So far RC has 6 correct and NW 8 correct. Should have noted that the Dorchester tunnel formerly connecting Boylson Sta. on the Green with a portal at Broaway and Tremont and used for about 60 years by the City Pont - N.Station and Eggleston - N. Station subway-surface cars, including PCC's, did not have an intermediate station. And NW, you should have noted that the existing "Park Avenue Vehicular Tunnel had conduit track. Now can you name the two/three Washington, DC, streetcar tunnels that also had conduit track, each with station? The 4th & Madison streetcar line that used this subway was the first to go in the General Motors bustitution of the Green Lines in Manhattan, 1935 or 1936.
YOu may be correct about Kingsbridge Road and station on the "C" streetcar and the Concourse. I'll count that as correct. Also correct about the Queensboro Br.and 2nd Avenue, subway terminal for New York State's very last streetcar line, running into 1957 using ex-Befdord, MA Osgood Bradley "automotive" design cars, similar to Brill Master Units. No crosstown streetcar existed at 170th and Concourse. No station for either the T (for Treemont Avenue), or the subway at Burnside. (There is one on at Jerome which lacks a Treemont Sta.) At Treemont the Z (for Zoo?) 180th crosstown had an arrangement like 167th. The Z, 167th X, Ogdon Avenue, and University Avenue all shared the Washington Bridge to Manhattan and West 181 to a double-crossover double-track stub terminal at B'way. They kept wire on W181 but crossed the conduit T 3rd and Amst at Amsterdam Avenue just west of the Bridge and one could transfer to the conduit K running N-S on Broadway.
Also should note that at Bergen St., Brooklyn, F is on one level and G on the other, both are in use, with the F switching to the local track south of the station. Doesn't count. But one very obvious is near by, and visiting the station without transit service today is easy as pie.
daveklepperNow can you name the two/three Washington, DC, streetcar tunnels that also had conduit track, each with station?
Dupont Circle Tunnels and Bureau of Engraving Tunnel.
daveklepperBut one very obvious is near by, and visiting the station without transit service today is easy as pie.
Transit Museum (Court Street)?
You got them and now total 11.so you do have the next question to ask. And counting rc's we have a total of 17. We can add the upper middle level, the upper underground level, station of the existing Broadway station on the Boston Red Line, which had the City Point - Dudley via Broadway tracks on the surfance, and the Bay View streetcar on the upper undergound station parallel with the Red Line below. The station still exists, although streetcar service through it was abandoned about 2 years after opening. It is well used for fire and emergency response training, with older sample vehicles within. That makes 18. Or 19 if counting DuPont Circle as two. (Each track had its own tunnel and station.)
Thanks, Dave.
In Washington State, there was an interurban in two disconnected segments. The northern segment had a long trestle and was nicknamed "The trolley that went to sea". Name this interurban.
I believe the Yakima Valley Transportation Co. had two disconnected routes. According to the 1930 OG's one ran between Yakima and Wiley City and the other between Yakimato and Speyers. I've searched Google looking for Yakimato and all that comes up are Yakima sites so I'm inclined to believe Yakimato was/is a community within the city of Yakima.
Mark
I seem to remember that PugetSound Electric had an isolated line north of Seattle (near Bellingham?), separate from its third rail Seattle Tacoma line.
rcdrye I seem to remember that PugetSound Electric had an isolated line north of Seattle (near Bellingham?), separate from its third rail Seattle Tacoma line.
Puget Sound Electric is not listed in the Jan 1930 OG as it was abandoned in 1927 or '28. Jan 1910 is my next earlier OG and it shows the PSE main between Tacoma and Seattle with several branches connected to the mainline at Tacoma and a branch to Renton running off the main at Renton Jct. The line was extended from Seattle to Everett around 1910. Next the PSE either built or acquired an existing line between Mount Vernon and Bellingham. Construction of a connecting link between Everett and Mount Vernon was started but never completed. As Rob has suggested this left the Mount Vernon-Bellingham segment disconnected from the rest of the system.
Having found this info I suspect Rob is correct in identifying the Puget Sound Electric as the answer to this question.
Rob gets it. The name I was looking for is Pacific Northwest Traction, but since they were owned by the same company, Stone and Webster, I'll count it. He also correctly described the disconnected segment with a 4 mile long trestle. Stone and Webster had grand plans of creating a Olympia-Vancouver B.C. interurban. Perhaps we could have had a major interurban like the North Shore had all the lines been completed. One of the great what ifs...
Rob, your turn.
After I posted my last reply I got home and looked up Washington state Interurbans in my ancient copy of "The Interurban Era". I was sure I had got it wrong until you pointed out the Stone and Webster common ownership. Good to have you in the forum, NorthWest !
This state capital had three different companies providing streetcar service until near the end of WWII, when all of them were sold to a new operator, and converted to bus soon after the war. Two of the lines were operated by interurban companies using city cars, with the third, larger system operated by a power company.
Easy, Sacamento California, most lines operated by Pacific Gas and Electric, Sacramento Northern one line, Central Callifornia Traction one line, new owner Sacramento Transit owned by National City Lines. The SN and CCT lines were combined into one before bustitution. I think NCL took over in 1944.
Correct. Last Sacramento cars ran in 1947.
Sacramento Northen Chico Birney cars ran into the 1950's, including an extension built in WWII. Lat nickle fare streetcars.
Name all post WWII elevated transit system sructures long enough to include at least one station.
NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, LIRR (several branches, especially where electrification was installed new), Miami, ...umm how far post WWII you talken' about here?
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Don't forget BART, WMATA (D.C) and MARTA (Atlanta)... Chicago had short sections (South Side -> Dan Ryan, station at Cermak) and long (Orange Line, most of the way to Midway Airport). Chicago also modified and more recently completely rebuilt the Paulina connector including new structure over the (then) Congress Expressway and the ramp to Lake St. which was plenty long enough to include stations but doesn't have any after the Madison station was removed in the 1960s. PAT even has some new elevated structure connecting to the former PRR "Mon" bridge in Pittsburgh. The new L.A. and Seattle light rail lines have lots of what could be considered elevated structure.
Most not specific enough . Hint: One structure is somewhat of a replacement for a classic one nearby including a station essentialliy at the terminal of the classic one that was torn down almost 60 years ago.
I was surprised to learn that the Puget Sound Electric was 3rd rail and wonder why it was built that way instead of the usual trolley wire or catenary. According to the Jan 1910 OG the total mileage of its mainline and branches was 117 miles. This doesn't even include the Seattle-Everett and Mount Vernon-Bellingham lines which were built later. Adding these latter segments the PSE total mileage probably became at least 140 miles making it, I believe, the longest 3rd rail interurban in the US. It's also interesting to note that the 1910 OG contains the note, "PARLOR CARS attached to all trains" which had to be rather exceptional in that day and time.
Mark, I'm not sure why the PSE used third rail, they used overhead wire in urban areas. The later built lines were both wire. The reason why they attached parlor cars is likely the competition: they had at least three railroads operating the same service.
Back to Dave's question:
Don't they have to be 50 years old or older, so before November 1963?
narig01Don't forget the Key Systems route into Transbay Terminal off the Bay Bridge. Rgds IGN
I've always tended to think of the Key System and the Hudson & Manhattan as being "transit" but they actually fit the description of an interurban. The CA&E was a true interurban and, as far as I know, was the second longest 3rd rail one, exceeded only by the Puget Sound Electric.
Mare! H&M is and always was rapid transit. No single car operation--always four or more cars multiple unit operated, with at least one conductor plus a motorman; no fares collected on train--all by turnstyle entry; no street operation-- all private right of way, all stops at high platform stations.
One odd "feature" of the Puget Sound Electric was the tendency of its third rail to travel - crews were always adding and removing sections. This is especially odd since the line was single track and used in both directions.
The northan portion of Sacrament Northern, from Sacramento to Chico,was mostly third rail with wire interruptions.
H&M legally was a railroad, but actually heavy rapid transit. PATCO was legally an interurban but actually heavy rapid transit. Now?
Dave, congrats on hitting the big 7500 post!
Later (post 1950) transit systems are so few in number in the US that it is maybe best to classify each in its own category, as they are all unique. The H&M and later PATH I classify as being heavy rail, despite the official status. PATCO as well. Then there is hybrids like the MBTA Green Line. It is all so complicated.
I like rail traction.
daveklepper Most not specific enough . Hint: One structure is somewhat of a replacement for a classic one nearby including a station essentialliy at the terminal of the classic one that was torn down almost 60 years ago.
And now - yanking the thread back to its original purpose (Thanks NorthWest for posting all the PSE stuff together!)... Anyone have an answer for Dave?
I just realized that my question violates the purpose of the the thread! Which is to discuss railroad matters 50 years ago or so or more. And here I was asking for MODERN elevated structures. So, after thanking one and all for politeness in not putting my feet to the fire for this obvious Nono, I repharse the question for modern elevated structures that effectively replace ones torn down many years ago or other electric transit facilties, not necessarily elevateds, that served the same areas.
I will give one example: The modern Miami rapid transit system is mostly on elevated structure and replaces the streetcar network that served the same Miami area in the "classic" era, including (getting specific) the Conanut Grove streetcar system, with the southern end of the structure located there,.
daveklepperI repharse the question for modern elevated structures that effectively replace ones torn down many years ago or other electric transit facilties, not necessarily elevateds, that served the same areas.
1. Parts of the MARTA system are elevated, and some replace Georgia Railway and Power streetcar lines. This includes the Red Line, which is close to the former Peachtree Road line.
2. The LACMTA has several segments:
The Blue Line has some elevated running south of downtown LA, and essentially duplicates (and operates on some old ROW) of the PE Long Beach line.
The Expo Line also has elevated running, and replaces the PE Santa Monica Air Line.
The Gold Line to Pasadena is also close to a former PE line, and has elevated running.
The Green Line is elevated and is close to several originally PE lines.
3. Elevated BART lines operate where Sacramento Northern lines were.
4. Washington DC Metro has elevated sections. Replaces DC transit
5. Link Light Rail has elevated sections that are pretty close to sections of the old recently discussed PSE ROW.
Go and ask the next question. But I am shocked that Henry did not come up with Public Service of New Jersey's old Hoboken Elevated which extended to Jersey City and terminated at the Lackawanna Terminal, replaced by Hudson-Bergan NJT Light Rail - elevated at the Lackawanna Terminal. Henry, where were you?
On heavy rail instead of light rail...off my trolley, I guess! How can one remember something he only rode once...and when he was no older than five at that!. But I do remember now...but because I viewed the trestle hundreds of times!
The Milwaukee Road had only one direct track connection to Canada, on a small disconnected segment in Washington, initially served only by car float. It was originally built by another company in the 1800s before being purchased by the Milwaukee. Name this railroad.
Northwest:
I have a 1948 OG on CD and that shows an isolated piece of the MILW on the Olympic Peninsula starting at Port Angeles (I could not make out the end point). A car float operated from the mainland to Port Angeles. I believe I read that a very light engine was used on that line.
Digging further, I discovered that the MILW connected with the Port Angeles Western RR at Port Angeles.
The Puget Sound Navigation Company operated a car ferry to Victoria, BC.
Another question is why the MILW would purchase that property due to the extra cost of operating a car float?
Ed Burns
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