Toronto- Yonge Street Line for sure and then Bloor/ Dundas Line. Both lines became subways, had heavyweights and then second hand PCC's.
daveklepperAnd one with a very tenuous connection with PCCs. Motors and trailers both with Peter-Witt door configuration, unusual.
That, of course, was Louisville.
[quote user="Miningman"]
[/quote above]
PCCs, both second hand and new, did operate on Young during nights and weekends, periods of low traffic when motor-trailer combinations were not required and PCCs could be borrowed from other lines.
Bloor-Danforth did not have motor-trailer operation as far as I know. Young was the only operation, once all the wood equipment was replaced except for some still used during rush hours during WWII. Howere, as traffic grew, two-car PCC mu operation became the normal for rush hours on Bloor-Danforth. This was after the Young subway was open. PCCs never operated mu on Young.
Brooklyn had motor-trailer operation in the 1920's with 4500-series four-motor convertables (like 4573 at Shore Line Trolley), run by two men, pulling 5000-series center-door lightweight steel trailers. The 5000's were then motorized, had rather weird front doors cut into their front-right corners, and made into one-man cars. This was done around 1930.
Cannot think of any other examples at this time. So, RC, please ask the next question.
This Chicago streetcar line, which was one of the last to run with non-PCC equipment, had clearance restrictions that resulted in several series of replacement buses being ordered with narrow bodies specifically for this line. The bus line has since been discontinued. Name the line and describe the clearance issue.
The route in question was #16-Lake. The clearance issue was the positioning of support columns for the Lake Street L in the street in several locations, causing narrow lanes.
CTA ordered two series of 96" wide buses for 16-Lake, narrower than the standard 102". The wider ones could pass, but it got real close if both were wide.
Bus service on Lake was discontined with the Green Line rebuild in 1993-1996.
The TR16-State-Lake line was one of the "Through Routes" established by the Board of Supervising Engineers to combine Chicago Railways and Chicago City Railways routes so that they passed through the Loop rather than turning back. TR16 cars were intermixed on State with the more common TR36 Broadway-State cars, with TR16 cars running from Lake and Austin on the west side to 119th and Morgan on the far south side. A routine short-turn spot was the loop at 79th and State. The Through Route was truncated to a crossover at Clinton and Lake in December 1953 when the Lake Street bridge over the Chicago River closed for repairs, with service taken over by buses in May 1954. Between Laramie and State the line operated under the Lake Street "L", a distance of 6.5 miles.
I will assume that I can ask the next question. We're still in Chicago, when was the last revenue trip of PCC equipment on the CTA, and on which line?
CSSHEGEWISCH I will assume that I can ask the next question. We're still in Chicago, when was the last revenue trip of PCC equipment on the CTA, and on which line?
The last revenue use of the 6000-series cars (of which 6201-6720, plus 1-50, were converted from PCC streetcars) was December 10, 1992 on the Evanston Express (today's Purple Line).
SEPTA ran some for a while longer on the former P&W.
You've got the right idea (not all PCC's were streetcars) but not the right answer. CTA ran some equipment after that date.
A couple of comments: SEPTA's ex-CTA equipment took the place of the Libertyliners after the former Electroliners were retired earlier; CTA's rapid transit PCC's were built new using a lot of replacement parts (trucks, controls, some interior fittings) from scrapped streetcars that were used as trade-in's.
I think the last PCC rapid-transit-car operation was on the Skokie Swift. But I do not know the date when that equipment was removed. In fact, as far as I know, it may still be operating! These were the singles, I think 50, 51, 52, not married pairs, equipped for onboard fare collection, and of course trolley poles, at one point possibly replaced with pantographs or bow-collectors (British style).
daveklepper gets it. Some of the single-unit cars (5-50 series) and one of the rebuilt pairs (61-65) remained in spot service on the Skokie Swift until March 1998. They are all off the roster now.
There are places in New York City where rapid transit trains cross rivers on bridges. There were more. For example, the Brooklyn Bridge once had both two tracks for elevated trains and two for streetcars, ditto the Queensboro Bridge, and both lack any tracks today.
One bridge that existed was exclusively for elevated trains and was the only one with tracks on two levels. The upper level was only used during rush hours. The bridge does not exist today, and neither do any of the routes that used it. Where was this bridge and which routes used it? The single-deck bridge that it replaced did once have steam-hauled trains on it before electrification.
In this bridge's last few years of existance, elimination of a rush-hour route, that at one point shared tracks with trains using tunnels under the river that this bridge bridged, resulted that during the morning rush hour only in the inbound track was used and during the evening rush hour only the outbound track was used on the upper level.
Some steam locomotives crossed the bridge that this bridge replaced after system electrification and after they were out of service.
All-steel equipment Never crossed this bridge, upper or lower levels. I recall it as a swing-bridge, but it may have been a drawer.
Before unification in New York, there was an important junction immediately south of the bridge on both levels. After unificaiton, the junction no longer existed. Then, the two tracks on the upper level merged into one. This meant that only one of the two upper-level tracks could be used at a time, the eastern northbound track in the evening, and the western southbound track in the morning.
But during WWII and years after, there were six different services using the bridge in the direcdtion of heavy rush-hour traffic, one of which had a section sharing track with steel-car trains. Before Unification there were seven or eight services. The service sharing tracks with steel trains had its route changed between the south end of the bridge and one-stop north of its southern terminal.
I think this bridge was unique in North America, pershaps in the entire world.
Tthe only bridge I can think of that matches this is the Third Avenue El swing bridge across the Harlem River, tucked between the Willis Avenue and Third Avenue bridges. Express on top, local below, carrying trains from both the Second and Third Avenue lines, joining at a junction just south of the bridge in Manhattan.
The track shared with steel cars was north of the bridge, part of today's "2".
Absolutely correct, except 2 AND 5. But the elevated 2nd Avenue trains came first, then what is now the 2, B'way-7th Avenue, then the 5 Lexington. When the Westchester Avenue Southern Blvd elevated structure (officially subway on a viaduct) opened, 2nd Avenue trains provided service to Bronx Park 180th Street. But then after the first Harlem River subway tubes were opened, and trains from Broadway and 7th Avenue started running to BP180, the 2mnd Avenue trains were relegated to rush-hours only and cut back to Freeman Streeat station, using the center track north of the station as a pocket. When Unification meant loss of the 2nd Avenue Elevated, except for service to Queens which continued until 1942, the Freeman Street - City Hall rush hour service was shifted to the Third Avenue Elevated.
Before Unification, direction of rush hour:
Upper Level: City Hall -E. 241st St. Third Avenue Thru Express, City Hall - Fordham Rd. or Bronx Park Third Avenue Local Express, South Ferry - Fordham or Bronx Park Local Express, City Hall - Freeman Street Second Avenue Express
Lower Level: City Hall - Fordham or Bronx Park Second Avenue Express, South Ferry -Treemont Avenue Third Avenue Local, South Ferry - Treemont Avenue Thrid Avenue Local
On Unification the City Hall - Fordham Road Second Avenue Express was canceled, and the City Hall - Freeman Street moved to Third Avenue
All trains made all Bronx stops on their routes except the Third Avenue Thru Express that ran 149th Street - Treemont Avenue non-stop.
Look forward to your question.
This railroad that served Chicago had its own small coachyard and engine service facility, which required the longest backup move of any railroad in Chicago, around 12 miles.
B&O after they moved into the Northwestern Station.
B&O actually had a shorter move after they moved to C&NW's station, since C&NW serviced their trains at California Avenue, much closer to C&NW's station than Robey St. was to Grand Central.
The line I'm looking for passed coach yards belonging to other users of its Chicago terminus on the way to its own, along with an engine terminal for one of them just under 8 miles out of downtown.
Erie?
Erie trains were serviced at C&WI's 47th Street facility (six miles south of the Loop). The railroad you're looking for had a service pattern like the Erie.
That would be the Nickle Plate, with its through trains to Hoboken via the DL&W east of Buffalo having a Hoboken - Chicago service pattern very much like the Erie's. Much of the post-WWII era both had two trains in and two trains out. Neither was regarded as serious competition for the PRR and Central, but those who rode them spoke well of the service and food and didn't mind the extra few hours.
NKP's passenger trains and locomotives were serviced at 103rd street (the roundhouse was nearer 97th). In the 1950s, late-running westbound trains exchanged PA1s for steam there so the PAs could be serviced. Trains backed all the way from LaSalle through Englewood to 103rd.
Did they keep a one or two Hudsons serviceable for that purpose, or what locomotives did they use?
Note that Newark's Ceder Street subway, now revived, was abandoned before Rochester, but it was right-hand running, and the intermediate subway station under the PSofNJ Building did have side platforms, if my memory is correct. If it had island platforms, it would not matter because the deck-roof heavyweights that ran there had left-hand doors as well as right-hand. Other abandoned subways or tunnels, include the Dupont Circle, Bureau of Printing and Engraving, and Capitol Hill tunnel of Capitol Transit, 161st Street, 167th Street, Treemont Avenue, Burnside Avenue, Kingsbridge Road tunnels under the Grand Concours, two having stations directly under the IND Concoiurse (D and B lines, but CC instead of B then) stations, Essex Street at the Mahattan end of Williamsburg Bridge, 2nd Avenue at the Manattan end of the Queensboro Bridge, Los Angeles PE tunnel to the Main Street Station, several subway tunnels in NY maintained for servie but not cuurently used for revenue service, any others one can think of?
Question: B&M E-7 and the one E-8 A units frequently handled trains on the B&M by themselves. But even with short consists that did not require more horsepower, on hardly ever saw a F3 A unit alone on a B&M passenger train. Always an A and a B together. For a very good reason. Why? And the E-units were used only on the Allouiette and Boston - Portland ( - Bangor during periods when power ran through on the Maine Central.) f's handled everything else long-distance until the RDCs began replacing loco-hauled trains. Suburban trains generalliyi had road-switchers, both Alco and EMD.
B&M F2As and F3As didn't have steam generators. F2Bs and F3Bs did. In later days a consist of an F3A and an S/G equipped GP7 wasn't all that uncommon.
E7s did run on some Conn River trains, especially in the summer. They also ran occasionally on Troy NY trains but they didn't work particularly well on the grades on either side of the Hoosac Tunnel. The New York Cental bought passenger F3 sets for the Boston and Albany for the same reason.
Unlike many railroads, B&M didn't pull the steam generators on road switchers just to get fuel capacity. In 1974 D&H traded two freight RS3s for two B&M boiler RS3s (1508 and 1536) for backup power for the Adirondack while the PAs were rebuilt at Morrison-Knudsen. Boiler GP7s could be found on the B&M well into the 1980s.
Correct. And there was not room in an F2 or F3 A-unit for a steam generator. Only in the B-unit.
The F2's were ordered during WWII at a time when only freight diesels could be purchased, no passenger power. The B units were equipped with steam boilers for heating after delivery. Unlike some Class 1s, on the B&M both power and engine CREWS were used interchageably between passenger and freight. In perparing my MIT SB-EE Thesis on diesel locomotive load regulator controls, I regularly rode with the modified GP7 on the 4pm passenger departure from N. Ste. for Portsmouth, returning on the freight to Sommerville Yard with the same locomotive and engine crew. As recorded, had the chance to run one night. On the freight. Winter, 1952-1953. Was an unpaid employee (had an empoyee's pass) of the B&M.
daveklepper Correct. And there was not room in an F2 or F3 A-unit for a steam generator. Only in the B-unit. The F2's were ordered during WWII at a time when only freight diesels could be purchased, no passenger power. The B units were equipped with steam boilers for heating after delivery. Unlike some Class 1s, on the B&M both power and engine CREWS were used interchageably between passenger and freight. In perparing my MIT SB-EE Thesis on diesel locomotive load regulator controls, I regularly rode with the modified GP7 on the 4pm passenger departure from N. Ste. for Portsmouth, returning on the freight to Sommerville Yard with the same locomotive and engine crew. As recorded, had the chance to run one night. On the freight. Winter, 1952-1953. Was an unpaid employee (had an empoyee's pass) of the B&M.
Johnny
Locomotives, other than E-units (E-7s and one E-8) were used interchangeably betwen passenger and frieght.
So were engine crews.
Conductors and brakemen/ticket collectors no. Passenger conductors and trainmen wore specific uniforms. Enginemen of all kinds and freight trainmen did not.
The EMD F-units, boiler GP-7s (1600s), and boiler RS-3s (1500s) could go out on a passenger and return on a freight, or visa-versa.
This was the Boston and Maine. Other railroads may have been different.
On other threads we have learned that engine crews often have different division points than train crews, including on Amtrak.
At least two western interurbans used non-powered trolley poles on diesels to trip Nachod signals in the overhead (with leased steam locomotives they usually used a trailing steeple cab motor). Name the two best known examples.
Pacific Electric and Illinois Terminal
Except that Illinois Terminal isn't Western OK, Central California Traction
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter