I was about to mention ACL but RC beat me to it. But I think its Zero was in Richmond, and the negatives were to connect with eitiher the RF&P or the C&O in Richmond.
And the other would be the CofG which did compete with the ACL, I think Savanna - Atlanta.
daveklepper I was about to mention ACL but RC beat me to it. But I think its Zero was in Richmond, and the negatives were to connect with eitiher the RF&P or the C&O in Richmond. And the other would be the CofG which did compete with the ACL, I think Savanna - Atlanta.
Johnny
I should have added "The CG had several zero mileposts."
ACL cooperated with, competed with, and later merged with the Atlanta Birmingham and Coast, connecting at Waycross GA for Dixie Route service.
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rcdrye ACL cooperated with, competed with, and later merged with the Atlanta Birmingham and Coast, connecting at Waycross GA for Dixie Route service.
But if you are lookiing for main-line competition for the ACL, the only real one was the SAL. I thought I had already mentioned the SAL, with, again, Richmond as Zero, and the possibility of again negative mileposts toconnect with the RF&P.
Maybe I thought I had posted it and the post didn't take for some reason? And the Gulf Coast, Jax - NO, was an L&N - SAL train. If I am correct about SAL, would be itneresting as to how Noralinia-Portsmouth was handled, with numbers rising northbound from Noralina on the basis of distance from Richmond via Noralina?I berlieve Flomaton was the Jc.
Both Seabord and ACL had many thru trains with RF&P, then PRR.
Well, each of you named two roads--SP and ACL, and L&N and SAL. The SP and the L&N interchanged the NYC-LA sleeper. The L&N and SAL interchanged several trains in what used to be known as River Junction, and is now known as Chattahoochee.
Dave did get the approximate location of the zero mileposts of the ACL and RF&P--Richmond, where both roads interchanged with the RF&P.
The ACL/RF&P interchange was at the Broad Street Station, with the ACL using RF&P tracks to reach the station via WAY and SAY; as well as I can tell from a 1935 ACL ETT the ACL track extended to the A wye (WAY-SAY) I cannot tell from any ETT or the SPV map where the ACL zero mp actually was--at the old Byrd Street station? The Seaboard System ETT I have shows, on the West Route of the Richmond Terminal TT of the Collier Sub, Broad Street at RF&P mp 2.4 (and the 1953 RF&P ETT I have indicates that Broad St. was at mp 0), AY at mp 1.7--then Meadow (4.8 miles from AY) at ACL mp 1.0
The SAL interchange with the RF&P was at Hermitage--3.8 miles north of the Main Street Station. The RF&P ETT gives deailed instruction for the engine change at this point.
I should have looked at my old ACL and SAL ETT's before even bresthing "negative" mileposts--SAL's station number for Hermitage is 03, with Main Street being 0.
Altogether, it seems to me that Dave found more of the answers after he cast about all over the East trying to find the SAL.
I may have asked this before. What is the railroad line curently operated by electricity that was elecxgrified before any other railroad line operated by electricity. I am excluding rapid transit, light rail, and streetcar lines, that cannot be accessed from the nationawide passenger and freight network or accomodagte standard freight and passengert dequipment, but not necessariliy double-stack.
New Haven's (Metro North) Stamford CT- New Canaan CT line. Electrified in 1901 at 600VDC, it was re-electrifed in 1908 to match the rest of NYNH&H's 11000VAC system.
Correct and hope to enjoy your question
This long-lived Milwaukee Road name train was listed in the public timetable in both directions, though in one direction only the end point times were listed along with a list of intermediate stops, along with the note "no baggage or passengers handled".
No. 57, The Fast Mail, was listed in the November, 1945, Guide with its departure time from Chicago and arrival times in St. Paul and Minneapolis, along with the list of the places where it did stop and the notation that it did not carry passengers or baggage in the column which otherwise would have shown the times at stations where it did stop.
The return trip took 35 minutes more--with more scheduled stops and some conditional stops. Apparently, not as much mail was in a hurry to reach Chicago as was going towards the Twin Cities.
C'mon, ask a hard one.
The November, 1945, Guide lists the Planter, an overnight train, as carrying a unique car. The train ran between two large southern cities, passing through the capital of one of the three states in which it ran. The car, owned by the road, was a Restaurant-Coach, 6 Section Sleeping Car.
Name the road and its parent, and the termini.
The Illinois Central, Memphis to and from New Orleans.
Not via the main line. Via what had been the main and/or former Yazoo and Mississippi Valley.
Three States: Tennessee. Mississippi, Louisiana, Went thrugh jACKSON, MISS.
Well, Dave, except for identifying the state capital, you got it. Go stand in the corner; it went through Baton Rouge. The Yazoo and Mississippi Valley ran through Vicksburg and Baton Rouge on its way from Memphis to New Orleans. It was listed in the Illinois Central section of the Guide, and was identified as being the Y&MV RR.
In the immediate post-WWII period, there were eight North American city transit systems that both operated PCC cars and whose tracks also saw interchange freightcar operation. Not always on the same tracks, and the freight in at least one case belonged to a different system using the transit system's tracks. Name the citiies and the systems, and describe the operations as best as you can. No such case is current.
Boston came close, as freight was delivered to Everett shops, and the sidings there and at Sullivan Square may have been owned by Boston El.-MTA, and there were several cases of tracks intrerleaved and gauntletted in the street with New Haven, Boston and Maine and Union Freight, but no sharing of track for freight delivered to other customers.
Hint: Obviously Milwaukee woiuld have counted if it had run PCCs. But it did not. Did run lots of trolleybuses though.
Since you did say "North American"...
1.Chicago CTA had PCC streetcars, PCC rapid transit, Interchange freight (for CMStP&P) on North Side main.
2. Kansas City Public Service ran interchange freight with its own motors on the Country Club line.
3. New York (Brooklyn) South Brooklyn Ry. was a subsidiary of BRT. BMT had PCC rapid transit. All of them ended up as part of MTA.
4. St. Louis Mo. Ill. Terminal double-enders to Alton shared track with Ill Term freight, StLPS had PCC cars.
5. D.C. (This might not be valid) DC transit took cars in interchange on northwest side near where WB&A had previously connected. Ended shortly after WWII, but DC had prewar PCCs.
6. Dallas. DR&T PCCs shared streets with Texas Electric, which had interchange freight on north and south sides of Dallas. TE freight locomotives used DR&T between the (M-K-T) interchanges.
7. Los Angeles. Both LA Transit and PE had PCCs, PE had interchange freight, some of it handled on streets shared with LA Transit.
8. Vancouver. BC Electric had a few PCCs, and handled electric interchange freight, mostly on its line to Chilliwack.
If you count freight interchanged between systems,but not in AAR-type equipment you can add Pittsburgh (West Penn Rys, via Trafford) where through freight cars from West Penn points were carried to a downtown freight house after the first PCCs were in service.
You got the correct eight. Where there was freight service and an inner third rail used by LAT PCC's, the track was owned by PE. And PE freight did appear on the Glendale-Burbank PE line, home of their PCCs.
And it is interesting that three out of the four systems that had double-end PCCs built, Dallas, PE, and IT, had some kind of interchange freight. The fourth double end series were for SF Muni. Now they run on tracks on the Embarcadaro that once saw SP freight trains.
The wide-gauge Red Arrow (Philly-Sub.) cars had PCC-style bodies but were not PCCs.
Note that Pittsbugh Railways and West Penn were wide-gauge.
Look Forward to your question.
This western city had streetcars operated by three separate companies, with some track sharing. Name the city, the three companies and the name that was used after all three of the operations were combined.
Sacramento, CA: (1) Sacramento Railways, then Sacramento Transit, then City Lines of Sacramento. (2) Central California Traction (during WWII freight-only elsewhere, one Sacramento streetcar line its only passenger operation.). (3) Sacramento Northern (freight-only during WWII, except one Sacramento streetcar line, and one each Yuba Ctiy-Marysville and Chico). The CCC and SN streetcar lines were taken over by City Lines of Sacramento during WWII and combined into one line. City Lines of Sacramento was a National City Lines subsidiary, and all lines were converted to bus as rapidly as GM bus production permitted after WWII, without much objection from any government or citizens' group. PCCs were never tried.
At one time Milwaukee also had three, with all three operating interurban lines as well, but the line to the north became part of the TMR&E..
Two of the three companies are correct. Northern Electric/Sacramento Northern and Central California Traction shared the electrified freight belt and a couple of blocks near the Interurban Union Station. The third company had an entirely different origin and was not named Sacramento Railways or Sacramento Transit. The company is still very much in business under the same name it used then. At one time it had an interest in several other traction properties in California as well.
All three operations were purchased by Sacramento City Lines in 1943. SCL was a new company owned by National City Lines.
Correction:
Sacramento Gas and Railway or Sacramento Electric, Gas, and Railway. owned by Pacific Gas and Electric Co. (PG&E) It may all have happend in 1943, but I am pretty sure the PG&E purchase by SCL occured before its purchase of the CCT and SN lines. So for a short time SCL was one of three companies. You can correct me if my memory is wrong on this.
PG&E (still in business serving California gas and electric customers) sold its Sacramento operation to SCL in early 1943. You are technically correct that the CCT operation was acquired a couple of days, and the SN operation a couple of months later, both purchases delayed by negotiating payment for use of tracks used by freight trains (CCT and SN retained ownership). The joint CCT/SN freight belt, used in part by CCT's 8th street line, was also used by SCL until the line was converted to bus in 1946. The former SN service with Birneys also ran until 1946, with former PG&E cars. SN's freight operations were rerouted off the streets not long after. Like SN city operations elsewhere, Sacramento remained a 5 cent fare until SCL acquired it.
In the postware era the Atlantic Coast Line had two through streamliners from MY to Flordida, the East Coast Champion and the West Coast Champion, with coaches and sfter a frew years Pullman sleepers, all reserved of course. Plus the iwnter=season-only Florida Special, all-Pullman. The Seabord had the Silver Meteor and Silver Star. These all allowed coach passengers to between New York and Florida without changing in Washington. Other trains in general had through sleepers but not through coaches. There was one and only one exception, and only one of the two railroads had it. You ride coach on this train without a reservation between New York and Florida without chaning in Washington. Train, railroads, and matters of special significance about this train.
daveklepper In the postware era the Atlantic Coast Line had two through streamliners from MY to Flordida, the East Coast Champion and the West Coast Champion, with coaches and sfter a frew years Pullman sleepers, all reserved of course. Plus the iwnter=season-only Florida Special, all-Pullman. The Seabord had the Silver Meteor and Silver Star. These all allowed coach passengers to between New York and Florida without changing in Washington. Other trains in general had through sleepers but not through coaches. There was one and only one exception, and only one of the two railroads had it. You ride coach on this train without a reservation between New York and Florida without chaning in Washington. Train, railroads, and matters of special significance about this train.
The Havana Special had a lounge car Richmond-Jacksonville, and a diner Washington-Jacksonville. The Palmland had a Washington-Miami lounge sleeper and a Washington-Jacksonville diner. The Sun Queen had no lounge car, but a diner for all meals.
1945 =
1945 = WWII
1950?
Dave, this informationis from the November 1945 Guide. I do not have easy access to my 1950-60 timetables, but I can assure you that the SAL trains, as well as the Havana Special, continued to have New York-Miami coaches into the sixties.
My experience was when I was stationed at Fort Bragg, frequently using the ACL at Fayetteville, and the SAL at Southern Pines, 1955-1956. (I returned to using both routs frequently 1957 - 1996 on profesisonal travel.) At least part of the year, the only through coaches on the SAL NY - Miami and NY - Tampa were on the Silver Meteor and Silver Star. Possibly the Palmland and Sunland did have through coaches part of these years, but not all through these years. You did mention the ACL train I was looking for. There is something special about the history of this train, which I am sure you know, both the origin of the train and why it was named, and then what changed well before its dicontinuence later. Can I ask you to state this history and then ask the next question?
When the Hanava Special was inaugurated, it was an all-Pullman (as I recall) train that ran New York City-Key West, with setout sleepers in Miami. In Key West, it connected with a steamer line to Havana. The hurricane in 1935 destroyed the extension to Key West, so it became a New York City-Miami train. In time, Tampa/Sarasota and St.Petersburg sections were added.
When the FEC was struck and an agrement was reached with the SAL so that ACL trains were able to go into Miami, it no longer ran to Miami, but still provided service to the west coast, with car changes in Jacksonville, and was renamed the Gulf Coast Special. By February of 1967, the overnight service between Jacksonville and and St. Petersburg was discontinued, but the service to Tampa remained for a while.
There was a through 8 section Pullman that was operated between an important river city and the capital of a southern state. The equpiment listing shows dining car service into the capital city, so it seems that it was provided in the Pullman car. Coach passengers had to change along the way.
Name the termini of the car, the road, and the train
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