I think it can be safely said that the B&O owned more than one locomotive and rolling stock in addition to just one combination car. I was not aware of its ownership by Sam Pinsley at any any time, nor was it scrapped, but merged into the CXS system. When did it have switchback in its main line or when was it owned by the Boston and Maine?
However, I should admit my own mistakes, and perhaps this will help ride with me Henry. The railroad was independent after 1925, but did not get trackage rights over the B&M into the major city until 1935. The cutback that shortened the line occured in 1945, just before I rode it, not before WWII, but during that war. Also, its first 43-ton GE diesel and its second 44-ton GE diesels were not ex-B&M. I assumed they were the same locomotive (looked alike) and I was confused because they were painted in B&M's regular switcher paint scheme. The first was built for a USArmy installation. The first was second hand, originally built for USArmy installation, the second built new by GE in 1950 and sold to the Sanford and Eastern when the specific shortline quit in 1952. The book I consulted says that the locomotive I saw was an ex-B&M Baldwin 2-6-0. No. 1. Even though I remember it as a 4-6-0, No. 2, also Baldwin.
It should be in OG's after 1925.
Here's a trivia question from a century ago. Back around 1900, what was the slang term for railroad cars that did not have air brakes?
A good question, and one worth asking, but the rules of this thread are that you are to answer the current question before you ask your question. Is that OK with you?
Read the thread and try to answer the current question. If you have acess to Official Guides, it should not be difficult at all.
Again, Henry, read the Offical Guide. When you wrote Sunapee, you were very close in two ways.
I think cars still requring use of the handbrake to help stop the train were called "stemwinders."
Riding the railroad in question, if instead of returning to camp, I had wanted to ride to Clairmont Junction, i could have boarded the Boston and Maine train that ran over what became again the C&C.
Just trying to get time to check it all out...maybe before the morning is out!
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I was looking north in the Conneticuit Valley in 1927 when I wandered east instead. Found Sunnacook Valley RR which allowed for connections to Manhester and Boston or to Concord and Montreal. Didn't that become one of Pinsley's earliest lines?
It gotrackage rights from Bow Jc. to Concord in 1935 and then operated its mixed between Concord and Center Brarnstead until early 1945, and then only to Pittsfield NH, its headquarters up to abandonment in 1952. That is the railroad, and the switchback resulted from the B&M's abandonment of the line south from Suncook to Hookset, and with the connections then on the main to Manchester. So, the next question is yours Henry and I'll have more on Suncook Valley when I have a few additional moments to spare.
OK.. The B&M obviously intended to bridge the gap between Center Barnstead and Alton Bay, a popular vacation spot, because the Alton Bay station was constructed as a through station, complete with order signal board. But the branch was cut back from Alton Bay to Rochester (NH). The Sucook Valley Transportaton Co.. owned by the railroad, provide twice daily bus service between Concord and Alton Bay via Pittsfield (directly, not via Suncook), Center Barnstead, and Barnstead. A round trip took about four hours for the bus. Between trips the bus was available for charter, and indeed serveral times that summer did take campers to the Canon Moutain areal tramway (a suspended cable line).
Sam Pinsley's Suncook Valley survived on farm products and necessities, and mostly on coal and material to a factory in Pittsfield that manufactured baseball bats, tennis raquets, golf clubs, etc, but during WWII helmets and body armor. After the factory closed down or converted to oil heat (I didn't find out which) traffic fell off and the railroad was abandoned in 1952. i think passengers were carrried on the mixed train to the end.
Concord of course was a major stop for Boston - Montreal trains and the terminal of several trains each day from Boston. In the evening one carried a sleeper from Concord to Ayer or Lowell. which was picked up the State of Maine Express coming from Bangor and Portland. In the early morning there was a reverse procedure. This was also repeated for the Day Express, whcih was the State of Maine equipment making a return trip during the daytime to handle the addional traffic during WWII, and the Pullman 12 section and one drawing room car was operated as a parlor car for this serivce. The State of Maine, the overnight train, operated over what is now the Providence and Worcester between Worcester and Providence, but the Day Express operated directly down the Thames River Line to Groton and New London.
But the line to Clairmont Jc. never carried regular through passenger equipment. It was also weight restricted to light power, 2-6-0's were normal, double headed if freights or passenger specials were too heavy for one.
Editing to fix following phrasing and wording:
I put an "a" in Suncook; just natural when nailing down New England names by force of habit...At Concord one could go to White River Jct to CV-CN to Montreal, Wells River and CP to Montreal or to North Conway to the Maine Central's Montreal service.
So, my turn. New England is extremely fascinating and deep in railroad lore. Dave brought up the name Sam Pinsley;, he and kin Salzburg, both of the Boston area, were salvage dealers who bought up railroads at salvage prices but found they could operate them cheaper than the big guys and did so for many years. Four I am very familiar with operated in NY and PA,, three into the 70's. One was made up in part from a wandering milk and coal hauler, the second an interurban service, and the third, a then remote and isolated trackage to the main railroad, the fourth I believe always stood alone. Name the salvage railraod names, the original railroad names, and the dates of final abandonment (by year is ok).
A pretty tall order for four railroads, but I believe that you are taking about the Unadilla Valley and the Johonstown Fonda and Gloversville for two of the four. I don't have access to OG's so I cannot go further, and if someone else can and be accurate, may he or she be the winner. I thought of the Jamestown Westfield and Northern, but I think that went to abandonment intact with trolley wire and passenger service still in place.
FJ&G was not one of them.
Was Claremont Railway and Light Co one of them?...Mike
Mikec6201 Was Claremont Railway and Light Co one of them?...Mike
No, we're talking NY and PA, no longer New England.
Henry, as I understand the question you are looking only for roads that operated in NY and PA. The four I think you have in mind are:
Wellsville, Addison & Galeton - final abandonment on 1979
Southern New York Ry. - a former interurban abandoned in 1972
Coudersport & Port Alegheny - abandoned in 1970
Unadilla Valley - abandoned in 1960
Mark
KCSfan Henry, as I understand the question you are looking only for roads that operated in NY and PA. The four I think you have in mind are: Wellsville, Addison & Galeton - final abandonment on 1979 Southern New York Ry. - a former interurban abandoned in 1972 Coudersport & Port Alegheny - abandoned in 1970 Unadilla Valley - abandoned in 1960 Mark You got the 100% of half the answer right.....fill in the missing information and you will have it all.
You got the 100% of half the answer right.....fill in the missing information and you will have it all.
Henry,
I'm not quite sure what additional info you are looking for but I'll add what little I know.
Before becoming the WA&G the line was a branch of the Baltimore & Ohio.
At one time the SNY Ry was the Southern New York Power & Railway Co.
The C&PA was the name of that railroad up until the time it was purchased by the Salzburgs who, I think, subsequently made it a part of their WA&G road..
A portion of the UV was formerly NYO&W trackage.
KCSfan Henry, I'm not quite sure what additional info you are looking for but I'll add what little I know. Before becoming the WA&G the line was a branch of the Baltimore & Ohio. At one time the SNY Ry was the Southern New York Power & Railway Co. The C&PA was the name of that railroad up until the time it was purchased by the Salzburgs who, I think, subsequently made it a part of their WA&G road.. A portion of the UV was formerly NYO&W trackage. Mark
UV and C&PA info is wrong...
After some further digging I have uncovered what I think may be the answers you are seeking.
The CP&A was originally chartered as the Coudersport & Olean but soon became the CP&A. I believe at least a portion of its route was originally built as the Jersey Shore, Pine Creek & Buffalo. In 1964 it was acquired by the WA&G (Salsburgs). I am not sure but apparently it continued to operate under the CP&A name uhntil its abandonment and never became a part of the WA&G.
The Utica & Unadilla Valley was the predecessor road that later became the UV. In 1941 the UV bought the New Berlin Branch of the "Old & Weary" which about doubled its total mileage.
Yes, the UV bought the Edmonston branch of the O&W when the Old Woman wanted to abandon it. UV wanted to preserve the conncetion with the O&W on the south end while connecting with the DL&W on the north end. C&PA is all in order. The WAG was the B&O island which was once part of the Buffalo and Susquehanna. Southern NY was a trolley or interurban from Oneonta to the Mohawk Valley, Little Falls and or Herkimer I believe. So you got them all and we are expecting a harder question from you than what I've posted!
Beginning in the 1930's and continuing after WW2 there was a unique arrangement between two major Class I roads relative to the operation of a certain shortline railroad. Each of the major roads would operate the shortline for alternate periods of five years. At the end of each five year period operation would switch from one to the other and the shortline would be shown in the OGs under the representation for which ever of the major roads that had operational control at the time.
What was the name of the shortline railroad. what were its endpoint terminals, and what two major roads had alternating control of its operation?
What is the name of the shortline that currently owns and still operates a portion of this line?
Are you sures there was only one? I know of several Chicago area switching operations and teminal lines that had similar agreements among their owners, St. Louis Terminal is another that comes to mind, and one of the lines in Buffalo, NY I believe. Also several in IL come to mind in and around Peoria.
henry6 Are you sures there was only one? I know of several Chicago area switching operations and teminal lines that had similar agreements among their owners, St. Louis Terminal is another that comes to mind, and one of the lines in Buffalo, NY I believe. Also several in IL come to mind in and around Peoria.
I can't say for sure as I don't know the details of any similar operating agreements. To the best of my knowledge the one I have in mind is unique in that it was actually operated by each of the two major Class I's with operational control changing hands from one to the other on a five year cycle.
If you are thinking of the IHB and BRC in Chicago, the TRRA in St. Louis and the P&PU in Peoria you are quite right that each of these were owned by several different major lines. However, when it came to operations, each of these terminal/switching roads were imdependent operating entities.
Interesting question, and I know I read about this railroad and the arrangement you mention, but the name and two Class I's escape me.
The 2 that come to mind are
1. The Central California Traction Company. Sacramento, Ca to Stockton. Western Pacific & Santa Fe.
2. Burlington - Rock Island In Texas Fort Worth to Houston. Railroad named in Railroad name.
Mostly a guess but it what came to mind when I read the quiz.
Rgds IGN
narig01 The 2 that come to mind are 1. The Central California Traction Company. Sacramento, Ca to Stockton. Western Pacific & Santa Fe. 2. Burlington - Rock Island In Texas Fort Worth to Houston. Railroad named in Railroad name. Mostly a guess but it what came to mind when I read the quiz. Rgds IGN
Good guess but neither of these are the road I have in mind. Its unique feature was the transfer of operating control from one Class I to the other every five years which, to the best of my knowledge, was a one of a kind arrangement.
Hint: The subject shortline was located in one of the west coast states.
Burlington-Rock Island, later the Joint Texas Division, had alternating five-year periods of operating control between CB&Q and RI. Two other roads with similar arrangements were the Sunset RR in California (SP-ATSF) and Oregon, California & Eastern in Oregon prior to Weyerhaueser control(SP-GN).
Now that you mention it, the Fort Worth and Denver was also a joint operation passing off authority between Burlington and Sante Fe I think.
The Sunset RR in California is the line I was looking for. Paul also correctly identified the SP and Santa Fe as the major roads that swapped operating control of it every five years.
I'm still looking for the endpoints of the Sunset and the road which today operates a portion of its former trackage.
I would guess the current operator is California Northern. To be honest I'm trying to rack my brains about this railroad. I would guess it is probably one of the many operations in the central valley. Their is one on the south side of Bakersfield that comes to mind that is currently run by RailAmerica.
I remember this one cause I called UP's call center(the sign still said SP) to report a malfunctioning crossing. If I remember correctly they said call RailAmerica.as the local signal maintainer had gone home for the weekend.
I think Paul should get to ask the next question since he was the one to identify the Sunset Ry. and the SP and Santa Fe operating arrangement. Narig was on the right track when he mentioned Bakersfield and Rail America. The 52.6 mile Sunset Ry. ran between Bakersfield and Shale, CA. The portion of it that is still active is operated today as the San Joaquin Valley RR, a Rail America company.
Yes Paul should get this. I could not remember the name of this RR. Santa Fe & SP had any numer of operations in the central valley. Somewhere I've got some pictures of some of this line. I can remember onne shot I took of a pair of SP GP9's out towards buttonwillow and a Santa Fe CF7 switching a carrot facility on the south side of Bakersfield.
One other item is the latter(Bakersfield) still has wig wags.
A lot of good memories of taking pictures of trains in the valley during high school(1970's)
rgds IGN
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