In 1893, 1916, and 1930, there were only two roads shown into Durango--D&RG, and RGS; both 3' gauge. The D&RG had three lines from Durango--to Silverton, Farmington, N. M., and to Alamosa (std. gauge on to Denver). The RGS came down from Ridgeway, where it connected with the D&RG.
There was a coal rr, Boston Coal and Fuel (also 3'), which connected with the RGS at Franklin Jct.; it went up to Perrin's Peak Mine.
There were four roads into, or almost into Silverton--D&RG, Silverton, Silverton Northern, and Silverton, Gladstone & Northerly (absorbed by SN)--all 3' gauge, but this is not the town you named.
Johnny
YOu got the three railroads into Durango correct despite my error. And I was mistaken, the coal railroad did not enter Durango but connected via the RGS. And you are right about Silverton, also.
But what about the gauge question? Can you answer that correctly and give the full story, or should I do it?
In any case, you get to ask the next question.
daveklepper YOu got the three railroads into Durango correct despite my error. And I was mistaken, the coal railroad did not enter Durango but connected via the RGS. And you are right about Silverton, also. But what about the gauge question? Can you answer that correctly and give the full story, or should I do it? In any case, you get to ask the next question.
I hope to have a question ready tomorrow.
daveklepperIn any case, you get to ask the next question.
Here is the question: what was unique about the way that the Florida East Coast identified its passenger cars (particularly, the lightweight cars)?
All FEC passenger-carrying cars were identified by name only, none had a number.
CSSHEGEWISCH All FEC passenger-carrying cars were identified by name only, none had a number.
I was a little surprised to see, in Birmingham, a Seaboard coach with a name and no number, in the mid-sixties. Then I realized that it was a former FEC coach.
From I remember from what I read, the D&RG learned that the Santa Fe was about to build a branch to Farmington and Durango. This would have given them an advantage for Durango business, being standard gauge. So the D&RGW. which had been planning a branch to Famington, built it as standard gauge, an isolated standard gauge line. I have seen pictures of the operation, and Durango did have dual-gauge trackage. The thought was that they would conntect with the AT&SF in Farmington and be the originating and terminating carrier. Then the AT&SF didn't proceed with their plans, since with revenue division, it would not have been all that profitable. So the Farmington line was unique in the USA as a line converted from standard to narrow gauge. Someone else might be able to supply dates and more information.
Otto Mears was the financier and promoter of the Silverton Northern, Silverton Gladstone and Northerly, and the Rio Grande Southern. He prefered to work with William Jackson Palmer of the D&RG, rather than be a rival.
New question: What do some of Central of Georgia's passenger trains and Frisco's E units have in common??
CSSHEGEWISCH New question: What do some of Central of Georgia's passenger trains and Frisco's E units have in common??
They were named after famous race horses. The CofG's trains were the Nancy Hanks and the Man 'o War.
Mark
KCSfanThey were named after famous race horses. The CofG's trains were the Nancy Hanks and the Man 'o War.
Mark, you missed one. The last passenger train operated by the Central of Georgia was the Nancy Hanks II. I don't remember the years of operation, but the original Nancy Hanks was operated many years ago, also as an Atlanta-Savannah train. Incidentally, I was able to ride the Man O' War in the early sixties; by then it had only a news butch to provide refreshment, and made only one round trip a day. The Nancy Hanks II kept a grill-lounge until the end, and in its last months also had a dome car; I had a pleasant trip on it down to Savannah in February of 1971 as I was on my way to add the Lakeland-Naples and Tampa-Venice lines to my travels. I was a bit late getting started in adding route-miles to add such exotica as Haines City-Clewiston to my total.
http://photoswest.org:8080/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?fullRecord+27375+594+759736+11+3
http://photoswest.org:8080/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?fullRecord+27375+594+1972224+15+3
http://www.library.gsu.edu/spcoll/collections/AV/lane/view.asp?action=search&search=Nancy+Hanks
WAG. No Dynamic Brakes. (If in the off chance I'm right. I tend to be an irregular here. So please continue without me).
Thx IGN
wanswheel http://photoswest.org:8080/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?fullRecord+27375+594+759736+11+3 http://photoswest.org:8080/cgi-bin/cw_cgi?fullRecord+27375+594+1972224+15+3 http://www.library.gsu.edu/spcoll/collections/AV/lane/view.asp?action=search&search=Nancy+Hanks
We are greatly indebted to Mike for the information, particulary the photographs, that he puts out for us.
KCSfan, you were the first one under the wire by knowing that they were racehorse names, the common thread. Mix yourself a tall mint julep and ask the next question.
DeggestyI don't remember the years of operation, but the original Nancy Hanks was operated many years ago, also as an Atlanta-Savannah train.
Quite a number of passenger trains were named after different species of birds but relative few had animal names. In the post-WW2 period what US trains had animal (mammals) names, what railroads operated them and what were their routes?
I'll start here:
Gopher/Badger, GN, Minneapolis-Duluth
Wolverine, NYC, Chicago-New York via Detroit
Polar Bear, Algoma and Hudson Bay Winnapeg - Churchill?
Is the Owl a mammal? NY - Boston, NYNH&H
Pony Express, UP, C&NW Chicago - LA
Antelope (AT&SF) Kansas City to Oklahoma City
Beaver (SP) Oakland to Portland
Man O' War (C of G) Atlanta to Columbus
Nancy Hanks II (C of G) Atlanta to Savannah
Thoroughbred (Monon) Chicago to Louisville
Buffalo Day Express (PRR) Washington - Buffalo
Buffalo Limited (NYC) Pittsburgh - Buffalo
Buffalo Mail (DL&W) New York - Buffalo
Sea Lion (PRR/Reading Seashore Lines) New York - Atlantic City
Dolphin (PRR/Reading Seashore Lines) New York - Atlantic City
New England Wolverine (NYC) Boston - Chicago
Al - in - Stockton
Not a mammel, but of interest, the Clamdigger, the all-tops NY - Boston, later New Haven - Boston Shore Line route NYNH&H local.
OK, I think it's time to wrap this question up. The score follows:
Paul - 3 trains - Gopher, Badger & Wolverine
Dave - 1 train - Pony Exp ( an Owl is a bird not a mammal and I believe the Polar Bear was not a US train but ran north from Sault Ste. Marie all in Canada)
Mike - 2 trains - Antelope & Beaver (while equine related the Nancy Hanks, Man 'o War and Thoroughbred are not animal species)
I know of two other trains that nobody mentioned; the NYC/CP Toronto-Buffalo Exp and the NYC/P&LE Pittsburg-Buffalo Exp (or maybe it was the Buffalo-Pittsburg Exp)
Al-in Stockton is our winner with 6 trains - Buffalo Day Exp, Buffalo Ltd, Buffalo Mail, Sea Lion, Dolphin & New England Wolverine. Light up your stogie and ask the next question, Al.
Name the longest east coast north -south route operated by a passenger train and the trains name. Name the longest west coast north-south route operated by a passenger train and the trains name. and name the longest midwest north south route operated by a passenger train and the trains name?
passengerfan Name the longest east coast north -south route operated by a passenger train and the trains name. Name the longest west coast north-south route operated by a passenger train and the trains name. and name the longest midwest north south route operated by a passenger train and the trains name? Al - in - Stockton
East Coast - Havana Special - PRR/RFP/ACL/FEC - New York-Key West
West Coast - West Coast - SP - Los Angeles-Portland
Midwest - Twin Star Rocket - RI - Minneapolis-Houston
Your question Zephyr Overland
In 1946, a section of the Sunshine Special became a through Texas-New York train via PRR, running through St. Louis instead of beginning or ending there. This was not a first. Name the train, railroad(s), and the endpoints of another train that operated THROUGH St. Louis instead of beginning or ending there, and predated the New York Sunshine Special service.
Bonus question - Because of the establishment of the above train in question, another railroad began a similar service but it shared only one endpoint with the other train (the other endpoint for this train was near the endpoint of the above train). This other train did not run through St. Louis, but it did have through cars to and from St. Louis. Name this train, the railroad(s) and endpoints.
Did not at one time the Texas Eagle or Texas Special operate through to Chicago, with southern points Houston (or Dallas or Fort Worth) and San Antonio (or El Paso), using the GM&O or the Alton northeast of St. Louis and MP and T&P from there? I presume the Frisco may have tried to compete with a similar train, but have zero idea what its name was or which railroad was used north of St. Louis
daveklepperDid not at one time the Texas Eagle or Texas Special operate through to Chicago, with southern points Houston (or Dallas or Fort Worth) and San Antonio (or El Paso), using the GM&O or the Alton northeast of St. Louis and MP and T&P from there? I presume the Frisco may have tried to compete with a similar train, but have zero idea what its name was or which railroad was used north of St. Louis
The Texas Eagle and Texas Special never operated north of St. Louis. They may have carried through sleepers to and from Chicago, but that's about it.
As for the Frisco, in order to extend their marketing reach to Chicago without actually running through trains there, had the C&EI name their newly established Chicago-St. Louis trains the Frisco Express, Frisco Special and Frisco Limited. It can be surmised that the Frisco thought they could funnel Chicago traffic through the C&EI. This occurred when they had control of the Chicago and Eastern Illinois (1902-1913.)
You touched on part of the answer: north of St. Louis the through train operated via the Chicago & Alton.
OK, we have eliminated the Frisco and the Missouri Pacific as contenders for runniing a through train over the Chicago and Alton from St. Louis to Chicago, so that leaves us with the Missouri Kansas Texas, the Katy. I think their crack train was simply called the Katy Flyer, but my memory isn't perfect. They may have called it the Texas Katy Flyer or something similar. And not having access to the Texas and Paciifc, it may have used the Fort Worth and Denver of the Burlington system for part of its southern journey. Dallas, Fort Worth, and San Antonio are all possibilities for a southern temrinal, and it may have even used Sante Fe trackage to reach Houston.
daveklepperOK, we have eliminated the Frisco and the Missouri Pacific as contenders for runniing a through train over the Chicago and Alton from St. Louis to Chicago, so that leaves us with the Missouri Kansas Texas, the Katy. I think their crack train was simply called the Katy Flyer, but my memory isn't perfect. They may have called it the Texas Katy Flyer or something similar. And not having access to the Texas and Paciifc, it may have used the Fort Worth and Denver of the Burlington system for part of its southern journey. Dallas, Fort Worth, and San Antonio are all possibilities for a southern temrinal, and it may have even used Sante Fe trackage to reach Houston.
The Katy is not the answer either. Its actually a smaller road that didn't go to Texas.
I'll give this another day - at that point I'll reveal the answer.
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