Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

[daveklepper]

I suspect that the reason the New Haven public schedules don't show the northbound cars is that the instructions were simply to switch them to the first convenient available through Boston train at Washington.  If timing permitted putting the northbound car on an earlier train, this was done.

 

Again, top speed pre-WWII please?

[Deggesty]

daveklepper

I suspect that the reason the New Haven public schedules don't show the northbound cars is that the instructions were simply to switch them to the first convenient available through Boston train at Washington.  If timing permitted putting the northbound car on an earlier train, this was done.

It's possible that if the Orange Blossom Special arrived in Washington earlier than 9:45, the PRR may have put the Boston car on the Colonial, which left at 10:00, instead of waiting until noon for the Senator. The train did run non-stop from Richmond, and was given 2:45 (the best time shown from the Main Street station; 116.5 miles to Washington) from arrival in Richmond to arrival in Washington (no passengers taken in Richmond). I do not know how long it would have taken to cut the car off the rear, move it to the upper level track, add it to the Colonial, couple the engine  on, and make the brake test.

As to the Miamian, it was due into Washington at  10:40, so the Senator was the first Boston train possible.

[Deggesty]

daveklepper

Again, top speed pre-WWII please?

Here is Dave's question, which apparently has been forgotten with the further discussion of the Boston-Florida throguh cars.

NEW QUESTION:    Before US entry into WWII in 7 December 1941, what was the fastest regularly scheduled station-to-station train in the USA, the locaton of this speed run, and of course the railroad, the train, and the power and consist used

[al-in-chgo]

I'll make a WAG just go get the ball started.  I think I read somewhere that Milwaukee Road's Hiawatha averaged around 65 mph all the way from Chicago to Mpls-St. Paul.  Perhaps some intermediate strech averaged out a lot higher, like CUS to Sturtevant, or Delaplain(sp?) to LaCrosse?  Since I don't know the stretch I won't guess the speed. (And I guess a lot of us have heard of the legendary "Slow to 90" sign.)  Motive power was streamlined Hudsons but other classes too -- streamlined Pacifics? 

My second guess would be the IC steam-hauled trains from Central Station in Chicago (which no longer exists and is covered in condos) down to Champaign-Urbana.  The advantage here might be that the Illinois Central actually terminated some runs in Champaign, while others went farther south to Carbondale and of course, a few all the way to New Orleans.

(I don't know if this is significant because the term "station to station" confuses me a bit -- I'm guessing it means one depot to another but not necessarily an entire scheduled run, railhead to terminal.)   But I'm guessing the home stretch on flat-out prairie had a good average.  So Central Station/Chgo to Champaign or perhaps Homewood to Champaign probably had a very healthy average. 

I'm just assuming the top speed doesn't apply to PRR varnish hauled by GG-1's.  Too many stops and not the first-rate straight-line prairie tracks parts of the Midwest used to have. The G's could probably have cruised at 90 if not for the above conditions, but I doubt they could hit a hundred mph hauling much of anything, nor were they designed to..  -  al 

 

 

 

 

[passengerfan]

With tax season really beginning to heat up and I don't hav time to do any research at the moment will take a couple of WAGs at it. How about the Super Chief between Garden City and somewhere else in Kansas. Also the Twin City Zephyrs along the Mississippi put in a pretty good show.

Al - in - Stockton

[daveklepper]

I think Al is on the right track, and pehaps he will do the research to be really specific.   But concerning the GG-1's, don't exclude them.   They were capable of indeed did haul sixteen car mostly heavyweight trains at 100 miles an hour, and even faster.   I rode them, and timed them.  And, unlke the New Haven' curvey line with lots of speed restrictions, even today, between Woodlawn Junction and New Haven, the corridor south of New York has lots of long straight stretches, and is only the old catenary that prevents full Acela top-speed operation.

 

I did ride the UA Turbo at a steady 110mph between Portchester and New Rochelle once, however.  It did not stop in either location, running non-stop from NH to NY.   But the question is pre-WWII.

[CG-Rider]

oregon-rochelle on the '' Q ''

Homewood Champaign on IC

 

Cheers

 

[KCSfan]

Homewood was not a station stop for the IC's through trains in pre-WW2  times. With the exception of the Champaign local they all ran non-stop between 63rd St. in Chicago and Kankakee. The Green Diamond averaged 69.7 mph between Kankakee and Clinton, a distance of 92.7 miles. I'm pretty sure this was the fastest station to station time on the IC prior to the inauguration of the City of Miami in 1940. I don't have a 1940 or '41 OG. If someone else has one for either of those years, check the CofM's times between Kankakee and Champaign and between Champaign and Effingham, one of which will be the fastest pre-war schedule of any IC train.

Post-war the City of Miami ran the 71.4 miles between Champaign and Effingham (with an intermediate flag stop at Mattoon) in 53 minutes for an average speed of 80.8 mph. I expect the pre-war schedule was just about as fast. 

I believe the Burlington's fastest station to station time was between East Dubuque and Prarie du Chiene, a distance of 54 miles. Both the Morning and Afternoon Zephyrs had schedules that averaged 72 mph between these two station stops.

Mark

[KCSfan]

Oops, I was wrong about the Burlington's fastest schedule in my prior posting. I overlooked the Denver Zephyr which ran the 124 miles between Aurora and Galesburg in 1 hr - 36 min for an average speed of 77.5 mph.

Mark

[Deggesty]

KCSfan

Homewood was not a station stop for the IC's through trains in pre-WW2  times. With the exception of the Champaign local they all ran non-stop between 63rd St. in Chicago and Kankakee. The Green Diamond averaged 69.7 mph between Kankakee and Clinton, a distance of 92.7 miles. I'm pretty sure this was the fastest station to station time on the IC prior to the inauguration of the City of Miami in 1940. I don't have a 1940 or '41 OG. If someone else has one for either of those years, check the CofM's times between Kankakee and Champaign and between Champaign and Effingham, one of which will be the fastest pre-war schedule of any IC train.

Post-war the City of Miami ran the 71.4 miles between Champaign and Effingham (with an intermediate flag stop at Mattoon) in 53 minutes for an average speed of 80.8 mph. I expect the pre-war schedule was just about as fast. 

I believe the Burlington's fastest station to station time was between East Dubuque and Prarie du Chiene, a distance of 54 miles. Both the Morning and Afternoon Zephyrs had schedules that averaged 72 mph between these two station stops.

Mark

January, 1941

CM Kankakee-Champaign: 75 minutes for 72.0 miles; Champaign-Mattoon: 45 minutes for 44.5 miles; Mattoon- Effingham: 27 minutes for 26.9 miles. All these stops are conditional (take passengers for Jackson, Tenn. or beyond). Not particularly swift at all.

MZ East Dubuque-Prairie du Chien: 39 minutes for 55 miles (the Q did not put tenths of miles in its timetables)–85 mph.

[KCSfan]

Deggesty

January, 1941

CM

Kankakee-Champaign: 75 minutes for 72.0 miles; Champaign-Mattoon: 45 minutes for 44.5 miles; Mattoon- Effingham: 27 minutes for 26.9 miles. All these stops are conditional (take passengers for Jackson, Tenn. or beyond). Not particularly swift at all.

Johnny,

I am really shocked by those 1941 speeds of the City if Miami. I expected them to be close to the much faster post war schedules. Champaign to Effingham was the IC's racetrack. It was double track, almost straight as an arrow and, IIRC, had in-cab signallaing the entire way. I rode both the City of Miami and the City of New Orleans over that line several times in the early '50's. I know for a fact the CofNO would regularly hit 100+ mph over parts of the route and believe the CofM was equally, or nearly, as fast.

The "Q" schedules I cited were those listed in my 1937 OG. The schedules of the Morning and Afternoon Zephyrs apparently were speeded up sometime between then and 1941.

Mark

[ZephyrOverland]

KCSfan

Deggesty

January, 1941

CM Kankakee-Champaign: 75 minutes for 72.0 miles; Champaign-Mattoon: 45 minutes for 44.5 miles; Mattoon- Effingham: 27 minutes for 26.9 miles. All these stops are conditional (take passengers for Jackson, Tenn. or beyond). Not particularly swift at all.

Johnny,

I am really shocked by those 1941 speeds of the City if Miami. I expected them to be close to the much faster post war schedules. Champaign to Effingham was the IC's racetrack. It was double track, almost straight as an arrow and, IIRC, had in-cab signallaing the entire way. I rode both the City of Miami and the City of New Orleans over that line several times in the early '50's. I know for a fact the CofNO would regularly hit 100+ mph over parts of the route and believe the CofM was equally, or nearly, as fast.

 

I'm not necessarily surprised of the relatively leisurely schedule of the City of Miami in Illinois.  Don't forget, at this time the City of Miami was operated along with the South Wind and Dixie Flagler as a daily Chicago-Miami service utilizing three different routes between Chicago and Jacksonville on their way to Miami.  They had the same endpoint-to-endpoint arrival and departure times but the mileage each train had to traverse between Chicago and Jacksonville was different.  I don't have the exact mileages but I think the Dixie Flager had to maintain a higher average speed to maintain the schedule all three trains were operating on. 

[Deggesty]

ZephyrOverland

I'm not necessarily surprised of the relatively leisurely schedule of the City of Miami in Illinois.  Don't forget, at this time the City of Miami was operated along with the South Wind and Dixie Flagler as a daily Chicago-Miami service utilizing three different routes between Chicago and Jacksonville on their way to Miami.  They had the same endpoint-to-endpoint arrival and departure times but the mileage each train had to traverse between Chicago and Jacksonville was different.  I don't have the exact mileages but I think the Dixie Flager had to maintain a higher average speed to maintain the schedule all three trains were operating on. 

Yes, each route was different as to miles covered. Here are the distances, from the January, 1941, Guide.

South Wind (PRR, Chicago-Louisville; L&N, Louisville-Montgomery; ACL, Montgomery-Jacksonville): 1,183.2

City of Miami (IC, Chicago-Birmingham; CG Birmingham-Albany, ACL, Albany-Jacksonville): 1,127.9

Dixie Flagler (C&EI, Chicago-Evansville; L&N, Evansville-Nashville; NC&SL, Nashville-Atlanta; AB&C, Atlanta-Waycross; ACL, Waycross-Jacksonville): 1079.3

[ZephyrOverland]

Deggesty

ZephyrOverland

I'm not necessarily surprised of the relatively leisurely schedule of the City of Miami in Illinois.  Don't forget, at this time the City of Miami was operated along with the South Wind and Dixie Flagler as a daily Chicago-Miami service utilizing three different routes between Chicago and Jacksonville on their way to Miami.  They had the same endpoint-to-endpoint arrival and departure times but the mileage each train had to traverse between Chicago and Jacksonville was different.  I don't have the exact mileages but I think the Dixie Flager had to maintain a higher average speed to maintain the schedule all three trains were operating on. 

Yes, each route was different as to miles covered. Here are the distances, from the January, 1941, Guide.

South Wind (PRR, Chicago-Louisville; L&N, Louisville-Montgomery; ACL, Montgomery-Jacksonville): 1,183.2

City of Miami (IC, Chicago-Birmingham; CG Birmingham-Albany, ACL, Albany-Jacksonville): 1,127.9

Dixie Flagler (C&EI, Chicago-Evansville; L&N, Evansville-Nashville; NC&SL, Nashville-Atlanta; AB&C, Atlanta-Waycross; ACL, Waycross-Jacksonville): 1079.3

 

I stand corrected concerning the average miles per hour each train needed to make to maintain the overall schedule.  The South Wind had to maintain the highest average miles per hour between Chicago and Jacksonville.

 

[daveklepper]

 Johnny, you are clearly the winner with your Zephyr timing.  And I think this is the correct top speed.  But, in addition to checking the next question, please check times and miles for the Super Chief and El Cap east of La Junta.

[wanswheel]

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,524 Minneapolis

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,520 LaCrosse

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,243 LaCrosse

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,255 LaCrosse

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,254 Coach

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,258 Coach

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,248 Child

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,249 Twins?

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,257 Dining

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,424 Dining

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,247 Waiter

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,261 Waiters

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,423 Dome

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,401 Dome

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,402 Dome

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,253 Dome

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,259 Dome

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,264 Dome

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,260 Parlor

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,263 Parlor

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,403 Cards

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,250 Schlitz

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,431 Chicago

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,432 Chicago

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,22 Chicago

http://collections.carli.illinois.edu/u?/nby_rrlife,256 Obs

[Deggesty]

daveklepper

 Johnny, you are clearly the winner with your Zephyr timing.  And I think this is the correct top speed.  But, in addition to checking the next question, please check times and miles for the Super Chief and El Cap east of La Junta.

The best time in January of 1941 between Dodge & La Junta was the westbound Super Chief's 2:39 for the 202.4 miles = 76.4 mph. Eastbound, both trains were given 2:35, which gave an average speed of 78.3 mph.

New question: In January of 1941, there were 15 trains with through service between Chicago and Florida points. Name them and their routes. (In January of 1971, there was 1 train with through service between Chicago and Florida points.)

[ZephyrOverland]

Deggesty

New question: In January of 1941, there were 15 trains with through service between Chicago and Florida points. Name them and their routes. (In January of 1971, there was 1 train with through service between Chicago and Florida points.)

 

City of Miami    IC Chicago-Birmingham
                         CoG Birnimgham-Albany
                         ACL Albany-Jacksonville
                         FEC Jacksonville-Miami


Dixieland       C&EI CHI-Evansvillke
                       LN Evansville-Nashville
                      NC&StL Nasahville-Atlanta
                      AB&C  Atlanta-Waycross
                      ACL Waycross-Jacksonville


Dixie Flagler    C&EI - CHI-Evansville
                        LN Evansville-NAshville
                        NC&StL Nashville-Atlanta
                        AB&C Atlanta-Waycross
                        ACL Waycross-Jacksonville
                        FEC Jacksonville-Miami


Dixie Flyer    C&EI Chicago-Evansville
                      LN Evansville-Nashville
                      NC&StL Nashville-Atlanta
                      CoG Atlanta-Albany
                      ACL Albany-Jacksonville


Dixie Limited    C&EI Chicago-Evansville
                          LN Evansville-Nashville
                          NC&StL Nashville-Atlanta
                          CoG Atlanta-Albany
                          ACL Albany-Jacksonville

Flamingo    PRR Chicago-Cincinnati
                   L&N Cincinnati-Atlanta
                   CoG Atlanta-Albany
                   ACL Albany-Jacksonville
(Through sleeper only CHI-JAX)


Florida Arrow      PRR Chicago-Louisville
                            L&N Louisville-Montgomery
                            ACL Montgomery-Jacksonville


Florida Sunbeam     B4 Chicago-Cinicnnati
                                SR Cincinnati-Hampton
                                SAL Hampton-Miami
(Through CHI-Miami sleeper only)

    
Floridan    IC Chicago-Birmingham
                 CoG Birnimgham-Albany
                 ACL Albany-Jacksonville


Ponce de Leon    B4 Chicago-Cincinnati
                            SR Cincinnati-Jacksonville
(Through CHI-JAX sleeper only)


Royal Palm    B4 Chicago-Cincinnati
                      SR Cincinnati-Jacksonville
(Through CHI-JAX sleeper only)
        

Seminole    IC Chicago-Birmingham
                   CoG Birnimgham-Albany
                   ACL Albany-Jacksonville


South Wind    PRR Chicasgo-Louisville
                       L&N Louisville-Montgomery
                      ACL Montgomery-Jacksonville
                      FEC Jacksonville-Miami

Southland - East Coast Section    PRR Chicago-Cincinnati
                                                    L&N Cincinnati-Atlanta
                                                    CoG Atlanta-Albany
                                                    ACL Albany-Jacksonville    


Southland - West Coast Section    PRR Chicago-Cincinnati
                                                      L&N Cincinnati-Atlanta
                                                      CoG Atlanta-Albany
                                                      ACL Albany-St. Petersburg/Tampa-Ft. Meyers
(East and West Coast sections ran separately south of Cincinnati - West Coast section carried only through CHI-St. Petersburg and Chicago-Ft. Meyers sleepers)

[Deggesty]

ZephyrOverland

Deggesty

New question: In January of 1941, there were 15 trains with through service between Chicago and Florida points. Name them and their routes. (In January of 1971, there was 1 train with through service between Chicago and Florida points.)

 

City of Miami    IC Chicago-Birmingham
                         CoG Birnimgham-Albany
                         ACL Albany-Jacksonville
                         FEC Jacksonville-Miami


Dixieland       C&EI CHI-Evansvillke
                       LN Evansville-Nashville
                      NC&StL Nasahville-Atlanta
                      AB&C  Atlanta-Waycross
                      ACL Waycross-Jacksonville


Dixie Flagler    C&EI - CHI-Evansville
                        LN Evansville-NAshville
                        NC&StL Nashville-Atlanta
                        AB&C Atlanta-Waycross
                        ACL Waycross-Jacksonville
                        FEC Jacksonville-Miami


Dixie Flyer    C&EI Chicago-Evansville
                      LN Evansville-Nashville
                      NC&StL Nashville-Atlanta
                      CoG Atlanta-Albany
                      ACL Albany-Jacksonville


Dixie Limited    C&EI Chicago-Evansville
                          LN Evansville-Nashville
                          NC&StL Nashville-Atlanta
                          CoG Atlanta-Albany
                          ACL Albany-Jacksonville

Flamingo    PRR Chicago-Cincinnati
                   L&N Cincinnati-Atlanta
                   CoG Atlanta-Albany
                   ACL Albany-Jacksonville
(Through sleeper only CHI-JAX)


Florida Arrow      PRR Chicago-Louisville
                            L&N Louisville-Montgomery
                            ACL Montgomery-Jacksonville


Florida Sunbeam     B4 Chicago-Cinicnnati
                                SR Cincinnati-Hampton
                                SAL Hampton-Miami
(Through CHI-Miami sleeper only)

    
Floridan    IC Chicago-Birmingham
                 CoG Birnimgham-Albany
                 ACL Albany-Jacksonville


Ponce de Leon    B4 Chicago-Cincinnati
                            SR Cincinnati-Jacksonville
(Through CHI-JAX sleeper only)


Royal Palm    B4 Chicago-Cincinnati
                      SR Cincinnati-Jacksonville
(Through CHI-JAX sleeper only)
        

Seminole    IC Chicago-Birmingham
                   CoG Birnimgham-Albany
                   ACL Albany-Jacksonville


South Wind    PRR Chicasgo-Louisville
                       L&N Louisville-Montgomery
                      ACL Montgomery-Jacksonville
                      FEC Jacksonville-Miami

Southland - East Coast Section    PRR Chicago-Cincinnati
                                                    L&N Cincinnati-Atlanta
                                                    CoG Atlanta-Albany
                                                    ACL Albany-Jacksonville    


Southland - West Coast Section    PRR Chicago-Cincinnati
                                                      L&N Cincinnati-Atlanta
                                                      CoG Atlanta-Albany
                                                      ACL Albany-St. Petersburg/Tampa-Ft. Meyers
(East and West Coast sections ran separately south of Cincinnati - West Coast section carried only through CHI-St. Petersburg and Chicago-Ft. Meyers sleepers)

Very good!

But, you missed the southern termini on some of the trains. The Floridan and the Florida Arrow both had cars to Miami, Sarasota, and St. Pete, and the Dixieland had cars to Miami, Tampa and St. Pete. That's nine gigs.

Over the years of the operation of Chicago-Florida trains, there was a great variety in schedules--at one time, the Floridan, the Florida Arrow, and Dixieland were all-Pullman winter trains, and were operated much the same way as the all-coach streamliners were--each one was every third day. At the moment, I do not remember just what year it was., and I do not want to go upstairs and find a guide with the schedule in it; then, again, I may have to find an ACL schedule that shows this.

The 1971 train was, of course, the City of Miami, which had through cars to Miami, Tampa, and St. Pete.

Next question, please.

[ZephyrOverland]

Deggesty

But, you missed the southern termini on some of the trains. The Floridan and the Florida Arrow both had cars to Miami, Sarasota, and St. Pete, and the Dixieland had cars to Miami, Tampa and St. Pete. That's nine gigs.

Over the years of the operation of Chicago-Florida trains, there was a great variety in schedules--at one time, the Floridan, the Florida Arrow, and Dixieland were all-Pullman winter trains, and were operated much the same way as the all-coach streamliners were--each one was every third day.

 

 

You are right, I did miss some of the through east and west coast Florida cars carried on the Floridan, Florida Arrow and Dixieland.  Those trains were officially Chicago-Jacksonville runs and through cars were carried in other FEC and ACL trains south of Jacksonville.

For the 1940-1941 winter season, the Floridan, Florida Arrow and Dixieland were daily trains, but the following season, they operated as all-Pullman trains on an alternating third day schedule.  In addition, there were another trio of trains, the Jacksonian, Dixieana, and Sunchaser, that were coach-Pullman runs again operating on an alternating third day schedule.   Those trains were cut shortly after they began because of the attack on Pearl Harbor.

[Deggesty]

ZephyrOverland

You are right, I did miss some of the through east and west coast Florida cars carried on the Floridan, Florida Arrow and Dixieland.  Those trains were officially Chicago-Jacksonville runs and through cars were carried in other FEC and ACL trains south of Jacksonville.

You are right; these trains ceased to exist, as such, in Jacksonville. Just think of the activity in the Jacksonville station as the various trains came in and cars were shifted from one track to another so that each car went to its designated destination. This was definitely flat, not hump, shifting. The shifting that took place in the sixties and until 1 May 1971 was nothing compared to this.

Have you come up with another question yet?

[ZephyrOverland]

Deggesty

Next question, please.

 

Despite the status the PRR accorded the Broadway Limited, it wasn't immune to the cost saving measures that were forced on other PRR long distance trains on the onset of the Great Depression.  What train was the Broadway Limited combined with, the combined endpoints and approximately how long did this occur?

[daveklepper]

I am guessing:   The National Limited or the Spirit of St. Louis,   In addition to carrying cars from New York, cars from Washington via Baltimore and the Baltimore Northern route were added at Harrisburgh, and at Pittsburgh, cars were dropped for St. Louis and posibly Cincninnati.

The introduction of the streamlined version in 1938 obviously put and end to this practice.

[passengerfan]

My guess would be the Liberty Limited as it was accorded almost equal status to the Broadway and the two joined at Harrisburg for the trip to Chicago. I would also think it ended in the 1938 streamlining of the Broadway and the introduction of the Fleet of Modernism. What year they were combined would probably be about 1931 or 32 when the depression was at its worst.

Al - in - Stockton

[ZephyrOverland]

daveklepper

I am guessing:   The National Limited or the Spirit of St. Louis,   In addition to carrying cars from New York, cars from Washington via Baltimore and the Baltimore Northern route were added at Harrisburgh, and at Pittsburgh, cars were dropped for St. Louis and posibly Cincninnati.

The introduction of the streamlined version in 1938 obviously put and end to this practice.

 

My guess would be the Liberty Limited as it was accorded almost equal status to the Broadway and the two joined at Harrisburg for the trip to Chicago. I would also think it ended in the 1938 streamlining of the Broadway and the introduction of the Fleet of Modernism. What year they were combined would probably be about 1931 or 32 when the depression was at its worst.

Al - in - Stockton

 

Actually you and Passengerfan got all three parts of the question in your responses.

First off, the National Limited was a B&O train.

The Broadway was combined with the Spirit of St. Louis between New York and Pittsburgh.

This was done briefly from February through April 1932, at which time the Spirit of St. Louis received coaches and lost its extra-fare and the Broadway became independent again and kept its all-Pullman status.

Daveklepper, since you got two of the three parts of the question, the next question is yours.

 

 

[daveklepper]

Interestingly, after I posted my reply (and left the hotel where I used the computer with an internet connection, since I still don't have one of my own and am using one at the Hebrew U at the present time). I realized the National Limited was a B&O train, not a PRR, and that I had meant the Liberty Limited.   I also wanted to ask the question of whether the Spirit of St, Louis had been introduced with the Fleet of Modernism or had ever existed as a heavyweight all-Pullman train?   You have answered that question for me, so that is the right answer of course.  The 7th Day of Passover and the preparations for it prevented returning before now.  I hope everyone had a fine Easter.  Jerusalem was very very crowded with Christian pilgrims, and I am glad they found things peaceful and under control.  In walking in Jerusalem, I had to detour because some narrow Old City streets were jammed with Christian pilgrims and other areas were closed except for people headed for a particular church or shrine.   I hope they all got to pray where they wanted to pray!

My question:   There is one commuter USA railroad and one USA so-called "heavy-rail" rapid transit line that have one characteristic in common.   And this characteristic is not shared by any other railroad, commuter railroad, rapid transit, or light rail line in the USA or Canada, just these two.  But there used to be possibly over 40 throughout the USA!

1.   What is the technical characterstic.   (And both are standard gauge, but don't try running one line's equipment on the other under power!)

2.   Which are the two lines.  Who owns them now, who built them, give as much history as you can. 

3.   At what point on each line does the technical characteristic best manifest itself, both now and originally.

4.   What is different technically about the two lines that prevents them from ever thinking of interchanging equipment.

5.   Name similar operations that used to exist, including system name, specific lines, and locations for the "point" discussed above.   Hint:  There are examples in all types of rail operations, including on-street streetcars if you stretch a point just a little.

1 through 4 are necessary for a right answer.   5 is optional, but do what you can!

[al-in-chgo]

daveklepper

Interestingly, after I posted my reply (and left the hotel where I used the computer with an internet connection, since I still don't have one of my own and am using one at the Hebrew U at the present time). I realized the National Limited was a B&O train, not a PRR, and that I had meant the Liberty Limited.   I also wanted to ask the question of whether the Spirit of St, Louis had been introduced with the Fleet of Modernism or had ever existed as a heavyweight all-Pullman train?   You have answered that question for me, so that is the right answer of course.  The 7th Day of Passover and the preparations for it prevented returning before now.  I hope everyone had a fine Easter.  Jerusalem was very very crowded with Christian pilgrims, and I am glad they found things peaceful and under control.  In walking in Jerusalem, I had to detour because some narrow Old City streets were jammed with Christian pilgrims and other areas were closed except for people headed for a particular church or shrine.   I hope they all got to pray where they wanted to pray!

My question:   There is one commuter USA railroad and one USA so-called "heavy-rail" rapid transit line that have one characteristic in common.   And this characteristic is not shared by any other railroad, commuter railroad, rapid transit, or light rail line in the USA or Canada, just these two.  But there used to be possibly over 40 throughout the USA!

1.   What is the technical characterstic.   (And both are standard gauge, but don't try running one line's equipment on the other under power!)

2.   Which are the two lines.  Who owns them now, who built them, give as much history as you can. 

3.   At what point on each line does the technical characteristic best manifest itself, both now and originally.

4.   What is different technically about the two lines that prevents them from ever thinking of interchanging equipment.

5.   Name similar operations that used to exist, including system name, specific lines, and locations for the "point" discussed above.   Hint:  There are examples in all types of rail operations, including on-street streetcars if you stretch a point just a little.

1 through 4 are necessary for a right answer.   5 is optional, but do what you can!

Intriguing question, dk!  May I ask for a clarification:  are that one commuter-rail line and that one heavy-rail line located in the same metro area? --  Speaking broadly, such as Southern California, NW Indiana/Chicago or NY/NJ, that sort of thing...? 

 

 

[henry6]

I'm going to throw some wood on the fire here because I don't have the full answer but...

...IC and South Shore are the two properties that come to mind and the equipment interchange has to do with car hieghts at stations and couplers.  One is/was a railroad the other an interurban.  There were other lines, like the North Shore and other Insull properties in Chicago Land.

[daveklepper]

The South Shore changed technology during its history, moving from AC to DC IN TIME, BUT NOT AT A LOCATION.   Similarly, the IC Suburban went from steam to electric, a change in time but not location.   And both are commuter railroads.

 

Regarding Al's question.   I could say the commuter railroad and the particular rapid transit line are in different geographical locations.   Except for this: It would be possible to actually operate the latest commuter equpment of the commuter line to a station within easy walking distance of a station on the rapid transit line, or one could take the local transit system, using two heavy rail rapid transit lines, to make the connection, or use a local bus, or use heavy rail and light rail.   But none of the current and new commuter equipment has made that trip.   Maybe someday it will, on a fan trip or for testing if similar commuter equipment were planned for the geographical location of the rapid transit line.  (When I was ERA President we did, after all, run ex-PRR MP-54's to New Haven and New Canaan.)  And it could provide commuter service there on one line, doing a considerably better job from several points of view than the existing latest equpment.   Earlier commuter equipment (possibly defined as interurban or rapid transit equipment, depending on your point of view) did make that trip and served as commuter equpment in the rapid transit line's geographical area until replaced by downgraded six-wheel-truck air-conditioned parlor cars reseated for commuter sevice.   But the technology of the relocated equpment was changed, for this essentially temporary new assignement, replacing wood equipment until the downgraded parlor cars were available..

[henry6]

Now you've moved me east to Philadelphia and t he Philadelphia and Western (Norristown High Speed Line) vs the PRR parallel (sorta, cross the river like) line.  Now both under SEPTA.  Third rail and catenary make the difference. So the "new" cars were those brought from Chicago.  Details escape me in my morning fog.