Good morning Captain Tom and all present!!
Ah, Leon! Good to see you again! No, tonight I only want a cup of coffee. I have to leave soon.
Kind of a SP Day today! Good for Dave and good for me!
Doug – Thanks for the X2000 info! Always interesting to read what other think and know about that train. Most of this info is correct but some numbers are not. First of all the traction motors are frame-mounted, the frame of the truck that is. Each motor is producing 815 kW, 1,092 hp of power.X2000 (the 20 first train sets) was not ordered until 1986, the development of it started 1975. The first test runs started in August 1989 and revenue service September 4 1990.The tilt system does not work below 44 mph. One X2000 train set was bought by China and is still in service there.Southern Pacific Passenger Trains seems to be a very interesting book! A book that should be sitting in my book case! Tom – Congratulations to your promotion to Chief Vacuumer!!Novice? Well, it took me three tries to make the first part and then I was very generous accepting one of my answers. No, no! I probably did not make myself clear, the cab shot is actually from the old country. I showed it because the nature is very similar to the nature in your shot! We made a stop at Harpers Ferry on the way back to Washington D.C. and then we made a photo run with the X2000 across that long bridge. The SP ad can’t be correct. Sunset Limited did not stop in Bisbee, AZ. It must have been a connection from Benson, Az down to Bisbee. Bisbee is less than 10 miles from the Mexican border. Nice book covers!!Lars – Thanks for those video covers! SP is also my favorite road! For Dave I’ll add this picture of SP Class S-2 #5021, a beautiful locomotive.BK – Theatrical DVDs? Hmm. I wonder what kind of theater that was? No, no, don’t tell. It was probably something like Shakespeare. DL – I am looking forward to your trip reports!The German town with the suspended cars is Wuppertal. CM3 – Special operation is not incorrect! It was very special!James – There are quite a few nice station buildnings still standing in the US! The tilting system on the X2000 is only for the comfort of the passengers, it is not necessary for running the train up to 40% faster through the curves. Interesting info on #988! I probably have a picture of it since it is in North Freedom now. I have to check my pictures. I visit North Freedom every time I visit my friends in Baraboo, WI and I’ll go there in May this year.
Eric
Good morning Tom and friends. I'll have a light breakfast please. Busy day at the bar yesterday! Nice posts from DL and CM3. My pictures didn't come through? I see the boss man posted a fine Sunset Limited ad. Very colorful and informative. James put up some nifty pix and stuff on the Milwaukee, and DL has me ready to burn the book where I got my X2000 information. I thought everything in writing was always true ... right? Speaking of which, here's another book revue:
Sunset Limited: The Southern Pacific Railroad and the Development of the American West. 1850-1930, by Richard J. Orsl
1896 cartoon depicts President Collis P. Huntington as an octopus squeezing the life out of California
As the power and influence of railroads grew in the second half of the 19th century, their public image suffered as newspaper reports, political speeches, editorials, and even literature painted them as monopolistic, abusive, and self-interested.
The Southern Pacific was the object of scorn from many quarters, a prominent example being Frank Norris's 1901 novel, The Octopus, which depicted the struggles of farmers and settlers against the mighty railroad. Richard J. Orsl argues that historians have sheepishly gone along with the robber-baron stereotype, focusing on the "Big Four" founders Collis P. Huntington, Leland Stanford, Charles Crocker, and Mark Hopkins, rather than the larger context of the railroad's development activities. He writes: "By dutifully, and often accurately, reciting the depredation of the Big Four, historians have oversimplified, de-emphasized, or completely ignored the complex role played by the Southern Pacific, for generations its territory's largest economic institution, in the process of growth and change that revolutionized California and the West from the 1860s into the early 20th century."
Rather than being a hindrance, SP was a catalyst in the region's growth, often providing basic infrastructure for settlement and economic progress when local and federal governments were unable or unwilling to do so, according to Orsl, a retired professor of history at California State University, Hayward. He supports this argument with a thorough and highly detailed analysis of four key areas to which the railroad contributed significant time, personnel, and material - land settlement and promotion, water management, agricultural development, and conservation. Relying on primary sources from numerous historical collections, Orsl argues persuasively that SP's management believed that the progress of the railroad was tied directly to the progress of the region, and behaved according to that precept.
His introduction traces Southern Pacific's development from its founding in 1864 through the late 1920s. Included are the building of the Central Pacific (soon to become part of SP) through the Sierra Nevada mountains range to Promontory, Utah, to link with the Union Pacific and form the transcontinental railroad; the expansion east to Texas; the acquisition by E.H. Harriman's Union Pacific; and the subsequent forced divestiture of SP by UP.
Orsl hits his stride in the next four sections of Sunset Limited. Looking at the carrier's land-grant policies, he points out that, instead of squandering its land grants for speculative purposes, SP sought to sell the bulk of its land in relatively small tracts, usually no more than 80 acres, to individual farmers. The aim was to put as much land as possible to productive agricultural use, creating traffic for the railroad, as well as to provide a strong framework for economic development of the region by populating it with family farms.
Southern Pacific was a tireless promoter of its service area, particularly California. Developing regional displays for fairs and expositions around the country and overseas, as well as publishing promotional pamphlets, posters, and magazines, the railroad helped attract thousands of immigrants to the region.
To support the growth of agriculture and increases of population, SP became the primary force behind water management. It developed irrigation and water systems, as well as flood-control measures, and supported public and private projects, ultimately joining a good-faith effort to work with the U.S. Reclamation Service. This partnership became onerous over time, and SP ultimately dropped its association with the federal initiative.
For several years, SP ran agricultural demonstration trains to distribute the latest scientific information about farming methods, pest control, plowing techniques, and other issues. Working with professors from land-grant colleges in the region, many of whom traveled on the trains to provide lectures and demonstrations, the railroad helped improve the overall quality of agricultural production. The company also played a constructive role in increasing the geographic reach of California's markets by acquiring specially designed cars to keep produce cooler through improved airflow. The formation of the Pacific Fruit Express subsidiary in 1906 further expedited the movement of western produce to eastern markets.
Sp also successfully worked with state and federal governments in conservation activities and formed a closer alliance with John Muir, naturalist and founder of the Sierra Club, William F. Herrin, SP vice president and chief counsel, helped Muir secure passage at state and federal bills returning Yosemite Valley to the U.S. government for inclusion in Yosemite National Park.
The railroad promoted forestry management and federal regulation of grazing lands. It also maintained firefighting trains, steamed up and ready to go 24 hours a day, seven days a week, during dry seasons.
Orsl's provocative and original work is a significant contribution to the historical record of the role that railroads played in the building of the West. His book refutes many popular notions about the company's alleged stranglehold of California, demolishing, for example, Frank Norris' fictional recounting of the 1880 "Battle of Mussel Slough" between squatters and the railroad in San Joaquin Valley.
The writing flows smoothly, which is impressive, given the large amount of information being presented. Sunset Limited contains nearly 200 pages of notes, along with a moderate number of illustrations.
SP fire crew practices at Truckee in 1925; and college students visit agricultural train at Chico around 1910.
<critique by David C. Lester, editor of R&LHS Newsletter>
Nice neighbor
Courtesy: http://www.viarail.ca/
G'day Gents!
Tuesday and time for breakfast at the Bar by the Ballast!
Coffee's hot - pastries fresh ‘n breakfasts ready to order!
Big surprise for yesterday was NOT the quantity and quality of material, but the ABSENCE of wolfman Pete! Saw him on-line a couple of times, but nothing Posted. That means he's either experiencing ‘puter problems or is not feeling up to par. Hope all's well . . .
Last time we saw Rob was on Feb 28th . . .
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS:
James at 8:39 PM ‘n 8:56 PM yesterday: Double-header from our Minnesota Connection! Still engaged in the "catch up" phase, but some quality stuff from Duluth!
No problems with MILWAUKEE ROAD being featured as the "Theme for the Day" next Tuesday. Just keep in mind that YOU will have to kick it off - be the first. If you cannot do it on Tuesday morning, then start off things Monday NIGHT. The rest of us will follow along . . . THANX for the offer.
Yes, yes -DOMEitory, now you're cookin'!!
Active "old time" railroad stations, terminals and depots are hard to find these days. Even the ones that have survived are mere shadows of what they once were. It's good that those interested in restoration have organized successful efforts to keep some of those "palaces" open to the public. Just a darned shame one cannot find a "bunch" of trains to choose from! <groan>
Winnipeg is probably the closest Canadian city to you where you can still experience a bit of the nostalgia from days gone by. However, the Canadian only runs three days per week in each direction, then the train up to Churchill on Hudson Bay also operates on a limited schedule with a night-time departure and early morning return. Still, the area is worth the visit and should you ever do it, be sure to visit an adjacent area called the "Forks." It's named that for the confluence of major rivers that meet up in Winnipeg. Lots ‘n lots of railroad history still remains, although much of what you'll see is geared up for the shopper and tourist.
RS2 locos are "cool" - one of my favorite models is a rather vintage AHM ALCO RS2 in NYC livery - lightning bolt scheme. Really like it! Thanx for the Milwaukee Road run down . . .
Eric at 12:34 AM today: Ohhhhhhhhh, misread once again. Best get used to reading with BOTH eyes!
I seriously DOUBT that the SP ad is incorrect. It all has to do with the era that the ad was run. Perhaps there was trackage - perhaps not. But there had to be a way to get passengers to and from an advertised stop. Something to look into . . . . Thanx for pickin' up on it!
By the by, here's a URL that may shed some light onto Bisbee and railroad right of way:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Pedro_and_Southwestern_Railroad
Man that steam loco is a beauty of a beast!
I thought the SAME thing when BK referred to his DVDs as "theatrical." <grin>
Doug at 5:42 AM today: More "light" reading from the barn weevil!
Two weekday mornings in a row - better watch it, you'll have us thinking that you're baaaaaaack!
It's interesting how from time to time there are "references" made to "errors" in published works. So, here's how I approach that - and it has happened to me MANY times with my Fallen Flags and Nostalgia series of ‘stuff' AND material from Wikipedia. If someone finds "fault" but cannot provide a bona fide reference to back up their "claim" - fuhgeddaboudit. Simple, eh The Ether is full of misinformation. It's most time consuming, but certainly worth the effort, to sort through the BS and anecdotal crap in order to get to the FACTS. I'll stick with the published works (books ‘n reputable magazines) until PROVEN otherwise.
So, how are things progressing on the home front
Interesting "moon shot"!
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing.
Boris, serve ‘em all of the "spiked" OJ they can handle!
Tom
The Passenger Railroad Fallen Flags of "Our" Place #6
Atlantic Coastline (ACL)
A form of this was initially Posted on Page 114 of the original Thread
source: Classic American Railroads
Caveat: The information provided is NOT all inclusive and is reflective only of the periods mentioned.
Headquarters: Jacksonville, FL
Route mileage in 1950: 5,528
Locomotives in 1963 (all diesel-electric):
Freight: 170
Passenger: 62
Dual mode (freight/passenger): 234
Switchers: 119
Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars - 28,847; Passenger cars - 405
Principal routes in 1950:
Richmond, VA-Tampa, FL, via Jacksonville and Orlando.
Wilson-Wilmington, NC
Wilmington-Pee Dee (Florence) SC
Winston-Salem, NC-Florence
Florence-Atlanta
Brunswick, GA-Montgomery, AL
Birmingham, AL-Waycross, GA
Albany-Dunnellon, FL
Jacksonville-St. Petersburg, FLA via Gainesville, Leesburg and Trilby
Dupont, GA-Naples, FL
Passenger trains of note:
East Coast Champion (New York-Miami)
West Coast Champion (New York-Tampa & St. Petersburg & Sarasota)
Tamiami Champion - Predecessor of East and West Coast Champions
Florida Special (New York-Miami & St. Petersburg)
Miamian (Washington-Miami)
Vacationer (New York-Miami)
Havana Special (New York-Key West, FL)
Palmetto (New York-Savannah & Augusta & Wilmington)
Everglades (New York-Jacksonville)
Gulf Coast Special (New York-Tampa & Ft. Myers & St. Petersburg; formerly Havana Special)
Of note: North of Richmond, RF&P and PRR handled passenger trains.
South of Jacksonville, FEC handled trains bound for Miami and Key West.
SAL handled trains headed for Miami south of Auburndale, FL in 1963.
Other carrier's trains destined to Florida, such as the City of Miami - South Wind - Flamingo - Dixie Limited - Dixie Flyer - Seminole and Southland were combined with named ACL trains.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
ACL F7 #531 Champion (credit: Robert West)
ACL ad "The Champion" Speedy New York - Miami Streamliner (from: www.getcruising.com/rails)
ACL #538 E7A (Original line drawing art by Stan Lytle, enhanced with road colors and other details by Jack Bleiberg - from: www.getcruising.com/rails)
Enjoy!
Ahoy Cap'n Tom 'n fellow travelers at the bar!
Ruth, it's time for a frosty cold mug of Keiths Ale, a Larsman special hero sandwich - ham, Swiss, mustAHd 'n buttAH, two large pickles from the barrel and a saucer of briine for Tex. Go ahead and give Awk his seed tray, Frostbite his ice cubes 'n Boris his small jar of pickled pig's feet! <grin. And of course, the change is yours.
So, where in blazes has Pete disappeared to??? How am I supposed to "manage" 'round here without either the Bar Chandler (Rob) or his assistant (Pete)
Hey, Pete! I sent you an e-mail . . . hope all's ok.
Surely you can't be 'supervising' whatever basement work is going on, that's what you're paying those guys for!
What's new 'round here other than Cap'n Tom keeping the wheels on the wagon with yet another fine Fallen Flags for this day! Love the ACL, whether down in the Keys or back here at the "island paradise," it looks fine to me!
Liked that SP from yesterday afternoon too! Seemed like we had quite a bit of Southern Pacific these past few days, even B4 West Coast S Dave checked in. Good stuff!
Busy night with two fine efforts put forth by our young friend, James and of course Eric, the desert Swede!
Really not much to bore you guys with today as things 'round here are same-ol, same-ol, if yaknowwutImean!
By the way, my afternoons are getting rather TIGHT and I doubt that my "slot" will be kept for much longer. I've tried to post in the mid to late afternoons, but we've got some things on our plate 'round here interfering with my playtime activites. So, if anyone out there can pick it up, I'd appreciate it. Sure helps Cap'n Tom from having to do it all, and of course keeps us moving forward on the thread. I'll be around, but more than likely in the mornings!
Really great to see the guys reporting back with how they did on the Quiz. I too find it rather incredible to learn that Eric wound up at the first level - Novice - who wuddathunkit
BK 'n Lydia at the Journeyman level - fine job, especially since they were gone for so long.
CM3 I'm NOT Shane! as an Oracle - what else, huh
Doug, the self-annointed barn weevil says he's a Journeyman - good job!
Sorry if I've missed anyone - oh yeah, Pete is an Oracle as well!
Was a lot of fun, Cap'n Tom!
A round on me, Ruth my deAH, and sorry, but I've gotta get a move on . . .
Something to remember me by . . .
WWII "merchie" posters . . . .
Until the next time!
Lars
Good Afternoon Barkeep and all Present; coffee, p-lease; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Afternoon posts seem to be the way things are happening right now, but we have to "time manage" as best as we can.
First off, apologies to BK - Didn't mean to leave you out yesterday. Note to Tom - Confusion's a "way of life," I think.
James stopped by with some RSC2 material. Atlas did some of those back in N scale yrs ago. It was the only way I could get a NYC shell to drop onto the RS3 chassis when they came out with those. Anyway, a good catch and thank you.
Eric paid a visit with all sorts of comments.
Barndad visited with Collis P. Huntington material. He was a big player in this part of the world. Huntington, WV, is named after him. Years ago Cerinda Evans did a 2 vol. biography which is not all that bad. BTW, Sunset Limited in an excellent book - a copy sits in the SP section of the east wing.
Lars - Excellent posters. Have you seen the new book titled At Any Cost. It's about the S.S. Ohio and its trip to Malta in WW2. I'm about ½ way through it now.
OSP provided some fine material about the SP and the ACL. The Atlantic Coast Line had a variety of E units beginning with an E3 back in 1939. Incidentally this unit was r/b to an E8 in 1953.
They got their E7a units in 1945 and 1946, and, if memory serves, 10 E7b units in 1945. The ACL acquired 5 more E7s in 1948, and a pair of E7b units in 1956. These last two blt. For the RF&P in 1950; ACL purchased them in 1956 from EMD. ACL 544-548 were the last of their E7s - they came on the property in 1950.
The other day we had a question re types of coal stations on the C&O; herewith the answer (at least for main line stations in WV).
The C&O mainline in WV had coal stations at the following locations:
Ronceverte - Elevator
Hinton (2 stations) - Mainline - elevator; yard - elevator
Quinnimont - from cars (crane used to fill tenders from coal cars)
Thurmond - Elevator
Handley - Elevator
Charleston - From cars (Direct coaling machine); this was the only installation of its type on the C&O. Here's how it worked; the coal car was positioned over a pit. The coal was dumped into the pit and lifted to the locomotive tender by a continuous bucket chain. The chain dumped the coal into a chute which, in turn, fed it into the tender.
St. Albans - This was across the mainline until it knocked down in a wreck in the early 50s. - Elevator
and
Huntington - Elevator
The elevator coal dock was the typical concrete facility which you could find in many locations. Incidentally, the C&O loaded coal directly from mine tipples at two spots: Anstead, WV (Hawks Nest Branch) and at Dry Creek, WV (Cabin Creek Branch)
Hope this helps.
Work safe
Hi Tom and all.
A great Saturday and Monday at the bar. Something very light please RUTH as I had a real bad bout of Food poisoning or something starting early Sunday morning and pretty much wiping me out still not right and don't fancy food still but a lot better than yesterday. We ate out and luckily the bride had something different and was OK. I know I should have stuck to the food at Our Place.
What a great and pleasant surprise to see the post from West Coast Dave. May I add to what as been already said and say I am looking forward to June and please keep safe.
MIKE Thanks for links Great color photo of the B&O #6190 I wonder what was the purpose of the oil barrels on the platform.
I enjoyed the link to Julius Caesar; he seemed to have bad luck with the English weather.
Great pics of Shakespeare Tunnel. That is a handsome SE&CR loco one of her sisters survives and is in the National Railway Museum at York.
Great posts from DOUG. Glad the builders have arrived to fix your basement.
Those Jack Delano color shots are marvelous especially as they are over 60 years old now he must have had a very good camera those portrait shots are so clear.
Thanks for the X2000 info and pics. It seems the book reviewer was not too impressed with the first book on the SP passenger trains, but gave the second book reviewed a much better recommendation
I will send the Southern star signs to Alan and ask which sign he is. I think his birthday is coming up soon. I have some more pics of his German trip.
JAMES Thanks for the kind words on the photos. I saw on the weather that there was some very cold temperatures forecast for Duluth, so keep in the warm if you can.
Thanks for the great color pics the Santa Fe livery on the PA 1s seem to make the locos look more powerful and the B&O EM1 is a impressive engine
Many thanks for the interesting history of ALCO RSC-2 #988. It is good the loco was saved and in a museum.
I must agree with Eric there are some great railroad stations still left in the U.S. like Chicago's Union Station and although not used just for trains any more Kansas City Union Station is a wonderful building.
ERIC. I am not certain but I think that the main line steam in China as about finished. The only steam is being used at industrial locations, although I believe some of those sites have quite a bit of track and fairly long lines connecting them to the rail system.
Thanks for the photos; that one from the cab from Sweden does look remarkably similar to one Tom took in Canada.
SP 5021 IS a beautiful locomotive
LARS. It is only recently that Alan has been going to Europe to visit and travel on the railways there, although he has been going to Ireland for the steam trips for many years now. There are very few lines in the UK, both passenger and freight only that Alan has not traveled on.
Great SP material BK,TOM, DOUG and yourself have posted as a tribute to DAVE. The Visalia Electric Railroad looks an interesting line, no doubt when Dave gets back he will have some info on it.
Sorry about leaving you the chandelling duties the last day or so, hopefully I shall be back to normal now.
Thanks for the Merchie Posters; I know the people of Britain owe them a great debt for their bravery during the dark days of WWII.
BK Thanks for the kind words and may I agree with what you said about ROB.
Congratulation to LYDIA and you on the Journeyman in the Quiz, I see Tom is going to do a part 5
DL Great to see you back in the bar. Hope you are soon able to catch up as there as been a lot of fine posts at the bar
Eric posted a link to the suspended railway in Wuppertal, which I have posted below; it is very informative and contains an almost unbelievable piece about Tuffi the elephant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwebebahn_Wuppertal#_note-12
Yes those Bassett Lowke models were works of art. I have a link showing a Bassett Lowke loco at Rhyl in the early days of the railway.
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~stownsen/rhyl/rhylhist.htm
I have seen some of the Bassett Lowke models of ships in the museum in Liverpool and am looking forward to seeing the ones in Halifax.No doubt TOM will make sure I see them
Many thanks for the links.
I shall look forward to your reports of the trips you have been on.
CM3 Thanks for the answers on the locomotive naming it would be good to see the names on the B&M engines.
I had a look at the C&O historical website, as you say, there is some great photos there, and a site well worth returning to. Those are very interesting works photos of the M1 steam-electric turbine during its building.
That was indeed an interesting article and pictures on the B&O Big Sixes in Classic Trains to my mind one of the best cover photos they have done.
Thanks for the info on the different coal used in the locomotives of the different companies. I know since the run down of the British coal industry the preserved steam railways suffered a great deal with unsuitable coal, especially on some main line trips. The former Great Western locomotives were particularly hard hit as they were designed to burn Welsh steam coal. I think the problem as mainly been solved lately as I have not heard of any problems.
On the other hand at the end of BR steam on the Great Western, they ran a commemorative special with three of the best remaining Castle class locos where it was hoped 100 MPH
Remember Dec. 7th
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20021p/ww20021p.jpg
War Traffic Must Come First
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20037p/ww20037p.jpg
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20056p/ww20056p.jpg
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20041p/ww20041p.jpg
Save Waste Fats For Explosives
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20008p/ww20008p.jpg
Strong in the Strength of the Lord
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20185p/ww20185p.jpg
This Is The Enemy
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20014p/ww20014p.jpg
Together
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20276p/ww20276p.jpg
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20034p/ww20034p.jpg
http://www.eliillinois.org/00001_00/main/ww20183p/ww20183p.jpg
Library of Congress
Jack Delano
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3c20000/3c20000/3c20900/3c20966v.jpg
Daylight book cover
http://www.bookmine.com/images/60357.jpg
SP #1 CP Huntington
http://content.lib.washington.edu/transportation/image/49.jpg
Alco and Mt. Shasta
http://content.lib.washington.edu/transportation/image/147.jpg
PA1 Los Angeles 1953
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/0/004_restore_2.jpg.96900.jpg
4-8-4 San Francisco 1958
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/s/SP4460missionbay950.jpg.45403.jpg
F7 San Jose 1965
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/s/SP_6235_newhall_yards_June_1965RP.jpg.47063.jpg
FP7 Martinez, CA 1971
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/p/P_6459_at_Martinez_42571_Truckee_LTDRP.jpg.89805.jpg
http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/4/4449columbiacliffsbig.jpg.69110.jpg
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #22
Initially Posted on Page 158 of the original Thread
Here's something to enjoy regarding the Southern Pacific (SP) from a 1951 advertisement in my personal collection.
Did you hear what the ‘49er said about the
"City of San Francisco" "WHAT A TRAIN, PARDNER! SHE'S THE FASTEST THING ON WHEELS BETWEEN CHICAGO AND THE GOLDEN GATE! ANOTHER OF SP'S WONDERFUL WAYS WEST!" Did you know that you can board a modern streamliner in Chicago and travedl at your ease the same route the ‘49ers struggled over in the Gold Rush? Well, you can. In the crack extra-fare "City of San Francisco" for instance, or the "Overland" that shows you California's lovely High Sierra by day. Until you've done this you've never really seen the West. We've just issued a new folder we're rather proud of, "Planning Your Overland Route Trip." Tells you all about accommodations on these great "name trains" (finest Pullman; economical Chair Car). By the way, at San Francisco these streamliners connect with our famous "Lark," "Daylight" and "Starlight" south to Los Angeles, thence with other great S.P. streamliners eastward. Or with the new "Cascade" and "Shasta Daylight" northward, right past gorgeous 14,161 foot Mt. Shasta to the lovely Pacific Northwest. Mail that coupon today for free folders. "CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO" Chicago-San Francisco via Omaha, Ogden, Great Salt Lake, Reno, Oakland. 40 ½ hours westbound via CNW-UP-SP.
SP AMERICA'S MOST MODERN TRAINS
City of San Francisco drumheads
Train #101, City of San Francisco; 15 cars. Photographed: near Cheyenne, Wyo., December 4, 1948. (Denver Public Library - Fair Use/www.wikipeida.com)
A Real RR Adventure!
A link worth reading:
http://www.trains.com/ctr/default.aspx?c=a&id=40
Enjoy! Tom
G-day Tom and all present!
Leon- Could I get a coffee with a beef sandwich please. Thanks
Ok, I am now on page 26 for acknowledgements. I am almost finished. So here goes.
BK- I really liked all the pictures of the Southern Steam locomotives. I especially liked the first one. That one is located at the IRM isn't it? But a beautiful steam locomotive none the less. Perfect for around here.
Pete- I saw the links on the Dudley Canal. I am impressed. That is a really small, really long tunnel. I can't imagine the work that went into building that tunnel.
Cold.. Here in Duluth? No. It's never cold. Anyway, thanks for the heads up. Oh and I must say that I do agree with Eric also. There are still some very nice stations out there. I still see some in Fargo, ND and also here in Duluth. But many have disappeared. That's a shame.
Tom- Nice little article on the Frisco fallen flags. The pictures are also a nice addition. Love the E-units. The Atlantic Coast line was also a good addition to the fallen flags. They had some really colorful E-units. I really like them. Thanks. Oh and BTW, I'm sorry I missed the quiz. I would have tried my best but I was a bit "snowed" in. But it looked like fun.
I also got a look at your Passenger Nostalgia #18. MMMM... Bud cars. What more could you want..well.. I would also like a Super Dome, but that's another story. But some good stuff. Also enjoyed the selection of Via rail pictures. Another one of those nice looking Domeitory cars. Thanks for all the pictures.
Ah and something that caught my eye. I see you found some pictures of Canadian National, former Milwaukee road Skytop lounge and Super Dome. Very Nice find. I have seen pictures of the Super Dome in the CN colors, but never the Skytop Lounge. The first time I have seen it in those colors. Thanks for the photos.
Oh and I will be there for next Tuesdays theme. I definitely won't be missing out on that. I will probably post the first portion on Monday and then the second portion in the afternoon on Tuesday. Thanks.
Eric- Nice picture of the Boston, South Station platform. I'm sure a lot of trains come out of there. Nice picture of the Class S-2 Southern Pacific steam locomotive. Someone did a nice job restoring it. Also, interesting to hear that the tilting mechanism is used for passenger comfort. I thought it would reduce the stress on curves but I guess the super elevated curves do the trick. Thanks for the info.
Doug- Nice article on the Penn state coal. Some interesting things were happening then. It was interesting to read that trucks were doing a lot of the coal hauling instead of the railroads. But it makes sense. Trucks could take the coal anywhere, trains could only go where the rails were. Thanks.
Also really liked the Southern Pacific article. They were quite a basis for modern railroading at it's best. Thanks for that. Oh and BTW, Obviously the neighbor wasn't too happy with something!
Mike- Nice selection of pictures from you. I really enjoyed looking at the Notre Dame and Western railway. What a cool little operation they had going on there. I'm surprised the track is still in place. I also liked the Chicago and North Western E7As you had posted. Nice pictures. Some War posters and pictures from you. Nice pics, Thanks for sharing.
Lars- I see you have popped up with some WW2 posters. Liked the posters. Keep them coming.
Happy railroading
James
Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
I'll have my ham sandwich tonight. On rye. Thank you, Leon!
Weatherwise a nice day here in the desert today, 80°F. I listened to an engineer who really used the horn on his locomotive tonight. SF are running along Grand Avenue and there are grade crossings all over and one is supposed to use the horn a lot and this guy did!
Doug – Sorry about the not so correct info on the X2000 in your book. I have seen much worse though, so don’t worry. Keep the book! I have it myself. In some books they claim that the X2000 had problems with the tilting system in the beginning, that it sometimes would tilt the wrong way when the train was running. To my knowledge that has never happened. I have also read that it was not reliable the first years. Completely false, it was extremely reliable, had 99.8 % availability. Very interesting story about SP! Bad reputation (?) but did a lot of good things! Sunset Limited, not just a train but a book that I would like to have. Tom – I did some research about SP, Sunset Limited and Bisbee. I found that SP had a line south of today’s line between El Paso and Benson, AZ. That line followed run closer to the Mexican border and Sunsert Limited stopped in Douglas, AZ and then in Bisbee Junction, where a bus took passengers to and from Bisbee. On the link below there is a timetable for Sunset Limited from 1957.http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track9/sunset195705.htmlI just checked the link you provided and there was basically the same info! I should have checked that first and saved myself a lot of time! I have to drive down to Bisbee Junction and Douglas and see what is left (if anything).If you thought the same thing when BK referred to his “theatrical” DVD our thoughts must be true!!?!ACL, had some nice looking locomotives! Thanks for the info!SP, City of San Francisco! A train I don’t know much about. To bad one can’t send for those folders today! I read about the stranded City of San Francisco though, a few years ago! Lars – You know, someone has to be at the bottom! Novice! It could have been much worse! I guess I could call me Senior Novice since I passed the other parts of the Quizz. Nice posters! It must have been a tough job to be a “merchie” during WW II. CM3 – Coal stations, I remember I saw a good size coal station in New Haven, CT. I guess it belonged to New Haven. Thanks for the info on ACL’s locos and C&O coal stations!Pete – What happened to you doesn’t sound fun at all and it isn't. Same thing happened to me when I was on vacation in Italy 1986. More or less knocked me out for a few days. You better stick to Our Place and Cracker Barrel in the future!!It was the similarity between Tom’s and my pictures that made me post mine. I guess it is not so strange. If one move the position for my picture in Sweden to the same latitude in Canada it would be in the middle of Hudson Bay! Mike – Nice pictures, especially the one of SP 4449! Thanks!James – You are doing a good job catching up! It certainly takes a lot of time. I saw on the weather map that you still have very cold weather in your neighborhood! Stay inside!
Wednesday's Witticism
Having a jealous wife means if you come home with a hair on your coat, you better have the horse to match.
Mid-week in mid-continent USA where petrol prices are now at $2.40 (rounded) - up quite a bit since last "report." Temps are back into the 20s during the mornings with warm-ups into the low 50s during the afternoons. Not bad as spring makes its way to us.
Coming up: March 12th is the 23rd Month Anniversary for "Our" Place and March 17th is St. Patrick's Day! We'll have our "traditional" wearin' o' the green ‘round here along with Irish brew, corned beef ‘n cabbage, etc. Watch for it AND our annual listing of Irish beers!
Today is our OPTIONAL Toy ‘n Model Trains Day! for anyone so inclined . . .
Next Tuesday we will resume our "Theme for the Day!" with the Milwaukee Road featured. CMSTPP James will "kick it off" so be sure to hold off ‘til you see whatever it is he decides to come up with. He has the OPTION to begin it on Monday NIGHT if Tuesday morning is difficult for him.
Lars at 12:23 PM yesterday: Always enjoy those "merchie" posters. While we've never met in person, they somehow reflect what my image is of you. Perhaps at the Rendezvous!
Thanx for covering the QUIZ results, saved me the "work"!! <grin> Watch for Part V or a resemblance . . .
Please don't put too much concern into the afternoon "slot" - things will work out. I just like to see the activity spread out so as to keep us "up on the Forum Page! You've been a great help and should mornings be your time, that will be fine too. Thanx!
Appreciate the Email - thanx!
CM3 at 2:04 PM yesterday: Afternoons "work" for us, just as long as you make it in!
Nice rundown on those ACL E7s . . . hard to believe that the mid-1940s witnessed their arrival!
Quarters 'n round much appreciated! <KaChing - KaChing>
Pete at 3:34 PM yesterday: Fresh from his sickbed, the Wolfman has returned! Next time you decide to imbibe "out," make sure you wash it down with PROPER BREW that will "kill" all germs, viruses and the like!
Glad you're up ‘n about and sorry to learn of your situation. Even with one day away, you were MISSED!
Thanx for the Email and willingness to assume the mid to late afternoon "slot" for the Larsman!
Regarding your friend, Alan - you may want to let him know that should he join us, he'll be "eligible" for our Birthday Watch List!
Suspended railways, no matter where located, are interesting concepts. Somehow just doesn't "fit"the image of steel wheels on steel tracks, eh
Appreciate the links!
I'm ALWAYS in awe of those who can miniaturize to the degree shown in that Rhyl link. <double>
Here's the "deal" for REVEILLE in Halifax: Up ‘n at ‘em at ‘em ‘n ready for breakfast at the change of the watch - 8 bells, or you're gonna be missing out! <grin>
Truly amazing similarity between Eric's rail shot from Sweden and mine from Canada.
Perhaps one day, you'll be able to explain how you, or anyone, could confuse CINDY with Mountain Man Mike! <good grief!>
Mike at 7:33 PM yesterday: "Silent Mike" and URLs!
Will get to ‘em later on . . . thanx!
James at 9:10 PM yesterday: "Catch up" continues and is going very well!
Good news regarding the Tuesday "theme" - just try to do your initial Post on Monday night so that we don't get everyone "started" too soon. Looking forward to it . . . Thanx!
There will be more QUIZ and CONTEST opportunities . . . no problem-O! <grin>
Very nice inclusive Post!
Eric at 12:16 AM today: "Bisbee mystery" solved! Good work - Inspector Clueless 'n Mr. Doyle can use your services!
I love it - BK is GUILTY by virtue of SIMILAR THOUGHT! Now there's something for the ACLU to check out! <grin>
When it came to figuring out how to come up with the "grades" for the QUIZ, it seemed that the only way to do it was to require all previous parts to be "passed" in order to attain the "title" for the highest level achieved. Senior NOVICE, eh Hmmmmmmm.
Interesting about moving that great right-of-way to Canada. Having something like that in the middle of Hudson Bay kinda reminds me of the movie, Polar Express. They had no problems with running track over ice and the like!
Sorry to cut this a bit short, but I've got places to go ‘n people to see this AM . . .
Enjoy the day!
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til clo
Good morning to all this fine morning. Or cold morning.
Ruth- Good to see you. I haven't seen you for sometime. Anyway, could I get and Oj this morning please. Thanks.
Well, I dropped by to drop off an interesting article.
Of course it'se the Milwaukee road, but it's about the bankruptcy.
The alders now grow tall where the Milwaukee Road once ran, electrified, to Puget Sound. Has it really been 20 years since engineer Don Grigsby pulled the last train out of Tacoma in the darkness of March 15 1980? The alders don't lie, but my God! Twenty years? The cold, hard truth in a box of black and white negatives makes the final days of the Milwaukee Road seem even more distant than that, roll after roll of black and white film carefully sorted and preserved. On small rectangles of celluloid come back memories of wonderful days spent hanging out in depots and roundhouses, cutting classes at school to spend the afternoon walking along the Milwaukee mainline high in the Cascade, and of weekends spent crazily chasing trains over the Saddle Mountains in a hand-me-down 1975 silver Monte Carlo two-door, the 8-track tape deck blasting out Journey, VanHalen, and Kansas. In January 1978, the nation's number one pop song was the hauntingly beautiful "Dust in the Wind," which appeared at the same moment the Milwaukee Road declared bankruptcy. Its sparse acoustics and plaintive lyrics perfectly captured the futility of having something you care about slip through your fingers, out of reach for good. It seemed apropos to the Milwaukee Road at the time; the years haven't dimmed its ability to tug at the heart.
The Milwaukee Road's Puget Sound extension was a railroad that probably should never have been built. It was one railroad too far, one railroad too many. But the Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul's management faced few other options after the Northern Pacific and Great Northern (the "Hill Lines") jointly purchased the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy in 1901, effectively neutralizing the Milwaukee's gateway at the Twin Cities, on which it relied on for much of its traffic. It was either acquiesce to Hill and become another "second-tier" granger railroad, or take the bold step and build to the coast. It chose the latter, and the decision helped drive the railroad into bankruptcy three times, 1925, 1935, and, finally, 1977.
Never able to compete with the Hill lines for traffic or interchange, the 1970 Burlington Northern merger was supposed to guarantee the viability of the Milwaukee Road---never before had a railroad merger's approval hinged on ensuring the competition's survival. Twelve previously closed interchange gateways were opened, the additional traffic supposed to keep the railroad viable. The traffic never materialized in sufficient volume to do so, because, some argue, BN undermined the very agreements that allowed its merger to take place. The Milwaukee begged inclusion in the BN to the ICC in 1975, a request denied two years later; nine months after that, the Milwaukee Road declared its final bankruptcy. Having lost $82 million in 1978 and $64 million in the first six months of 1979, the Milwaukee Road's trustee applied to the Interstate Commerce Commission to abandon 2497.7 miles of railroad west of Miles City, Montana on August 9, 1979. An employee plan to purchase the Puget Sound extension was deemed financially unrealistic by the ICC and rejected, clearing the way for abandonment approval on January 30, 1980. A little less than a month later, bankruptcy court judge Thomas McMillan authorized embargo of the transcontinental lines. Though we hoped somehow, some way the railroad could be saved, deep in our hearts we knew it wouldn't be.
Largely ignored after its electrification era, the Puget Sound Extension's mythic status grows each passing year. There's now a generation of northwesterners whose memories don't include big orange GE's treading down Hauser Way in Renton, or viewing strings of container flats and autoracks wrap around Windy Point high above I-90 near Bandera. And their memories don't include perhaps the best memories of all: Milwaukee Road's dedicated employees, the glue that held this railroad together when it was disintegrating under mismanagement and disinterest--the proudest group of railroaders I've ever met, certainly the most optimistic. But pride didn't pay the bills, and I can't help but wonder where they all are today.
I have a map to go along with it. Pudget Sound is the Coast division of the Milwuakee Road. From Seatle to Tekon, Washington. 220 miles of electrified line.
This is the MAp.
http://www.montanarailroadhistory.info/1918-MT-Map-Milw.jpg
Article and picture from: http://www.wwvrailway.com/milwauke.htm
Ruth, my deAH, the glow from you is enough to force me to keep my sun glasses on!
I see you've had a visitor this morning, as young James swung by with his "reading exercise" for us! <grin> Actually, a rather educational submission and one that sheds a bit of light into the history of another "mighty fine road," THE MILWAUKEE ROAD!
Tom has done it again by providing us with some fine material through his fallen flag series and RR ads. Surely like the reworking of 'em and they are much more meaningful to me in knowing that you've put personal effort into each one. That's what this place has far 'n above any of the others. Our guys aren't afraid to do a bit of work in order to provide quality material for us all.
I'm going to dispense with the "blow by blow" for each 'n every participant since my last visit, as so many of you are doing commendable jobs at covering that. Just let me add my thanks to those of you helping to keep this idea afloat. "Our" Place WILL survive and WILL continue into a 3rd year! WE will make it so, huh? Youbetchaboots!
Appreciate the e-mail from Wolfman and glad to see that you're back on your feet. Sorry 'bout that food issue, not good. I think the advice from Cap'n Tom hit the nail on the head - drink MORE beer. It's a sure-fire-disease killer! <grin>
Perhaps this "new slot time" will help things a bit here at the watering hole by the main lines, as I'm going to try like the Dickens to keep to a late to mid-morning schedule. With Pete picking up mid to late afternoon, we should have things "covered" at least for 6 hour intervals. Time will tell.
Good to see that James is gonna do the Milwaukee Road on Tuesday. Remember, generally Cap'n Tom uses the wikipedia stuff, so cut him some slack! <grin> Only kidding, go with what is best for you and we'll follow along as Tom suggested.
Eric, I find it MOST HARD TO ACCEPT your Quiz results! Surely you jest! Anyway, you're an honest man, that's for sure!
Like that pix at the end of your post. What is the orange looking car on the right side of it?? Looks to be some sort of a maintenance of way car from perhaps a converted passenger car. Most interesting.
One of these days I'm gonna put together a photo collage of my Lionel & American Flyer trains. They are still boxed up and very well rewrapped since our 'flood.' I'll have do some serious browsing to find the appropriate pix, sortalike what Tom did with his Lionel. To be continued . . .
I recall the St. Pat's Day "stuff" from last year and look forward to this edition as well. As some may recall. That's a big day for us here in New York City and even the "squareheads" get "with it." We're all Irish on that day, or at least that's what I've been told. My lodge marches in the parade and it's always been a fun time. Long day, especially when the weather is rotten, which around here, HAPPENS!
This year it falls on a Saturday, so my guess is we'll have a huge turnout amongst the younger set. The fall-down-drunks should stay home.
March 12th "anniversary day" for the bar is this coming Monday. So, let's not forget to hoist our tankards high in a toast to the continued success of "Our" Place. Try to make that a "thing" when you come through the doors. Thanks.
Here's one we haven't seen in awhile:
Aerotrain by GM EMD (Fair Use)
Good Morning Captain Tom & fellow sophisticates!
Greetings from Alberta where there are some early signs of spring, but not enough to get anyone excited.
I have been pitifully slow in catching up to the postings and wonder if I ever shall. As I have stated so many times in the year-plus since I found this wonderful respite from reality, I am not a rail aficionado of any stripe. Therefore, it is most difficult for me to delve through the materials presented. It sets up a bad habit of scrolling through, rather than trying to digest the efforts of our fellow barmates. 'Tis indeed a quandry for me, for I want to give my full time and attention to the efforts, but find my mind wandering from those subjects for which I hold very little interest. Sorry, but that is the truth.
Sometimes the links from Mike and others are far easier for me, but then I miss out on the details. That is the quandry!
Ruth, a mug of coffee with just a "splash" to make it interesting, a round for the house and the change is for you. My, my, Lars was right on, you are radiant this fine day!
Not much to report today as life goes on up here at the mountain retreat. I doubt that anything of worth from our personal perspectives would fold in neatly with the topics and banter at the bar.
Pleased to read the works from Sirs CM3, Pete, Eric, James, Doug & Lars!
Hope you are well on the road to recovery Sir Wolfman!
One thing though, we will be taking a couple of trips to Calgary and Edmonton in the near future, providing I can arrange for a suitable lease on an aircraft I've had my eye on. We terminated our prior arrangement in deference to the extended holiday we recently returned from. Perhaps I would have better luck leasing a train! Ah, now there is a novel thought. What a fine arrangement that would be for a rolling rendezvous!
Oh yes, Tom, something to seriously consider. I have decided to look up those two retired RCMP friends that I met some years back while traveling from Winnipeg to Vancouver aboard CPR's version of "The Canadian." We have kept contact over the years, but now that I too am retired, it is time for more than phone calls. One of the guys mentioned Churchill and a light shone brightly in my aging cranium. Perhaps we could rekindle that thought of yours for a trip up there and back from Winnipeg. I know you have mentioned this and I surely would enjoy it. So, as they say, "Stay tuned!"
Here is a little something from past efforts over on the "original thread" (largely from Lydia!) to help perpetuate the Toy & Model Trains Day:
Trix SNCF BB 426000 ELECT LOCO
Trix CFL CL 3600 ELECT LOCO
Brawa Diesel Locomotive BR 216 (1970s-80s)
Brawa Diesel Locomotive BR 232
BK in Alberta, Canada's beautiful high mountain country!
Good Afternoon Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; ropund for the house and $ for the jukebox.
Started this a.m. WAY too early and am just here quickly b4 heading back out. I will post more tomorrow.
Railroad Stations - Terminals & Depots
Number Seven - Stockholm Central Station
Location
Place
Stockholm
Operations
Manager
JernhusenBanverket
Platforms in use
19
Daily entry/exit
220 000 *
History
18711951
OpenedUnderground Station opened
Central station of Stockholm.
Stockholm Central Station (Stockholm C) is the largest railway station in Sweden. The station is situated in the district of Norrmalm at Vasagatan. The station was opened July 18, 1871. Today the station isn't only the largest station in Sweden its also the largest travel center in the Nordic region with over 220000 visitors daily.[1]
The Building
The Station was built between 1867 and 1871. Adolf W. Edelsvärd was the architect. Until 1925 the tracks led in to the station but during a renovation 1925-1927 the tracks were moved to the west and the former track hall was converted in to a 119 m long, 28 m wide and 13 m high waiting hall. During the renovation the station was extended to the south through the construction of the southern pavilion. Today this part of the station houses a conference facility. Next to the conference facility is the Royal waiting hall were the Royal Family waits when travelling by train.
In 1951 the facade towards Vasagatan was changed and given a more simplified look. In 1958 a underground passage to T-Centralen was opened.
In front of the central station stands a statue of Nils Ericson.
Services
The Waiting Hall at Stockholm Central Station.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * &nb
I'll try Kimberley Mild please RUTH.
MIKE Thanks for the links. With some very good artwork on the wartime posters and the great color pics of the SP locomotives.
JAMES Great posts .I see you are warming up for Tuesdays Milwaukee Theme day with that very well written Dust in the Wind piece. It is strange how a certain song can bring you back to a certain time and a place. I don't know if you have heard of a British band called The Kinks but they had a No1 hit called Waterloo Sunset, although not at all about railways it was out about the same time as Southern Region steam was finishing and the SR's Waterloo Station was the last terminal in London to see steam engines.
Those are good photos in the link to Dust in the Wind, that track looks in very bad condition, and I guess it is the old electrification masts still on the Mine Creek Bridge that the GP 40s are crossing.
It is indeed very interesting traveling through that old Dudley Canal Tunnel, some of the tunnel is lined with brick while some it is just the rock. It must have quite an achievement when it was built in the mid to late 1700s.
ERIC I am just grateful I got this at home and not on vacation, it is real downer after looking forward to a vacation to have it spoiled by bad food.
Thanks for the Sunset Limited schedule and the photo from the cab; like Lars says they look like track machines on the right.
LARS I will certainly look forward to the pics of your Lionel Trains.
As you say the 23 rd month anniversary is soon with us and then the big one the 2nd birthday bash, hopefully I should have my piece on the Naming of British Locos ready by then. I still haven't really found out why the British were so into naming their locos.
The local Irish bar has an electronic counter running down the time to St Patrick's Day, can you guess the drink company whose name is on it.
BK.Thanks for the kind wishes. If you ever do lease a train perhaps it could come down to our part of the world, what a thought that is a Our Place rendezvous all on a train, of course it would have to have a Dome Car in the consist.
Those are some very stylish European model locomotives LYDIA found for us. The CL 3600 electric loco has a bit of look of a Pennsy GG1 about it.
Thanks for the round CM3 and I will look forward to your post tomorrow.
TOM Another great SP advert. What an ordeal those poor passengers had and the heroic efforts to reach the City of San Frisco SP's train 101 stuck by that very severe snowstorm in the Donner Pass, the conditions as the availability to heat the train and the food running short are hard to imagine. Many thanks for sharing that link
There was a British Transport Film about trying to open a line in the Northern Fells of England in 1955 after a snowstorm. It is 10 minutes long and perhaps would make a good short at the Emporium.
http://www.britishtransportfilms.co.uk/
Talking of films I see there is a Sherlock Holmes film tonight on Turners Classic Movies at 9 PM. It says the plot is that Holmes is protecting a diamond on a London to Edinburgh train, I wonder if there are some railway shots in the film.
Thanks for the kind words.
It is funny that if the illness is caused by food you get a lot of sympathy, but if it is caused by beer you are on your own.
Alan is still away at the minute but I will find out when his birthday is.
I will be sure to get up early in Halifax; there seems a lot to see there.
For model day A ACL RDC at Union Station Kansas City this New Year.
Just caught your post on Stockholm Central Station. I see the station was opened in 1871 but the underground was not there until 1951. It looks a well-proportioned building and it still as a Royal Waiting Room..
By the way Tom I believe you mean London Victoria in the list of previous stations.I would like to see a piece of the Great Westerns Windsor station.
Well I see you have just come on duty LEON so let me get a round in and another Mild for me please.
Pete.
Me again LEON, OK then another pint..
To see the Train being cleared in the snow in my link. When the URL comes up click on 'Snowdrift At Bleath Gill.
Leon- Good to see-ya! Could I get a coffee and a small turkey sandwich. Thanks.
Okay, I am on the last page of my catch-up. Page 25, So here goes.
CM3- I liked the article about the Anthracite railroads. Some pretty neat railroads ran through with the coal operations. One of my favorites is the D&H. Later on, they got some of the coolest Alco locomotives, like the RS-11. There was quite a boom of railroads to compete for the coal. It's hard to believe how quickly they built for having mostly man power to build the track. Thanks for the article.
Pete- I saw the picture of the suspended railway from Wappertal, Germany. That's a bit scary for me. I have never been in a suspended railroad. It might be fun. Well, I have been on the L in Chicago and that's up a ways, but it's not suspended. But a cool picture none-the-less. Also got a look at the Oxford Canal. Pretty cool looking water way. Especially that tunnel in one of the pictures. Pretty nice. Thanks
Also, I liked the red center cab locomotives. Those are some of my favorite switching locomotives. They are some really awkward locomotives but they do there job and that's what I like about them.
Thanks for the kind words about my article. It was interesting to find the article associated with a song. It's too bad the Milwaukee couldn't have lasted a few more years, but alas, they did not. But that's sometimes the life of a railroad. BTW: good picture of the model railroad. Nice looking layout.
Eric- Nice cab view of the X2000 locomotive. That's a pretty clean looking cab. Most of the Coal train locomotive cabs I have seen in Duluth, are absolutely filthy. When the locomotive is in the DPU (distributed power unit) position, When the locomotive is on the back of the train pushing (controlled by remote control) Some of the coal dust that comes off the coal cars, somehow reaches the inside of that cab. And you go into it and the cab is covered in a fine layer of coal dust. Yuck, what a mess.
Also a good set of photos of the X2000 being hauled around by the F40. So when you guys had to push the X2000 back, how long did it take you to do so? Obviously it must have been quite heavy or did it roll pretty easily?
I have a question for you. I saw in one of your pictures that there were 4 sections of rail in one. Like a set of rails in the middle of the regular rail. What is the significance of that? Was it for another train to travel on it?
Well, It's going to drop to a cold temp tonight and then it's suppose to be about 40 degrees tomorrow, so we will have to see what happens. But I will bundle up tonight.
Mike- Good show of pictures from you sir. I really liked the pictures of the Pennsy electrics. Those E-44 electrics were quite the sight to behold. A true WOW if a person got to look at those. Thanks.
Also, interesting article about the locks. The Name Hornblower, sparked my mind. I have a trilogy of movies called, Horatio Hornblower. Excellent movies about the a young man, just beginning in the navy and set back to the Napoleonic Wars. A very good set of movies. Could this be one of the books to those movies?
Lars- Good to see some more good looking pictures from you. Starting off with one of the NYC PA3s. An excellent looking Alco locomotive and one I would like to hear and see in action. I also enjoyed looking at the D&H PAs and the RF16. The D&H was famous for there Baldwins and Alcos. I know one such Baldwin that many would love to see. The D&Hs Baldwin Shark units. I have actually seen these locomotives. They are located on the Escanaba and Lake Superior railroad. They are in perfect condition and stored away. The man who owns them won't let anyone see them except friends and family. He's pretty protective of them. But they are a cool looking locomotive.
I'm glad you liked the Milwaukee road article. I thought it was a pretty good submission, but a little sad at the same time. BTW: Nice Aero train picture.
Tom- Well I am sure happy to hear that there will be more quizzes. I will certainly beat all of you then. Oh and I have it all planned out for next Tuesday. I will probably post the first portion of the theme late Monday night and then be back later Tuesday to drop off the second portion of the theme. I'm ready!
Nice little history on the Stockholm station. That's quite a nice looking building. Thanks for sharing.
Budkarr- Some really nice looking model trains you posted. I really liked the electric locomotive. That's a funky looking thing, but cool at the same time. Kind of like the center cab units. Thanks for the pics!
Leon, glad to see you! Just a cup of coffee and a dansih, if you have any from this morning.
We had a warm and nice day in the desert today! Wish we also had rail passenger service, but we don't.
Nearest Amtrak station is Maricopa Station (above) south of Phoenix. Note the long platform! The station is prepared for double track. UP is adding a second track through Arizona due to heavy traffic. They also plan to build a huge yard halfway between Phoenix and Tucson,
Tom – Until the judge has decided otherwise I feel like a Senior Novice. I think the grades are okay. Or do I? Yeah, I do. I think. Or whatever. There are places and occasions where they have been running track over ice. The Russians did it during WW II over Lake Ladoga to bring supplies to Leningrad. Stockholm Central Station! I guess I know that place pretty well, both the inside and outside! The underground station is actually a subway station that is directly connected to the Central station. The subway station has tracks at three different levels. In a couple of years they plan to build a railroad station for commuter trains only, under the subway station! Nils Ericson was a brother of John Ericson (the Monitor) who moved to the US in the 1800’s.Interesting to read about the X2000 (Wikipedia). Not everything is correct though. It says for instance that: The trains were initially used sparingly to avoid breakdowns.That is not true. They were used as much as practical possible. The first 6 months there was only one train set in service. The trains are geared for 130 mph but due to grade crossings the max allowed speed is 125 mph. In the US Amtrak operated the X2000 at 135 mph.Top speed is one thing, but what is interesting as the average speed or traveling time. Using the average speed as criteria the X2000 is the 6th fastest train in the world. Finally it is stated that Amtrak used the X2000 for a few runs betseen Washington, D.C. and New York City. Amtrak used for in revenue service for five months including one month when it was running Washington, D.C. - New York City - New Haven. More than a few runs. James – A very interesting article! Kind of sad to read. I love that picture with the empty tracks and a Clear signal. Thanks!Also a interesting site about Milwaukee Road. The second picture from bottom shows that they were short on money in 1978. The track is in badly need of maintenance but will not get any. X2000 was surprisingly easy to push so it did not take long. The train came to a complete stop about 200 yards from the siding so all we did was to call the CTC and they let us come back onto the siding. Then they dispatched two locomotives to pick us up.The picture with four rails shows a Gauntlet track, in this case at New Carrollton north of Washington, D.C. Regular trains are using rail # 1 and 3 (from the left side) and freight trains with wide loads use rail #2 and 4. That particular Gauntlet track is pretty short, a little bit longer than the platform. We had 87°F in Phoenix today. Lars – I am afraid that I ended up as a Senior Novice in the Quiz. Which is almost like my title, Senior Quality Engineer. Life is rough!The orange looking car in my pix is a former small DMU that was converted to a maintenance way car, so you are right! GM Aerotrain! A very good looking train!! That would be something for Amtrak to operate today! BK – Nice pictures of locos from France, Luxembourg and Germany! “would not fold in neatly with the topics and banter at the bar”? Theatrical DVD? Is that ..., no I didn’t think so. CM3 – All mornings started before 10 o’clock are way too early!Pete – I have to come back this weekend and watch that 10 min. film! Too late tonight. Yes, you are correct, those are track machines on the right. Stockholm Central Station was my work place when I worked at the headquarters of the Swedish State Railways. Had my office on second floor.
Another early morning round of places to go ‘n people to see.
Hope y'all are eagerly awaiting the wind down of the week as Thursday emerges. Draw a cuppa Joe, some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and of course a <light> or <traditional> breakfast from our Menu Board!
Appreciate the efforts put forth by the guys who stopped by yesterday!
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (in brief):
James at 8:18 AM yesterday: A rare early AM visit from our Minnesota Connection - good to see ya and appreciate you being the one to "kick off" the morning . . .
Really an intriguing Pix to start off your Milwaukee Road article . . . never knew anything ‘bout it. That's another PLUS for this great interactive Thread of ours, eh
Lars at 11:28 AM yesterday: Another fine "chat" from the Larsman along with a unique Pix of the Aereotrain.
BK at 12:46 PM yesterday: I'm ALWAYS ready for a VIA Rail trip and the one up to Churchill on Hudson Bay is definitely in my plans to do. Just gotta get a ROUNDTUIT!
Keep me posted on the developments . . .
Appreciate the chat and of course the fine Pix of the Euro model trains! Good to see anytime . . .
CM3 at 2:28 PM yesterday: The "man" always makes the time to drop off quarters ‘n buy a round!
Pete at 5:21 PM ‘n 5:30 PM yesterday: Good stuff in the Post ‘n link . . . that RDC looks more like a "Doodlebug" to me (terminology difference between North America ‘n Europe - when I think "RDC" I think Budds stainless steel beauties still running to this day!).
St. Pat's Day at the bar will require YOUR services as Assistant Bar Chandler!
Thanx for pickin' up on my error - has been corrected!
James at 9:47 PM yesterday: Got us at both ends, eh Good to see ya again! -
We need to bottle your enthusiasm for the upcoming Tuesday "Theme for the Day" - it's a good thing!
And, THANX for supporting "my other Thread"!!
Eric at 12:21 AM today: Glad the Stockholm Central Station piece "worked" for you and bought back some good memories! Appreciate the supplemental info on the subway station, etc. Also, anything you may have to enlighten the Wikipedia people should be mentioned to them. They are MOST RECEPTIVE and all you need to do is get on their site (http://www.wikipedia.com/) and take it from there . . . The nice thing about the way those guys run that site is they are ALWAYS open to updated and corrected info. They don't come across as "the final authority" the way so many other sites do.
Sorry, but I have to get going . . . .
Reminder: Ruth has the bar from 9 AM until Leon the Night Man comes in at 5 PM ‘til closing. Tonight is Fish ‘n Chips Nite! with servings beginning at 5 PM.
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house, and $ for the jukebox.
A few comments and some more information.
I was able to look at the Delano Chicago yard shot that Mike sent. Lots to see in there. For example, look at the freight cars - all dull and drab. The Erie box is the most "modern" of any cars in the yard. Next look at the switch stands; they'd cut an unwary brakeman in half; especially at night. Next is the jointly operated NKP/C&O freight house. Last is the fine view of the Tribune Tower and the Wrigley Bldg in the background; excellent and most appreciated.
Also many thanks for the posters and the SP items; I especially liked the red-nosed F units with the ice breakers.
James provided some general comments (almost said observations, but that's what he was discussing,) and an interesting piece on his MILW Road. I spent lots of time on the D&H; veterans of the page have read about how I got skunked out of a beautiful shot of the PAs when they were blocked by a trio of C628s with a NB freight. Many roads in that area had RS11s. The New Haven had some, for example, which they used in passenger service. I especially remember seeing and photographing RS11s on both the Maine Central and the Central Vermont.
Eric - The coal dock you saw in New Haven still stands; those beasties were built for the ages. It did, indeed, belong to the New Haven and is at what's called Cedar Hill. This yard was the largest facility of its type on the New Haven and did lots of classification work. Freights were basically dispatched in three different directions; north (east by timetable), south (west by timetable), and west to Maybrook, NY and points beyond. Maybrook and surrounding area was a most interesting place in that it had lots of railroads in a very rural setting. Also thanks for the shot of Maricopa - I have read about what Uncle Pete is planning - it will in many ways reshape the whole railroad picture in Arizona.
Lars stopped by with comments and a photo of the Aerotrain - something that was truly a misbegotten effort, IMHO.
Pete seems to be in recovery. Beer and excess consumption thereof is a matter of free will - that probably accounts for the lack of sympathy.
BK stopped by as well. Good to hear from you, sir.
Continuing our never-ending efforts to answer questions, here's some material about named Boston and Maine steam locomotives.
Starting in late 1937, R-1a and R-1b Mountains and P-4a and P-4b Pacifics received names suggested by schoolchildren in a contest. They were applied in white (silver in the Speed Lettering scheme) to a plate mounted below the running board, with the names of the child and school below in smaller letters. New naming contests took place when classes R-1c and R-1d arrived. Some engines lost their nameplates before they were retired, but they were maintained through 1950, at least.
Before you ask, here's some background on some of the more obscure names.
Allagash is a wilderness area in Maine.
Greylock is the tallest mountain in Massachusetts
Kwasind is an Algonquin word for "strong and powerful."
Camel's Hump is another mountain; this one is in Vermont
Hannah Dustin aka Duston was captured by Native Americans during King William's War (1689-1697) - Cotton Mather wrote a narrative of her captivity. The B&M had another locomotive named Hannah Duston; this was a GP38-2, part of an order delivered to the B&M in 1973.
Cardigan - Another mountain - in New Hampshire
The rest are pretty straightforward. I always liked the name "Black Arrow" myself.
You can find out more in the following books:
Minuteman Steam
The Encyclopedia of New England
The most excellent B&M book, High Green and the Bark Peelers, has an account of a cab ride on Kwasind. B&M 1713 is supposedly undergoing restoration at Steamtown.
Ruth, take a break - I'll watch things for awhile. I'm in between appointments . . . Received an Email from Manager Lars, I doubt we'll be seeing him today. So, let's see how we can handle this without the Larsman!
CM3 at 10:35 AM today: Good to see the return of our WVA Connection to full 'n fine form! Nice Post, Shane!
Always enjoy the B&M material as it brings back "those" memories of the RDCs from Melrose to North Station back in 1968-69. Ahhhhhhh.
Of course your focus was the "named" steam locos, which I never experienced, but enjoy knowing about!
Been viewing some Aerotrain Pix over on "my other Thread" which of course brings back memories as well. Can't say I was a huge fan of that innovation, however, it did bring a degree of "modernization" and "forward thinking" to the rails. The "yellow beast" that VIA Rail operated was rather hideous in livery. And yes, I too think of the venture as an overall "bust."
Thanx for the quarters 'n round!
Rock Island Aerotrain at the St. Louis Museum of Transport (Kirkwood, MO)
Boris, ring the bell - rounds on me!
G'day All!
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #23
Initially Posted on Page 159 of the original Thread
Here's something to enjoy regarding the Santa Fe (AT&SF) from a 1950 advertisement in my personal collection.
You arrive and depart Down-Town on the Santa Fe
- not out in the country
When you're gong somewhere, you want to be there when you arrive.
Go Santa Fe. You leave on your trip when you plan to leave.
You arrive relaxed, refreshed, at a convenient station right downtown, close to your hotel or office.
Travel Santa Fe and you choose accommodations to suit yourself. You get privacy as you like it. You have room to roam around when you want it. You enjoy wonderful Fred Harvey meals.
You be the judge. Go Santa Fe all the way!
Ride great trains through a great country!
Santa Fe
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
A pint of Holden's Bitter would go down a treat on this quite warm Mid-Mo afternoon please RUTH, and of course the Fish 'n' Chips later.
JAMES The suspended railway at Wuppental has a remarkable safty record with only one bad accident in the time the railway as been running.
I was lucky having the Oxford Canal so near the house, it is a very pleasant walk if the weather is decent, away from traffic and plenty of wildlife to be seen.They have renovated the tow-path so it is easy walking and a great way for me to get into town on a Saturday night, although longer than going on the main road, the route via the canal also meant that you crossed the railway on a footbridge on the way to town. In the old days if you walked through the tunnel it was best to keep away from the edge as some of the handrails were missing, today they are in good repair and painted white. In the old days, I have been told, to be consider a "Lad of Newbold" you had to swim the quarter mile of the tunnel.
Yes that was a great layout in Kansas City. I read an advert in the K.C. Star there is going to be a big model railroad show in KC this weekend.
I had not thought about the back locomotive pushing to coal train, I guess that sometimes the performance of the loco is affected with the coal dust.
So you are another Hornblower fan.
ERIC Another interesting pic , it is good to see thought going in for the second line.
What a great place to work Stockholm Central Staion It is good to hear that even more trains will be serving the station when the new commuter line is built.
X2000 the 6th fastest train in the world, it sounds it could be another quiz to name the top 10 fastest( no looking them up), what do you thinkNot special speed runs but their everyday speed.
Off the top of my head I would say
1 Japenese Bullet Train
2 French TGV
3German ICE
4 Eurostar
5 U.S Acela.
6 Swedish X2000
7 GB Pendelino
8 Italian HST
9 Spanish Talgo
10 Australian XST
These are only my guesses
CM3. Thanks for the details on Jack Delano's Chicago photo, and for the list and the meanings on the B&M steam locomotives.IMHO they were an impressive set of names.
Mentioning them losing their names towards the end of their careers reminded me,towards the last days of BR steam, how locos that once carried proud names had lost them.Some of the worst was the ex Great Western locos with just the three brackets remaining that once held a polished brass nameplate.I guess that hammered home to us that steam really was finishing.
TOM I meant to say Doodle-Bug sorry. It was a good layout at KC this year and I think that Doodle bug was my favorite model, it seemed to fit in so well with the scenary they had.
Sherlock Holmes is a clever guy, in the film last night he managed to get a German Steam loco( amongst others) on his trip from London to Edinburgh .
Oh Dear. I feel I am going to get a 'Tweeting'. The bride tells me we are going to be in Kansas City on St Patricks Day. I will make sure the bars are well stocked before I go though.
Thanks for the Santa Fe Nostalgia. I wonder who they are referring to with the "Arrive Down -Town and not in the country" remark. Reading the old ads there is usually something you notice a second time that perhaps was missed before.
Well RUTH I am about ready for another, let me get a round in and then the .
Good evening all from the sandbox... Taking some unauthorized time here, too much good stuff..
Tom..In complete agreement with your take on those among the legion of the lost, couldn't have put it better myself, and I speak from experience!!! Where are my manners? Best Malt scotch we may have, dry you know in my area...
Thanks to all who expressed their best wishes to me, outside contact is so important with my 12 hour/6 on one off schedule, diversion keeps me sane
BK,Pete,CM3,Lars...failed our little quiz..for want of study time!!!
CMSTP, great writen up, another tragic tale all too common these past decades..
OK, I did see SP mentiond here did I not? Sunset limited? Thought so.
For your enjoyment:
In 1968, SP and Rock Island in a event little recorded and less known about agreed to pool E units on the Sunset Limited, this brought Rock power to the West Coast and SP to Chicago this agreement solved the daunting issue of meeting schedules with aging power long overdue for replacement and improved to running time ..Typically, the units were intermixed as needed...The Rock typically supplied the E8 or E9 units, some recently purchased second or third hand. On at least one occasion an aging E6 made it west as a trailing unit in an otherwise all SP lashup.
The agreement did not last long, seems the Rock was assigning units known to be in need of heavy repairs, forcing SP to shop the power at Taylor Shops before the return trip east, the Rock was not too quick to reimburse SP for said repairs. Likewise, several SP units went to the ground on Rock rails, or misuse by assignment to freight duties that further taxed the aging power.The best course decided upon was to part ways, equiptment would continue to interchange, but not the power, in several years the quest would be moot with the inception of Amtrak.
Well, thats all the time I have for toady..Be back as soon as able....
Dave
Good Evenin' Gents!
FLASH! West Coast Dave at 7:08 PM today! Another visit from Iraq from our Left Coast Connection, Super Sleuth Dave!
Glad to know the Ether is storing and making available the pertinent "stuff" for you from the boyz at the bar!
Always pleased to have you aboard and especially gratified to know that you're still thinking of us AND contibuting. Dinner on me, Mate!
Leon, go ahead 'n take your dinner break! Fish 'n Chips look mighty tempting . . .
Been two successive days where I can say, "One of THOSE daze!" <ugh> But, such is life in the fast lane, eh
Pete at 4:22 PM today: WHAT??? Away on St. Pat's Day! Welllllll, you betta get a laptop and be sure to be on line for at least a part of it! <geeesh> Guess this becomes a "test" to see if we'll have either our Bar Chandler OR Assistant ready for work. Seems that Rob has disappeared once again . . . .
I think the Santa Fe ad is rather "generic" and more intended to "say" something like "Take the train to down town anywhere, as opposed to . . . " Appears that way to me. Good point!
Swim the canal! Now THAT's just about the way it SHOULD be - gotta earn those "stripes"!
Ten fastest trains in the world? Well, I suppose that info is available in the Ether. Posing it as contest or quiz material surely would require someone to amass the correct answers. Off the top of my head, your list looks fine to me.
Hope you've received THAT Email I sent you (twice) . . . unanswered question at the end.
MANY THANX for picking up the mid ot late afternoon "slot" - really helps!
Boris, ring the bell - drinks on Da Boss!
Leon- That Fish n' chips sounds really good. Could I get that with a coffee please.
Alright, I am back on track and ready for more posting.
Eric- 87 degrees!!!! Who said. Well, we got a high of 20 today. It's so hot I can feel it.....
Anyway, Nice picture of the station platforms. It sounds like the railroad has everything planned out for passenger service, which is good. Oh and thanks for the information on the picture. I have never seen that type of set up near a platform. I have only seen it on bridges. I suppose to keep what ever fell off the track from tipping over into the river. Same thing here, just people can't really live squished.
Tom- Nice picture of the Rock Island Aero train. They were a very unique looking passenger train. I don't think I could find another to match it except the turbo train. Also, another good Passenger Nostalgia, this time on the Santa Fe. Thanks.
CM3- Some interesting names for steam locomotives. It's amazing what a few kids can think up. Pretty cool.
Pete- Sounds like a fun little walk by the canal. I wouldn't want to fall into it though. I'm glad they got the railings fixed. Oh and those locomotives and there coal. They literally need a washing every week. The coal dust can do a number on those locomotives. Streaks, clogged fans and on and on.
Hornblower. Yes they are excellent movies and I have heard the books are just as good if not better. I might have to sit down one of these days and read them.
West Coast Dave- Good to hear from you again. Thanks for the little article. I did enjoy it!
I will be back in the morning to drop a little something off!
Just called in at the bar and I am glad I did as Dave as been back in, so the best scotch for Dave and I'll have a Holden's Special on Tom plesase LEON.
DAVE It seems The SP as been calling to you, we have been missing those,interesting facts and insight you provide. I seem to recall reading, at the bar, that the SP had a simular problem when they invested in new Box Cars with other lines "borrowing" them.
The other day there was a SP diesel through here still in Southern Pacific livery and with the SP three digit number.
Keep Safe and I hope you are able to call at the bar again soon.
TOM I am hoping I can get to a computer on St Pats Day. I was thinking of getting BORIS to help with the chandeling but I have been told I will be responsable for all breakages, so I had better rethink that one.
I guess with the Santa Fe ad, I was thinking in todays terms where they are always trying to run down a rivals product.
I dont think swimming in the canal could be recommended today, not intentionaly anyway..
That looks a very interesting Railcar on the cover of that book.
Have sent an e-mail sorry for the delay, me again.
I see JAMES as called in. I'll post this and have a read of the post
Well LEON the Fish 'n' Chips were deliciousto H&H,and let me get a round in.
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