Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

[FRRYKid]

Shot in the dark but that both of those locomotive classes converted the AC to DC to run the locomotives. (Yes, I did have to look that fact up.)

[daveklepper]

The NYNH&H EP-2s and the CMStP&P Little-Joes both used pantographs for current collection.  But the EP-2s contacted 11000-volts 25Hz AC, and the Joes 3000-volts DC.  The EP-2s also had  600-volts DC 3rd-rail capability.

 

Both had cabs at both ends,  But the EP-32s were box-cabs, and  the Joes streamlined-with nose, much like most passenger diesels,  but at both ends.

 

Both used commutator motors.  The EP-2s could run on 25Hz AC as well as DC, but the Joes only saw DC.

 

Both had six powered axles, articulated to two frames. But the EP-2s were 1-C-1+1-C-1 and the Joes 2-C+C-2. Four later NYNH&H electric classes, EP-3, EP-4, and EF-3 had the Joes’ arrangement.

 

Both had boilers  for steam heating pasenger equipment.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

None of the locomotives mentioned in my question were equipped with steam generators for passenger service.  Also, MILW electrification was 3000 volts DC.  MILW E20-E21 had boilers taking up one of the cabs.  Hardware is not involved in my question.

[rcdrye]

Way over-thinking this.  New Haven's ex-Virginian rectifiers and Milwaukee's freight Little Joes are EF-4 class on their respective railroads.

[daveklepper]

Didn't know that the cex-Virginian rectifiers took numbrers that had  been used by bthe EP-2, which had been a scrapped when the EMD FL-9s arrived.  However, the rlevent EP-2s did have a  zero in front, 0300. 0301, etc.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

rcdrye

Way over-thinking this.  New Haven's ex-Virginian rectifiers and Milwaukee's freight Little Joes are EF-4 class on their respective railroads.

 

We have a winner rcdrye, you have the next question.

[rcdrye]

Two railroads bought four passenger locomotives to power two trains, a day train and a night train that followed a slightly differnt route.  Both trains crossed the border three times before reaching their final destinations.  After the trains were discontinued, at least as locomotive-hauled trains, some of the locomotives were assigned to a train that crossed the border twice between its endpoints.

Railroads and locomotive types, and of course train names.

[daveklepper]

One border?  Between states or oprovinces or countries?

[rcdrye]

daveklepper

One border?  Between states or oprovinces or countries?

 

That's the question.  One of the railroads owned 3 of the passenger engines, the other one.  In each case the engines were the only ones of that model owned by the railroads, though the one that bought one had many of a similar type.

[daveklepper]

Well, then you must be referring to the USA-Canadian border, and althogh I rode both the Alouette, the  day train, and the Red Wing (at times combined with The New-Englander betwee Concord and Boston), the night train, I did not know or did not remermber that the border was  crossed three  times, not just once.  B&M received just one E-8, the last of an order for E-7s.  The CP got three E-8s.  All four were in pool service, runnig through as the Pacifics did, on the two above CP-B&M trains, Montreal - Boston.  (The New Englander was the CN-B&M Montreal - Boston train,),  The B&M E-8 was kept on the two trains, while  the CP's frequently saw Montreal - Toronto service.

When the Red Wing was discontinued and the Alouette went to B&M and CP RDCs MUed together, the CP's were moved to Toronto - Detroit service,  B&M's last stand for E-7s and the E-8 was Springfield - White River Junction on the Montreallar-Washingtonian.

 

[daveklepper]

CP E-8s also ran Montreal - New Brunzwick, crossing the border twice,

[rcdrye]

Got 'em all.  The E8s were all U.S. built (like many CP units assigned to the Vermont lines and the International of Maine.

The line crossed into Quebec just north of Troy VT, then dropped back acoss the border to serve Richford VT.  The line west of Newport is owned by CPKC today.

Most of B&M's E7s and the E8 were sold to other railroads in the early 1960s.  The Conn River Line finished with F7s and GP9s.

[daveklepper]

And one Alco RS-3  (Ambassador to GCT)

 

One railroad, Class I, USA. advertised itself as the railroad of a specific Presidernt.  But that President neither saw nor rode nor invested in that railroad.   (But most-likely,  his life-after-death Spirit......)     Explain, please, in addition to naming the railroad and the President.

 

[Overmod]

Would this be Chesapeake and Ohio with 'George Washington's Railroad'?

Had to do with surveying.  (See 'Richmond & Alleghany' low-grade line...)

(And, by 1890, probably desire to one-up the B&O...)

[daveklepper]

Correct.  Can you spare readers the nead to look up the reference and present a summary?  And ask the nest question.

I had a hint prepared, one of the C&O's named trains. A very early application of air-conditioning and reclining seats in coaches.  (Which had six-wheel trucks).

 

 

[Overmod]

If I remember correctly, 1931 on C&O was the FIRST ice-activated air conditioning offered on regular railroad passenger cars (and that date might reflect testing for the George Washington train).

in brief, Washington was a surveyor for a canal company, that did not do well against early railroads but had a cracking good 'low-grade' routing (along rivers) when that came to be a desirable consideration in the late 1880s.  I will put together more detail when I have time.

[daveklepper]

I think Pullman was actually first, diners possibly as well as sleepers, but C&O had the first all-air-conditioned train, coaches and slerepers,  the George Washington, even beforr Pullman had air-conditioned a majority of its sleepers.  And the C&O then continued for the other two named trains, the Sportsman, anf the Fast Flying Virginian.

The B&O had all its "Royal Blue" Washington - Jersey City (trackside bus cionnection to Manhattan, 2 [or 3?] locations, and Brooklyn, 1), long before the PRR Washington-NY, which did it mostly post-WWII.

[Overmod]

daveklepper

The B&O had all its "Royal Blue" Washington - Jersey City (trackside bus connection to Manhattan, 2 [or 3?] locations, and Brooklyn, 1), long before the PRR Washington-NY, which did it mostly post-WWII.

I used to know where the bus 'route' went in Manhattan -- for some reason I thought they got up to 5 routes at one point, three of which involved multiple hotels, and a couple of the stops going back were different from the ones going in (23rd St ferries?)

I could never really understand why 'checked baggage' through the Holland Tunnel right to your hotel wasn't an advantage over a one-seat ride to the bowels of Penn Station somewhere.  Of course I was only a year old when the party stopped.  I will say they missed the boat somewhat by not having more amenities on the buses to extend the 'experience' on the train -- this wasn't the same operating model as the NYW&B's use of last-mile 'transit'.

[rcdrye]

B&O's 1948 OG listing shows 5 routes with a claim of 13 possible stops.  The map shows 16, because three of them are all served by the Grand Central Station stop, and two of the hotels are across the street from each other.  

Columbus Circle Station

Hotel Lincoln (45th and 8th)

Hotel New Yorker (34th and 8th)

Hotel Victoria (51st and 7th)

Hotel Taft (51st and 7th)

Pennsylvania Hotel (33rd and 7th, across the street from Penn Station)

Governor Clinton Hotel (29th and 7th)

McAlpin Hotel (34th and Broadway)

Rockefeller Center Station (49th St)

Grand Central Terminal

Hotel Commodore (42nd and Park)

42nd St Station

Vanderbilt Hotel (33rd and Park (4th))

Wanamakers (9th and Lafayette)

Liberty Street Station

Brooklyn Station (Eagle Bldg.)

[daveklepper]

My 8th-grade trip-to-Washington used the Columbus Circle Station.

[Overmod]

Another railroad featured connecting dedicated bus service into Manhattan, from not one but three stations at various times.  Name them, and at least one of the connecting name trains that featured the service in each case.

Extra points for the years active, and the routes the buses followed.

(Two of these are easy; the third perhaps not so much, particularly with respect to its two name trains...)

[daveklepper]

Overmod:  B&O buses  did not use the Holland Tunnel but were carried on the CofNJ ferries, except on the very rare occasions when the Hudson was frozen.

[daveklepper]

NY Sussquanna & Western had bus connections to Manhattan at various  times, with only one NJ transfer point at a particular tine, but at least two and possibly three in its history. The Erie Terminal was one, possibly Edgewater another.   Two Manhattan Terminals were the Dixie Hotel basement bus terminal, and later the Port Authority Bus Terminal.  Prewar WWII buses used the Erie Ferry and the Holland Tunnel.  Post WWII, the Lincoln Tunnel.

[rcdrye]

The name trains were the Noontimer and the Matinee Special.  Both were part of a program promoting non-rush hour travel on the NYS&W.

[daveklepper]

RC probably knows more than I do, and might be able to define the other bus-rail transfer points.  If he wishes, I defer to him as winner to ask the nest question, otherweise, I'll try to do my best.  Thanks.

[rcdrye]

Actually I had a hard time finding any info abuou the busses.  There was a period when busses ran from the Erie's Jersey City station/ferry terminal.  

[Overmod]

I was working on the assumption that the name trains were on the 'Erie' (meaning the Northern Branch) rather than the Erie-controlled Suskie.

But there are still two other stations and their routes (and name trains served) to be cited.  Truthfully, it won't be difficult to document them...

[Overmod]

daveklepper

Overmod:  B&O buses  did not use the Holland Tunnel but were carried on the CofNJ ferries, except on the very rare occasions when the Hudson was frozen.

I keep having to be reminded of this.  There was only a 'direct' route from the B&O's terminal (now Liberty State Park) after the Turnpike extension was built (14B to 14C would be the route) but that was only finished circa 1956, very close to the end of the long-distance B&O trains.

[daveklepper]

Overmod, I never heard of the Erie itself having connection buses to Manhattan, and you weill have to provide more specific information.  I pointed out that the Suzie-Q did provide buses for its passengers from the Erie J. C. terminsal before WWII (RC followed on this.), and possibly Erie passengers somehow were accomodated.  Two Erie name trains were the Erie Limited and  the Atlantic Limited.

After WWII, when the NYSq&W buses began using the Lincoln Tunnel to the new Port Authority Bus Terminal, the transfer point was established on the main line, not to Erie tracks used by the NYSq&W, but I just do not know the remember the name of that location.  I also that, before that change, there were times or specific schedules that the buses used the Holland Tunnel, not always the Erie ferries, to the Dixie Hotel Terminal.

Possibly the deal that was not in effect all the time when i used the Erie ferries myself was that SuzieQ let Erie out passengers on its  buses  in return for having the buses ride the ferries?

When I rode the Erie, I used the ferries or the H&M (now PATH).  And again, a a teenage and younger NYCity-area railfan, I knew only of the B&O and the SuzieQ as having buses to Manhattan, with the B&O also to Brooklyn.

The hotel-basement bus terminal had a bus turntable.  It was small compared  to the huge Port Authority facility.

[rcdrye]

Erie patrons on the NY & NJ (which passed Susquehanna Transfer) were allowed to use NYS&W busses.  I don't think Erie ever ran its own.