If you won't give me the St. Louis and Suburban, which actually got to the grounds, would you settle for the Rock Island? CRI&P's Kansas City line ran north of the fairgrounds.
Rob, yes, Rock Island just north of the Pike, on the backwards upside-down map. Your turn.
The ex-CRI&P line is now owned by TRRA.
At least in part in competition with the Rock Island, for a period of about 15 years, this western railroad operated two train pairs over a 120 mile segment, some of it jointly operated. On 75 miles of this line, the trains carried dome cars belonging to three different railroads. Track owning railroad, dome car owning railroads and car city pairs.
The line you are referring to is the Denver - Pueblo joint line with the northern portion Denver - Colorado Springs partly in competition with the Rock and its Rocky Mountain Rocket, the competition being the Denver Zephyr thru cars from Chicago to Colorado Springs. The 15 years are up to the discontinuance of the MP-D&RGW Colorado Eagle, with its MP dome cars St. L - Denver. The D&RGW Scenic Limited (named the Royal George for a while?) handled a Denver - Grand Junction or Salt Lake Citiy dome snack-bar or lounge coach, possibly a dome coach off the Denver Zephyr from Chicago to Colorado Springs, and AT&SF cars off the Chief Denver - Los Angeles. Both trains covered the entire Denver - Pueblo line, but the Burlington equipment only went as far south as Colorado Springs.
As a favor for the Rock Island, occasionally its equipment would also be on the train, balancing car requirements between Colorado Springs and Denver, as I observed. So sometimes four railroads' passenger equipment would be on the Scenic Limited/Royal George north of Colorado Springs. Plus of course head end equpment from other railroads.
Yep, that's it. MP Planetarium Domes on the Colo. Eagle, DZ domes carried by D&RGW along with the ex-Chessie Dome on the Royal Gorge.
Of additional interest, the southbound trains used the D&RGW station at Colorado Springs, northbounds used the AT&SF station. AT&SF only had the Super Chief Pleasure Dome cars, plus the full length Big Domes on the Chief (and SF Chief), none of which strayed north of La Junta in regular operations.
Wow, what an interesting situation with all those domes! To think of all the effort behind it from design to marketing to cooperation between the roads and the monies spent in this endeavour just to serve the good folks, only to see it all vanish and so quickly really. If you were the right age, for a very small window of time when these operated and were of the right means, then perhaps you got a chance to see, ride and enjoy these trains on all those glorious railroads. I still say we lost too much, too quickly.
"You don't know what you got 'till it's gone".
Thank goodness for the railfan community, hobbyists, and TRAINS magazine for keeping the fires burning, if only in memory.
Sorry I have not been able to participate much lately. The school year started and I have 45 young adults this year, more than ever before, a major Geophysics Field school upcoming in the remote wilderness for a week in 2 weeks from now, and to make it all worse I am moving into a new house this Friday...so the heat is on and so is the stress...and of course, not being a spring chicken and long in the tooth I have to draw on calmness and experience rather than highballing to get through this all. Of course I will read all your posts and keep myself well informed with the Classic Trains forum.
In addition to the equipment of the railroads mentioned. the Northern Pacific was also represented. because its slumbercoaches were in pool with those of the Burlington, and often, about once a week, an NP one was in use as the Chicago - Colorado Springs slumbercoach. The NP slumbercoaches were unpainated stainless steel, and in the North Coast Limited they stood out from the two-tone green of the rest of the train, just like those owned by the Burlington.
My question, turning to traction: There is a relatively small city attched to large city. The multi-route streetcar system of the small city reached into the large city, and was owned by one of the streetcar systems of the large city. It also rached into what could only be called a suburb, not a city, of the large city. The small city system outlasted the system in the large city, almost, but not quite, having the last streetcar lines in the large city. A destination. as inlcuded in the rolesigns of the streetcars, of several of the small city's streetcar lines included a name for part of the human body as one of four words describing the destination.
Naming the small citiy and naming the destination are sufficient. Kudos are promised for naming the lines terminating at the destination and the other destinaitions of these lines. Other information about the system, including car types and fares will also be appreciated.
Between the specific destination with the human body part word and the downtown area of the major city, the streetcar system was somewhat in comptition with a major railroad's suburban trains, but the fare via the streetcar and connections was much lowere and the time for travel much greater. The destination sign for the streetcar was not reflected in the name of the railroad station located there.
Hint: On the destination rollsign for these cars was another destination, not used by the several lines reaching the four-letter destination that included a part of the human body (a word also used in describing an amenity in some but not all lightweight long-distqnce coaches). This destination, used by three routes, or 2-1/2 with the third realy a cutback on the common section of the first two) is one word describing a form of urban transportation rather than a place. These three routs did not serve the part of anatomy destination, although one came close.
Further hints: The railroad's suburban trains were also electric, and the route was also used by intercity trains and at the railroad's station, by freight trains. Most intercity trains did not stop; nearly all service was provided by suburban trains. The railroad station located right at the streetcar destination was simly named for the small city. But there were two other suburan railroad stations in the small city, named for their neigihborhoods, and one was a few flight of stairs from a streetcar line, the one that almsot, but not quite, called the anatomical word (one of four words) destination. So in a sense the railroad also competed for local business as well as business to and from the major city. The streetcar system was replaced by buses well after WWII, with pretty much the same route structure, although two lines were combined and several extended.. I believe the two destination signs, the anatomical one of four words and the transportation description one of one word are still in use on the buses.
Further hints: The mix of most suburban trains stopping and most intercity trains bypassing still exists today, but with 50% more suburban trains and 70% fewer intercity trains. And buses that replaced streetcars in the small city still provide a connection to another form of public transportation to the heart of the big city in some sort of competition with the railroad.
During WWII only one type of streetcar was used on the small city's lines, built in the system's shop in the big city before the war. They closed out streetcar operation, but when one needed major repair, a spare that had been transfered from the big city, a slightly earlier version of the same type, was substituted and the defective car scrapped earlier than the still operating fleet. The small city system could have continued operating on a self-sutaining basis several more years, but rotting wood ties buries in pavement made expensive track repairs essential, so buses were substituted.
A later version, the last version, of the basic car type is at two USA trolley museums, one in the UK, and two in operating condition at a major European city.
Remember, the city is enough, you also need the destination with the anatomical word.
Yonkers? Totally stumped for destination if not "The Town of Eastchester."
I tried all of the cities with smaller, connected neighbor cities I could think of. I did look at Yonkers but missed even what wans found.
Wanswheel, let me give you some help. The Yonkers RR station and the destination are next to the Hudson River as your map shows. Main Street is the main drag, running east-west. Obviously there is a grade going up from the destination to Getty's Square, the city center where all nine lines except No. 8 had stops, 8 being Riverdale Avenue, shown on the map as the short north-south line south of Main Street than ran only to the border with The Bronx between the lines on Broadway that did cross the border and te river.
So the destination signs read "_____" of Main Street. Again, it is the lowest part of the street, if not the lowest part of the town. Line 7 east to Mount Vernon, all double track, Line 5 that turned north on Neperhan Avenue, running north to the Tukhaho border, with single-track on Neperhan, the northern half being PRoW at the side of the road, the only PRoW in the system other than Queensboro Bridge, the No 6 turning north on Tuckahoe Road to the Putnam Div. NYC Tuckahoe station. also single-track, and the 9. as short one-car-operated line that was merged into the 5 when buses took over, all started from this destination. And the carhouse was located there.
The 1. 2, and 3 all ran south to the destination described by a one-word description of a form of transportation, the connection to one of the only two routes existing at the time, over 40 now, with the description not really physically accurate at the connecting point but still used, even today, to refer the line. Name that destination.
North of Main Street 1 ran north with single track on Warburton Avenue which Broadway joined and then to the Hastings line. 2 all double track to the town line on Park, and 3 was a Gettys Square or ____of Main Street to the southern destination supplementing the 1 and 2.
I see there was a Post Office at the foot of Main St. Anything else down there, maybe a shoe store?
The New York Central RR Station and the Third Avenue Transit System car house and the Central's, now the Metro North, police station with a holding jail. Across the tracks some docks on the Hudson River for small boats. No shoe store, but shoe-shine concession in the station. Plus the usual stand that sells/sold newspapers, magazines, candy, maybe pretzels and potato chips, possibly bagels.
How about the other destination, the one to the south? You must have figured that out as well. One word, describes the mode of the connecting transportation according to usual usage although the mode is physically different at the connection. And no Boston-like across-the-platform transfer. Not today with the buses, either.
Subway.
Please ask the next question
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D9UJq6HYAI&t=2m14s
“Emperor Haile Selassie of Ethiopia and his entourage arrived in Chicago at Midway Airport on Jun. 8, 1954 as part of a first North American tour, and the contingent spent the day touring railroad shops, stockyards, a meat packing plant, and a steel mill. Emperor Selassie also visited the Burlington’s Clyde shops in Cicero, Illinois on that day.”
What American railroad did Haile Selassie ride in October 1963?
wanswheelWhat American railroad did Haile Selassie ride in October 1963?
Pennsylvania RR. He was greeted by the Kennedys in Union Station after his Oct 1 1963 speech at the U.N. in New York. It looks like it was a special train with a PRR office car, though I haven't been able to confirm that.
http://www.tadias.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/President-kennedy-and-Jackie-Kennedy-welcoming-the-Emporer3.jpg
Rob, yes of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDI12q-TtHw&t=1m18s
Excerpt from The Lion of Judah in the New World by Theodore M. Vestal (2011)
On the first day of October 1963, a Pennsylvania Railroad train pulled out of Philadelphia at 9:35 sharp bound for Washington, D.C.’s Union Station. Included in the trainset was the private railway carriage of Emperor Haylä Selassé of Ethiopia, Elect of God, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, and King of Kings, on his second state visit to the United States. He was the guest of President John F. Kennedy, who had responded positively to the Emperor’s lobbying to come to Washington to meet face to face and engage in personal diplomacy. In the Emperor’s rail car sat the ten members of the official party, ministers and family members, who listened to Ambassador Angier Biddle Duke, the U.S. State Department’s Chief of Protocol, speaking in French and pointing out scenic landmarks along the way.
After leaving the suburbs, the train picked up speed and traveled southward at seventy-five miles per hour. The seventy-two year old Emperor wore a field marshal’s uniform of tan and red and carried a long swagger stick. His Imperial Majesty (as protocol required the Emperor to be called) sat ramrod straight in his seat, a bit on edge. Official visitors to Washington usually flew from Andrews Air Force Base to the White House lawn by helicopter, but Haylä Selassé thought such an entry undignified for a man of his stature and demanded that he arrive by train. The State Department made arrangements for that to happen, and the entire visit was choreographed with grace and precision.
At 11:59 a.m. the train backed into Union Station and docked at the exact location where the Emperor could alight on the 140-foot red carpet laid out for the occasion. As Haylä Selassé stepped out of the car, the herald trumpets of the military band sounded a welcoming fanfare, and President Kennedy shook the Emperor’s hand. Mrs. Kennedy, dressed in a black Oleg Cassini suit and wearing a signature pillbox hat, greeted the Emperor in flawless French. Haylä Selassé then proceeded down a receiving line of Washington’s top brass official welcomers and a host of diplomats, many from African nations, as cannons fired a twenty-one gun salute at precisely three-second intervals from the bottom of Capitol Hill. Rousing shouts of “Long live the Lion of Judah” in Amharic roared through the vault of Union Station.
Can't see the numbers or name on the car, but it appears to be a standard PRR Z74d, like "Chicagoan" seen here:
I'll post a new question later today or early tomorrow.
The author wrote, “Included in the trainset was the private railway carriage of Emperor Haylä Selassé…” He must’ve meant the car was private to the extent that ordinary passengers on the train were not allowed in, and not that the car was Selassie's property. 1963 New York Times articles don’t mention the car at all. The emperor was flown from Geneva to Philadelphia by the Air Force, rode the train to Washington (perhaps the Morning Congressional?), then flew to New York and to Ottawa. He intended to visit Cape Canaveral but there was a hurricane coming.
Haile Selasse's "private railway carriage" is clearly in PRR paint. The paint and railings match the photo I showed above....
Of the five railroads that offered through service between Chicago and the Twin Cities in 1950, name the second one to discontinue service.
Was the SOO the second road to discontinue through Chicago-Twin Cities service?
Johnny
Deggesty Was the SOO the second road to discontinue through Chicago-Twin Cities service?
Soo was third.
Rob:
Was the CNW the second? I am curious who the first one was.
Ed Burns
Ed is correct. C&NW's "400" made its last run in 1963, the overnight "North Western Limited" made its last run in 1960. The first to go was the Chicago Great Western, whose overnight train, once the "Legionnaire" and later the "Minnesotan" made its last unnamed FP7-powered run in 1955. Soo continued to carry a through Chicago-Minneapolis coach and RPO on trains 3-5 and 6-4 via Owen Wisconsin until the "Laker" was discontinued in 1965. CB&Q/BN and MILW were active until 1971 with MILW's service continuing under Amtrak.
There had been through sleeper service on an IC/M&StL routing via Albert Lea Minnesota but that was gone before 1950.
Rob and All:
I rode the last east and westbound "Twin Cities 400" from Minneapolis to Eau Claire and back. Steve Timbers was the conductor. The term "400" was from 400 miles in 400 minutes--not quite correct, but a good advertising slogan.
This next question is about cabooses.
Three affilated railroads built cabooses in their respective shops in the 1950's.
One railroad did not use the term "caboose" but another name. What was it?
What three cities were the three shops located in?
What were the colors of the cabooses as all were different?
One of the railroads built (add on's) additional cabooses for a subsidary railroad in two batches. What was the railroad and what color were they?
Regarding the above, the first and second orders for cabooses had one difference. What was it?
One final question. One of the above railroads placed caboose bodies on three old switch engine frames. Railroad please.
Keep digging in caboose history and you will solve this problem.
NP EddieOne railroad did not use the term "caboose" but another name. What was it? What three cities were the three shops located in? What were the colors of the cabooses as all were different? One of the railroads built (add on's) additional cabooses for a subsidary railroad in two batches. What was the railroad and what color were they?
GN Hillyard shops Spokane WA
NP Como shops, St. Paul MN
CB&Q "Way Car" West Burlington IA
NP built cabooses for SP&S - two batches - cupola and bay window
Regarding the PRR office car, the number 100 shows, and it appears as a duplicate of 120, "Pennsylvania," now owned and operated by Juniata Terminal, once owned by George Pinns. Note the drop equalizer 4-wheel trucks. My understanding is that it is a rebuild of a P-70.
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