAL Historical Society
My Dad was a fan of the Johnny Cash railroad songs. I often heard the Orange Blossom Special but didn't know if it was a real train or not so thx to all for the information.
And also thx for putting up the picture of the boxcar with the name.
My prior reply did not have the right address for the link. The one posted above is now (finally) correct.
Mark
Here's a link to the schedules and consists + other info about the OBS in both 1941 and 1952. Open and scroll down to "Orange Blossom Special".
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track2
ZephyrOverlandBoxcar_MelvinAh, so that's how he's going down to Florida and losing his New York Blues. Makes perfect sense now. Thanks and I like your avatar. Thanks. Ironically, the photo of the Skytop was taken in Daytona Beach, Florida. The car is the Dell Rapids and is beautifully restored. The museum where the Dell Rapids resides also has another car, a former Chessie observation that was converted to a private car,
Boxcar_MelvinAh, so that's how he's going down to Florida and losing his New York Blues. Makes perfect sense now. Thanks and I like your avatar.
Ah, so that's how he's going down to Florida and losing his New York Blues. Makes perfect sense now. Thanks and I like your avatar.
Thanks. Ironically, the photo of the Skytop was taken in Daytona Beach, Florida. The car is the Dell Rapids and is beautifully restored. The museum where the Dell Rapids resides also has another car, a former Chessie observation that was converted to a private car,
That car was actually beautifully restored at least twice. In an late '70s or early '80s issue, Trains magazine had a photo of the restored Dell Rapids on the way to Daytona Beach to a museum sponsored by someone tied with Coke or Pepsi.
In the mid to late '80s I was very surprised to find it in a deteriorated state in a switch yard near the Auto-Train terminal in Sanford, FL along with other old passenger equipment. I have photos from that mid-late '80s visit of the Dell Rapids with very faded paint and broken windows--figured it would end up being scrapped. As a matter of fact, one of the old UP domes from the original AutoTrain was being scrapped on site while I was taking photos.
Very nice to see the car in good condition again.
Jay
daveklepperI think this was before 1929. For PullMAN. Wagner may have used it before Pullman. and Pullman got it when it absorbed Wagner. I believe I have seen pictures of wood sleepers with ice air conditioning. Pullmann had a fleet of steel sleepers by 1910 and the opening of Pennsylvania Station, but may have continued to build woodies until 1914. More likely that 1929 was the date when all or nearly all Pullmans were so equipped.
I think this was before 1929. For PullMAN. Wagner may have used it before Pullman. and Pullman got it when it absorbed Wagner. I believe I have seen pictures of wood sleepers with ice air conditioning. Pullmann had a fleet of steel sleepers by 1910 and the opening of Pennsylvania Station, but may have continued to build woodies until 1914. More likely that 1929 was the date when all or nearly all Pullmans were so equipped.
As I said before, there were various attempts before 1930 to apply air conditioning or at least an air cooling system in Pullmans and other passenger cars. The 1929 date is attributed to the installation of the first successful ice block air conditioning system in a Pullman. By the early 1930's the major push to install air conditioning systems (be it ice block, steam injection or mechanical) in heavyweight Pullmans had begun in earnest.
The information concerning concerning the first successful ice block air conditioning system in a Pullman was obtained from The American Railroad Passenger Car by White and Travel by Pullman by Welsh.
One other comment. We have lots of nostalgia for the great all-Pullman luxury trains of the past, but forget that Pullman service was also excellent and insured comfort for Pullman passengers on ALL trains that carried Pullmans. If the railroad did not provide a diner for all the passengers on the train, a buffet-sleeper or something from Pullman would be included so that passengers would not go hungry. On the worst trains that carried Pullman sleepers, of course the contrast between the comfort of the Pullman and the hardship endured by coach passengers was greatest.
daveklepperBy 1925 most Pullman cars already had ice air-conditioning, but I can imagine that 1935's inauguration of mechanical air-conditioning made southern operations more comfortable for Pullman riders on the Orange Blossom Special. In the days of ice air conditioning, I can imagine that the ice was renewed at Hamlet in both directions at the same time as water was added to car water coolers and the engine refueled or exchanged. The ACL would probably have done the same thing at Florence or Rocky Mount.
By 1925 most Pullman cars already had ice air-conditioning, but I can imagine that 1935's inauguration of mechanical air-conditioning made southern operations more comfortable for Pullman riders on the Orange Blossom Special. In the days of ice air conditioning, I can imagine that the ice was renewed at Hamlet in both directions at the same time as water was added to car water coolers and the engine refueled or exchanged. The ACL would probably have done the same thing at Florence or Rocky Mount.
Actually, Pullman first successfully used an ice air conditioning system in 1929. There were several attempts of using ice for air conditioning purposes going back to 1855 with Mann sleepers. Between 1911 and 1926 the Santa Fe used an ice "air cleansing" system in a number of their dining cars. In the early 1930's, successful mechanical and steam injector systems were developed and by this time the push was on to install air conditioning in passenger cars utilizing one of the three technologies mentioned.
Before the advent of air conditioning, a number of Pullmans utilized air scoops installed outside the car windows to get some air circulation in the car.
DeggestyAs to the ad in the Palm Beach Post extolling the inauguration of the new train, did you note the statement at the bottom of the equipment listing–"This service will be materially improved by the latter part of February"? Perhaps the new track still neeeded some settling?
As to the ad in the Palm Beach Post extolling the inauguration of the new train, did you note the statement at the bottom of the equipment listing–"This service will be materially improved by the latter part of February"? Perhaps the new track still neeeded some settling?
The new line, from Coleman, Florida to West Palm Beach, a distance of over 200 miles, was built in nine months, using cinder ballast. This line was built quickly to take advantage of the Florida boom traffic that existed at that time and to take some traffic away from the Florida East Coast, which was having difficulties handling traffic on its single track line. Going back to the ad for the Orange Blossom Special, note that the train was scheduled to operate between Jacksonville and West Palm Beach in 13 hours. The FEC was operating trains between Jacksonville and Miami (75 miles beyond West Palm Beach) in 13 hours. When the FEC completed double tracking its line in September, 1926, it reduced Jacksonville-Miami running times to 11 hours and eventually to 9 hours by 1929. So to be competitive with the FEC, the Seaboard literally had to immediately rebuild its east coast line to handle faster trains, as well as add additional capacity to support additional traffic.
Going back to the SAL ad, note that the ad mentions coaches on the Orange Blossom Special. For that initial season, the Special had coaches between Jacksonville and St. Petersburg/West Palm Beach. This was not repeated in subsequent seasons.
ZephyrOverland I have some links to some ads and articles about the Orange Blossom Special. This link shows an ad for the initial schedule of the Special - there is also an SAL ad about the Special and the completion of SAL's new route to West Palm Beach on the bottom of the previous page (Palm Beach Post Jan 15, 1925): http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=H8IiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=T7YFAAAAIBAJ&dq=orange%20blossom%20special&pg=3121%2C3032578 As for the inauguration of air conditioning on the Special, here is a link to an article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette concerning the inauguration of air conditioning on the Special (Dec 28, 1933):http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=SdEMAAAAIBAJ&sjid=L2kDAAAAIBAJ&dq=orange%20blossom%20special%20air%20conditioned&pg=2401%2C1179090
I have some links to some ads and articles about the Orange Blossom Special.
This link shows an ad for the initial schedule of the Special - there is also an SAL ad about the Special and the completion of SAL's new route to West Palm Beach on the bottom of the previous page (Palm Beach Post Jan 15, 1925):
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=H8IiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=T7YFAAAAIBAJ&dq=orange%20blossom%20special&pg=3121%2C3032578
As for the inauguration of air conditioning on the Special, here is a link to an article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette concerning the inauguration of air conditioning on the Special (Dec 28, 1933):
Thanks, ZO, for your further research. As you commented yesterday, "Beebe's books are full of atmosphere, but sometimes at the expense of facts."
To quote from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, "...leaving New York, January 2, [1934] at 12:30 p. m. Arrival in Miami will be at 6:55 p.m., the day following and St. Petersburg the same day at 5:35 p.m." This second sentence may give the impression that the train reached St. Pete the same day it left New York; apparently newspaper writers of 8 years ago also did not carefully read what they had written.
There is an interesting item in the next column about the new coaches that the L&N was going to begin operating on the Pan American–coaches that were similar to those used by the C&O on its through mainline trains, with one and two seating; the seats reclined and could be rotated.
Johnny
topcopdoc You are correct I missed page 199 where it said,"it made its maiden run on Novemer 21, 1925." On page 200 it mentioned 'its first run in 1936" but I think they were referring to air conditioned cars. Doc
You are correct I missed page 199 where it said,"it made its maiden run on Novemer 21, 1925." On page 200 it mentioned 'its first run in 1936" but I think they were referring to air conditioned cars.
Doc
To quote Messrs. Beebe and Clegg: "...The Orange Blossom's first run with completely air-conditioned equipment out of Pennsylvania Station in New York in 1936...."
Beebe's books are full of atmosphere, but sometimes at the expense of facts. The November date you note is often given but in reality the Blossom appeared midway during the 1924-1925 winter season and replaced another train, the All-Florida Special. A major motivation for the establishment of the Orange Blossom Special was to give attention to Seaboard's new line to West Palm Beach. Until this time through SAL West Palm Beach and Miami cars were handled on Florida East Coast Railway trains to and from Jacksonville.
topcopdoc My information (including photos) was from the book "The Trains We Rode", published 1990, 976 pages by Lucius Beebee and Charles Clegg. Doc
My information (including photos) was from the book "The Trains We Rode", published 1990, 976 pages by Lucius Beebee and Charles Clegg.
[Edit: correct pronoun]
topcopdocThe Orange Blossom Special first ran out of Pennsylvania station in New York in 1936. It was an all Pullman consist with a large OBS sign on the rear car. It was pulled by a light Pacific-type Sea Board steam engine with an identifying train herald on the smokebox. Doc
The Orange Blossom Special first ran out of Pennsylvania station in New York in 1936. It was an all Pullman consist with a large OBS sign on the rear car. It was pulled by a light Pacific-type Sea Board steam engine with an identifying train herald on the smokebox.
The Orange Blossom Special actually began in January, 1925 and only to West Palm Beach. The SAL engines were only used south of Richmond. The Blossom left Pennsylvania Station under electric power to Manhattan Transfer, where a K4 took over to Washington. The trip between Washington and Richmond on the RF&P utilized RF&P power.
The Blossom began running to Miami when the SAL completed the West Palm Beach-Miami extension in January, 1927.
ZephyrOverlandActually, the gray and red scheme that was used on the cars of the Orange Blossom Special was applied in 1951 and those cars were operated on the Special only during the 1951-1952 and 1952-1953 seasons.
GainesvilleMidland209ZephyrOverlandActually, the gray and red scheme that was used on the cars of the Orange Blossom Special was applied in 1951 and those cars were operated on the Special only during the 1951-1952 and 1952-1953 seasons. According to the book "Orange Blossom Special - Florida's Distinguished Winter Train", the painted cars were used on the Bar Harbor in the summer of 1952. That's good to know. The only thing I could find was that the cars were repainted "after" Pullman was broken up, it just didn't say how much later. I need to find myself a copy of that book. It sounds fascinating.
ZephyrOverlandActually, the gray and red scheme that was used on the cars of the Orange Blossom Special was applied in 1951 and those cars were operated on the Special only during the 1951-1952 and 1952-1953 seasons. According to the book "Orange Blossom Special - Florida's Distinguished Winter Train", the painted cars were used on the Bar Harbor in the summer of 1952.
That's good to know. The only thing I could find was that the cars were repainted "after" Pullman was broken up, it just didn't say how much later. I need to find myself a copy of that book. It sounds fascinating.
The book is available from the ACL & SAL Railroad Historical Society - www.aclsal.org
GainesvilleMidland209Prior to the mid 40's, Pullman cars were nearly all green with the word "Pullman" as the roadname. The Orange Blossom Special would have pulled several of these. If you are looking to model the train during its steam years, you might get awy with using any of the engines listed in earlier posts and a string of green Pullmans behind it. After the train went diesel (and the Pullman company was broken up) the Pullman cars were sold off to railroads and they painted them to match their passenger schemes. The OBS used a gray and red scheme during those years, with a occasional green Pullman (or diner, or baggage) car slipped in to meet demand.
Prior to the mid 40's, Pullman cars were nearly all green with the word "Pullman" as the roadname. The Orange Blossom Special would have pulled several of these. If you are looking to model the train during its steam years, you might get awy with using any of the engines listed in earlier posts and a string of green Pullmans behind it. After the train went diesel (and the Pullman company was broken up) the Pullman cars were sold off to railroads and they painted them to match their passenger schemes. The OBS used a gray and red scheme during those years, with a occasional green Pullman (or diner, or baggage) car slipped in to meet demand.
Actually, the gray and red scheme that was used on the cars of the Orange Blossom Special was applied in 1951 and those cars were operated on the Special only during the 1951-1952 and 1952-1953 seasons. According to the book "Orange Blossom Special - Florida's Distinguished Winter Train", the painted cars were used on the Bar Harbor in the summer of 1952.
nyc#25Never, never call a PULLMAN a coach!!
You are right. I goofed. I was tired when I wrote that. The Pullmans I cited above are 6-3 Sleeper cars. Pullman cars were luxury cars and should not be confused with simple coaches.
Also, on further review to the original question...
I said most Pullmans were green, but notably the Pennsy's Pullmans were the same red as their regular cars (including the coaches). This was so everything would match. Some of these red cars would make their way into the OBS's consist during both eras, so if you're putting together a train, slip a could of red Pennsy Pullmans in.
Awesome!
I was looking at Walthers.com just now and I do see that Branchline Trains has (from time to time) at least three Pullman cars in HO scale. They are, of course, not currently available, but at least this can point you in a direction.
Blueprint Series 6-3 Pullman Sleeper - Plastic Kit -- Seaboard (Orange Blossom Special) Glen Grag
Blueprint Series 6-3 Pullman Sleeper - Plastic Kit -- Seaboard (Orange Blossom Special) Glen Dale
Blueprint Series 6-3 Pullman Sleeper - Plastic Kit -- Seaboard (Orange Blossom Special) Glen Eagles
They are Walthers part #s 181-5617, 181-5618, and 181-5619 respectivly.
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter