Miningman Did it have anything to do with this? A gigantic pyramid of German helmets.
Did it have anything to do with this?
A gigantic pyramid of German helmets.
That event was about 6 months later but its purpose was similar. This photo shows 2 pyramids on 'Victory Way' (Park Ave.) looking north.
Another hint: The New York Central engineer sang second, after Leon Rothier of the Metropolitan Opera sang the national anthem of France.
possibly a "Victory Bond" rally, what in WWII were called Warbonds but in WWI Victory Bonds?
Yes Dave, close enough. Liberty bonds during the war, Victory bonds after. It was your turn anyhow and now it's your turn again.
https://archive.org/stream/storyoflibertylo00stcl#page/n9/mode/2up
Describe the complete Colorado "Narrow Gauge Circle," as thoroughly as you can, with towns, service, dates of agandonment of each portion, etc. You must know the complete circle, not that partial one recently described for the Beebe-Clegg special. Even include motive power and equipment if you can. What part(s) is(are) in operation today as standard gauge? Alamosa should be your starting point.
Starting clockwise from Alamosa:
Alamosa - Antonito - Durango D&RGW. Passenger service until ~1950, freight until ~1968. Alamosa - Antonito remains without the 3 ft rail. Some still in use on C&TS, standard D&RGW equipment.
Durango - Ridgway Rio Grande Southern
In the early years often the same equipment as D&RGW, even some through car operation. Later 2-8-0s on mixed trains, or converted Pierce-Arrow "Galloping Geese". Parts abandoned late 1940s to about 1950.
Ridgway-Salida D&RG(W). Salida - Montrose (Ouray Branch) 3 ft, balance originally 3 ft expanded to dual gauge 1880s. The line wasn't completely abandoned until 1950 under Al Perlman, but the 3 foot rail came out in the late teens. Usual D&RGW stuff on the 3 foot, medium-size D&RGW standard gauge stuff as well. An alternate was to change to the DSP&P at Parlin before the Alpine tunnel closed in 1910- assuming it wasn't closed for weather-related reasons. Passenger service ended in the 1930s.
Salida - Leadville D&RGW Leadville was actually on a D&RGW branch. Part of D&RGW's Tennesee Pass route, it's currently intact but out of service east of Minturn, owned by UP.
Leadville - Como - Denver Denver South Park and Pacific (C&S)
Alternate was to use D&RGW via Dillon, then DSP&P. DSP&P had 4-6-6T Mason bogie engines as well as ordinary NG 2-8-0s. Abandoned 1937.
Denver - Pueblo - Cucara Jct - La Veta Pass - Alamosa D&RG
Alternate went Pueblo - Royal Gorge - Salida - Antonito D&RGW
Dual gauge from the 1880s on, NG passenger service lasted until around 1918. The later circle was more like the one Beebe and Clegg took - Alamosa -Antonito -Durango - Ridgway - Montrose - Salida - Alamosa. NG freight lasted into the 1930s, but I think NG passenger trains west of Alamosa on the Marshall Pass route were also gone by 1920.
Wrong east and south of Salida. The original Gunnison - Marshall Pass narrow gauge line did not go through Alimosa, but ran west of Salida, which is north of Alimosa; and the narrow-gauge circle did not involve Denver or the Denver and South Park RR, only the D&RGW and RGS. Check again; the answer is a much simpler once you got to Salida!
Name the passenger service on the original main and on the Alamosa - Durango run. Both had named trains.
Shavano on the original main
San Juan Antonito-Durango
There were two generations of Narrow Gauge circle tours. I left the short Salida-Alamosa link out when describing the later one. The 1880s-1890s version included the big loop via Denver. One of the major reasons the NG rails remained on the Marshall Pass line for as long as they did was the silver mine area around Ouray, south of the Ridgway junction with the RGS. Ouray was the intended destination of three different NG lines north out of Silverton, none of which actually got there.
The Salida - Alamosa direct narrow gauge line lasted long after any D&RGW narrow gauge operations into Denver ceased and when nearly all current and WWII standard gauge mileage was in place, so it is part of the Narrow Gauge Circle that most remember and speak of. I think it even outlived the Burlington's South Park narrow gauge, which was the last narrow gauge into Denver.
You should still research the names of the two name trains involved and if possible list their equipment. Then ask the next question.
I will say that one rode Salida - Alamosa in a mixed train. The wye for that branch existed in Alamosa as long as the thrid rail from Antonito to Alamosa was in use.
The Rio Grande Southern was completed around 1893, and your large narrow gauge circle was complete at that time. But in 1887 a third rail existed for standard gague equipment from Denver south to Pueblo and then west to Leadville on the Denver and Rio Grande. By the time of WWI, no D&RGW narrow gauge trains reached Denver.
The direct Salida - Alamosa narrow gauge line lasted as long as the Marshall Pass line did, to around 1939.
Anybody wish to suppply the names of the two trains? The Marshalls Pass train was named before the Alamosa - Durango train, and that rout may have been abandoned before the Duranog train was named.
They're named back up the forum a bit. The Marshall Pass train was the "Shavano", equipped with a parlor-observation for much of its life. The Durango train was the "San Juan" (or San Juan Express) which also carried a parlor car. Earlier trains were unnamed, but some carried narrow-gauge Pullmans as well as Parlor cars. Narrow gauge operation on Marshall pass ended (along with the Shavano) in 1940, The San Juan carried on until 1951, long enough to get at least one of the engines into the "Grande Gold" paint scheme.
Thanks for completing the answer, and i look forward to your question. You might check on this, but I believe the Salida-Alamosa cutoff, almost entirely one tangent, went out in 1939, with passenger service provided by a mixed train to the end.
This north-south narrow-gauge railway crossed an east-west mountain range in the western U.S.
Well, the RGW originally narrow gauge, then standard guage, then D&RGW, then SDP, now UP line between Helper and Provo (and then Salt Lake City is cerainly south to north, not east to west, and crosses the Wasatch Mountaint Range, which is east to west, with a summit at Summit. Later, the Utsh Railroad joined part of the distance, already standard gauge. This is one.
Then the Rio Grande Southern was basucakkt a northv-south railroad. I will get ack to your on the name of the mountain range.
San Juan mountains. Also, the Carson and Colorado was all narrow gauge and the northern part crossed Montgomery Pass, but I think this was within the Sierra Range,at a point where the range was mostly east-wet and he RR south-north.
You are a little south. While the RGS and others wound around and over east-west spurs of a north-south range, this range is considered to be one of the few east-west ranges in North America. It's sandwiched between two much larger north-south ranges. The railroad was noted for extreme grades and sharp curves even among narrow-gauge lines. While it never connected with any active ng lines, its southern connection was with a former narrow-gauge.
Sumpter Valley. I may be able to get back with the range.
Correction: Utah and Northern. It connects (now a UP branch) with both the UP main line and the ex-D&RGW (RGW) in Ogfen. Still did not find the montain range.
The Uinta Railway, between Mack, Colorado, and Watson, Utah--in the Uintah Mountains, which run east and west in Northeast Utah, just south of Wyoming.
Atchee to Baxter Pass had a 7.5% grade. Moro Castle Curve, between Atchee and Baxter Pass (8730') was a 66 degree curve. (from SPV Colorado-Utah Atlas)
Johnny
The Uintah had a 2-6-6-2T which later served on the Sumpter Valley that had to have its crown sheet altered to allow for the 7.5% grade. Main purpose was hauling gilsonite, used to make a gasoline-like fuel.
that was my first thought but I had forgotten that the range ran east-west.
Deggesty-Johnny, still waiting for your question.
I'm sorry to have taken so long in propounding a question.
What two passenger trains, in 1947, shared a diesel engine--one way on one train and back on the other, over a part of each train's route? The power for the other direction of each was, obviously, steam.
In 1947, for a while, note the whole year, this occured with the Detroit section of the Empire Stae Express between Buffalo and Detroit, with the opposite direction on eithr the Wolverine or the Detroit Limited. At the time the Empire State Express was handled by new E-7s from New York to Cleveland, with the Detroit section removed at Buffalo, and the operation was the first introduction of diesel power to the Canada Southern. A non-streamlined Hudson, either J1a or J3a was the steam power. If the E-7-E-B combination was not available Harmon - Cleveland, a Niagra was available.
Another possible contender might just be the SP's Hustler and Sunbeam, Dallas - Houston. A streamline Pacific in this case.
Dave, I should have specified that this was in the South--which does narrow the matter a little. The information is found in the railroad's public timetable.
Piedmont Lmt and Crescent between Atlanta and Montgomery or there and New Orleans? The froer the West Point Rojte and the second the L&N?
Or the Gulf Wind, Flomaton and NO? L&N?
No, not the L&N or the West Point Route.
MP Houston - NO?
daveklepper MP Houston - NO?
Did it involve the Tennesian, on the Southern, not the N&W?
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