Streamliner speeds

[timz]

Following WW II several roads removed the ATC equipment claiming it was to expensive for the benefit of 100 mph operation. But UP and AT&SF kept it over there long routes to the west coast.

As I recall UP had cab signals (or ATC or something) on one subdivision-- North Platte to Cheyenne, maybe?-- before WWII; SFe may not have had any ATS or anything else west of Kansas City before WWII. Most of the UP cab signals and SFe ATS was installed after the 1947 ICC ruling.

Has anyone ever found an "89-mph rule"?

[Los Angeles Rams Guy]

At the crossing at Rondout, IL the Milwaukee Road had a famous sign that said "SLOW TO 90 MPH".

It is interesting that it takes Amtrak a couple of hours longer to go from the Twin Cities to Chicago than the Milwaukee, Burlington, Chicago and NorthWestern and others did in the late 1930's - in some cases, with trains pulled by steam engines.

Not just "interesting" - also embarassing as well.

[diningcar]

Santa Fe had several locations with ATS but their route between Dodge City, KS and La  Junta, CO was considered their racetrack because of its length, 202 miles. This route through the Arkansas River Valley was without any siignificant grade or curviture. In the era following WW II the Super Chief and Fast Mail Train # 7 averaged 75 MPH over the entire distance according to the employee timetable. They had no stops but several speed restrictions for small towns and a few curves. If the train was late in arriving at either Dodge City from the east or La Junta from the west it was not unusual for the "hogger" to make up the time over this 202 miles and we can all surmise that the built in safety of ATS allowed him the luxery of 100 MPH.  

[wjstix]

At the crossing at Rondout, IL the Milwaukee Road had a famous sign that said "SLOW TO 90 MPH".

It is interesting that it takes Amtrak a couple of hours longer to go from the Twin Cities to Chicago than the Milwaukee, Burlington, Chicago and NorthWestern and others did in the late 1930's - in some cases, with trains pulled by steam engines.

[gbrewer]

I know that the cab signal, 80 mph or more rule is quite old.

I guess "old" depends on your prospective. I remember before the 89 mph limit was imposed. And I am sure I experianced trains going faster than that on the AT&SF, CB&Q and IC although I don't know if they had ATC in the area or not.

Once after it was imposed, I was riding the Denver Zephyr west of the Mississippi and the brakeman told me that until recently, the track had been rated at 100 mph. I do know that CB&Q had ATC (even on steam), but probably not in that area since we were observing the 89 mph limit at the time.

 

[Mario_v]

Thanks for the answer ;

I remember seeing Illinois Central schedules in wich I saw times between statios that only trains with operational speeds of 100 mph could reach, for example, 39 minutes allowed to one of their crack trains (cannot remember if it was the Panama Ltd or the City of New Orleans) for the 54 miles between Effingham and Centralia, Ill. I've also read that ACL, under the presidence of Champion McDowell, developed some trackwork in their mainlines, wich permitted the operation of trains at 100 mph, between 1954 and 1957, with this value being reduced to 90, due to the excessive cost of maintaining the track for such high speeds. I guess this was a factor that weighted too much in the compani's final balance sheet.

 I know that PTC and other systems are the future, but it also has an exteme cost, of not only maintenance, but also for its development.

Now one cannot forget that whith a diferent track condition from nowadays, it was quite a feat keeping these sort of operations.

But there's still one company that is a mistery to me. Milwaukee Rd, Did they operated at 100 right up untill the end with their Hiawathas ?

[passengerfan]

Those trains operated with ATS or ATC in the districts where they reached 100 mph and more. AT&SF, CB&Q, ACL, CRI&P, CMSTP&P, UP and several others that don't come immediatly to mind at 4:30 AM all operated trains with the ATS installed. Following WW II several roads removed the ATC equipment claiming it was to expensive for the benefit of 100 mph operation. But UP and AT&SF kept it over there long routes to the west coast. As did the CB&Q for most of their routes. Now there is talk about to become law that all mainline tracks be equipped with PTC and even better system than ATC.

Al - in - Stockton  

[Mario_v]

Hello all

One of the things that from time to time crosses my mind is the fact that some of the ancient streamlined trains seemed to be really fast. I know of some examples - Santa Fe, Milwaukee, ACL - wich in some cases and at least at a given time had their trains running at 100 mph, but after browsing thru an edition of the old 'Official Guide', I still get to have this doubt. Would all this companies be having trains doing all this speed ? if it was the case, wich speeds would they reach ? Was there any form of cab signal installed ? I know that the cab signal, 80 mph or more rule is quite old.