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Classic Railroad Quiz (at least 50 years old).

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 14, 2015 1:52 AM

Further on northern Manhattan.  Spuyten Dyvel was located where it is. But just east of the rock cliff located north of the Metro North tracks, the river turned north about 1/3 mile, ok half a km, then east, and then south along where the RoW of the Putnam div of the Central was located.  The area between the old and new channels is known as Marble Hill.  On the north bank is located the station of that name on the MN, formerly the Central, Hudson Div., and directly above the east end of that station is the 225th Street Station of the "1" subway line.

In my youth this area was politically and post-office-wise a part of Manhattan.  I think now it is officialy part of The Bronx.

I was wrong about the M100 bus. Although at first it did directly replace the K streetcar, now it has been diverted at its north end to serve the Inwood neighborhood, and another TA bus line crosses the Kings Bridge (or Broadway Bridge if you insist.).

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, January 17, 2015 11:29 AM

Won't at least one reader look at the refeerence map?   The answer should be obvioius.  It is all IRT.  One elevated and one subway station, both with more than one service, but bypassed by a route that although used only during rush hours is still shown mapwise as a normal elevated route.

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Posted by NorthWest on Saturday, January 17, 2015 1:51 PM

Third Avenue-149th Street, in the Bronx? El replaced by Bx55, though now changed. This is the only one that makes sense to me looking at the map. I'm really sorry that I haven't been able to answer sooner. Remember, anyone can answer! It doesn't have to be the first person to guess.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 18, 2015 8:49 AM

100% correct.Up to Unification, June 1940, and the abandonment of the north portion of the 2nd Avenue Elevated, Rush Hour 2nd Avenue expresses, returning as locals (gate-car trains) or light moves without passengers (composites, former subway cars) ran as far as Freeman Street on the structure shared with Seventh Avenue and Lexington Avenue subway trains.  After Unification, these trains were shifted to Third Avenue, and ran with closed-platform wood cars conveted from gate cars.  At all hours, a paper transfer was available and this served as an alternative to the through service.

In addition to the double-track cut-off, the earlier connection just north of the 149th Street Station remained available.  It was used for SAturday morning rush hours trains as long as they lasted.  The structure was opened with 2nd Avenue trains running all the way to 180th Street Bronx Park.  Then the 7th Avenue trains were intoduced and then Lexington Avenue. Upon the introduction of the latter, 2nd Avenue trains were cut back fromBronx Park to Freeman Street.

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, January 18, 2015 10:50 AM

Thanks, Dave. Your questions are quite a challenge, but that is what makes them so fun. It is interesting that despite the rather close location, they were never connected, though I suspect that this arrangement was always intended to be temporary.

Alright, for the next question:

This railroad system consisted of two parts that were connected by a long government-owned section. This was intended to be taken over by the system, but was refused due to high construction costs.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 19, 2015 4:32 AM

Was this in Canada, not the USA?

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 19, 2015 4:34 AM

I think this was the case with one of the railroads that eventually became part of the Canadian Government owned Canadian National, but had some private ownership in general just before.

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Posted by rcdrye on Monday, January 19, 2015 7:35 AM

This sounds like the Southern Railway's main line, spliced in the middle by the North Carolina Railroad, still leased by NS.

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Posted by NorthWest on Monday, January 19, 2015 10:23 AM

Dave, you are on the right track. After the government took over the system, two distinct parts of the system retained their original names.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, January 19, 2015 10:28 AM

rdcry's answer is also correct, except that Souothern, not NS later, did obtaini ownership, which my understanding of your question rules out.

I think the answer is Grand Trunk and Grand Trunk Western, but the precise junction points elulde me at the moment.   I think the St. Clair tunnel was the big government expense.

From and including the tunnel all the way to Montreal?

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Posted by NorthWest on Monday, January 19, 2015 11:10 AM

Dave, you are correct and get the next question.

The government-owned section was the National Transcontinental Railway. Grand Trunk Pacific built from Winnipeg to Prince Rupert with government help, and the NTR was built by the government to connect the GTP with the main Grand Trunk system. GT was to take over the NTR, but, being essentially bankrupt, did not. The NTR cost several times the estimated cost, partly due to the failure of the Quebec Bridge twice, and so the GT refused. Shortly after, the government took over GT and merged it with CN, leaving GTW, CV and GT out due to the border crossings. The St. Clair Tunnel was constructed by GT when it was still private, nationalization occured in the early 1920s.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 5:02 AM

Name the founders of the Central Pacific Railroad, the location of the San Francisco streets names after them, and the specific transit line on each street.  Optional extra, the history of each of the transit lines as well as you can without overwhelming research.

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 6:54 AM

None of the big four have a major San Francisco street named after them. 

Stanford St is a one way alley between Brannan and Townsend.  It is only a block from the site of the former SP Depot.

Crocker Avenue runs south from Mission near the city line.  It may have had a Market St. Ry line at one time.

Hopkins Ave is a one block connecter in the Twin Peaks area.  One of Muni's two tunnels may go under it for all I can tell.

Huntington Drive is in a development near the Zoo. Huntington Park is at California and Taylor, served by the California Street Cable Car.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 8:38 AM

What about Theodor(?) Judah's role?

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Posted by rcdrye on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 9:40 AM

Judah wasn't one of the big four (he died before the CP got underway), but SF Muni's N line is on the street named for him. The N line traverses the Embarcadero from the CalTrain station, Market Street subway and the Sunset Tunnel before street running on Judah to Ocean Beach. Some of the trackage near the west end of the Sunset Tunnel was jointly operated withthe Market Street Railway until it was absobed by Muni in 1944.

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 10:41 AM

"None of the big four have a major San Francisco street named after them"

Now we know what the people in San Francisco thought of the big four. Apparently they thought more of Judah, who looked for a feasible route over the Sierra Nevada.

Johnny

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Posted by Dragoman on Tuesday, January 20, 2015 8:33 PM
Of course, they were represented in San Francisco in many other ways. Three of the big hotels on Nob Hill are on the sites of their mansions, and bear their names (transit connection: all 3 cable car lines intersect in the vicinity). Also there is the Crocker Amazon neighborhood. But, it is true, no major San Francisco boulevards.
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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 6:30 AM

They did a little better in Oakland.  Crocker and Huntington got streets, Stanford got an Avenue.  Hopkins only got a Place. Judah got nothing.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 8:36 AM

My reading of the Hungerford 1911 book is the Judah was the one who got the others interested in the project.   So perhaps it is a just reward that there is at least a street railway (OK, "light rail" today) on the street named for him.

i understand that for the most part this is now a reserved "transit lane" route, and that there are pavement differences that define the RoW within the street,  Emergency vehicles allowed, of course.  

For many years from the city end of the Twin Peak and Sunset Tunnels, the latter used by the N, Judah line, the N ran down Market to the Ferry Terminal.  With the introduction of PCC cars, it was rerouted to the loop to the Transbay Terminal, by then a bus terminal and not an interurban if my memory of dates is correct.  It and the J Church line were the last to be rereouted into the subway with then-new Boeing cars, the three Twin Peaks lines were rerouted first.

Await rc's question

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 10:16 AM

This northeastern carrier finally got its own air-conditioned coaches in 1946, though it had been operating AC coaches at least occasionally in its through trains since the late 1930s.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 10:42 AM

rcdrye

This northeastern carrier finally got its own air-conditioned coaches in 1946, though it had been operating AC coaches at least occasionally in its through trains since the late 1930s.

 

Maine Central?

Johnny

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, January 21, 2015 12:19 PM

Maine Central had some AC equipped heavyweights (besides, MEC's P-S cars came in 1947!). In at least one history of the road I'm looking for it was stated that it never owned any A/C coaches.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 22, 2015 1:42 AM

Either Central Vermont or Bangor and Aroostick. Probably the CV, with the assumption by the author off that book that any air-conditioned cars, not PRR, HYNH&H, or B&M on the CV were actually CN cars.   And for the most part, they were.   But CV probably owned a few, and CN would not be above having them all serve on the Grand Trunk or Grand Trunk Western with hardly a visit to their own railroad!

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 22, 2015 7:21 AM

You're in the right neighborhood.

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, January 22, 2015 10:06 AM

The Rutland. The Green Mountain Flyer and Mount Royal received air conditioned coaches in 1946.

Mark

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 22, 2015 12:10 PM

Correct.  B&M (and, more rarely NYC) coaches had occasionally operated through as early as about 1938, but the Rutland got its own A/C coaches used from the Pere Marquette in 1946.  My best guess is that they were "Ice" A/C, though I haven't been able to confirm it.  Of course Pullmans on the Mount Royal were air conditioned before 1946.

Back to Judah Street - like Church Street it does have boarding islands for the LRVs but the traffic lane isn't reserved.  It does have an HOV diamond painted on it at intervals (at least in some areas), but cars are often found there.

Your question, Mark!

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Posted by KCSfan on Thursday, January 22, 2015 5:02 PM

In the late 1930's what impoverished railroad upgraded its one name train which included Otto Kuhler designed semi-streamlining of its steam locomotives? Name the railroad, and the train.

Mark 

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, January 22, 2015 5:28 PM

The legendary New York Ontario and Western's Mountaineer.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 22, 2015 10:00 PM

You got there first!   With repainted wood-sheathed cars!  The NYO&W did not own any steel coaches.

Occasionally some would be borrowed from the West Shore.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, January 23, 2015 7:14 AM

rcdrye

The legendary New York Ontario and Western's Mountaineer.

Right train and road. The Old and Weary's maroon and black with orange striping "stream styled" 4-8-2's were attractive engines.

Mark 

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