Fleet of Modernism in cars being pulled by the fleet of Anachronism in motive power.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDFleet of Modernism in cars being pulled by the fleet of Anachronism in motive power.
BaltACD Fleet of Modernism in cars being pulled by the fleet of Anachronism in motive power.
That's why I envy people who love NYCRR, B&O, N&W, MILW, CB&Q, ATSF, and Union Pacific's streamliners; their favorite streamliners were carefully decorated and streamlined entirely, not only the passenger cars but also included the motive power. NYCRR's Mercury is a classic example of creating and marketing a streamliner successfully; the glorious history of the streamlined 20th Century Limited is overwhelming.
For the PRR streamliners, the trains were powered by the streamlined GG1 on the east end of the system only. On the west end of the system, even the Broadway Limited was mostly powered by good old non-streamlined K4s. Let alone most of the FOM trains, except Trail Blazer, Jeffersonian and South Wind, were never entirely streamlined. Crack trains like Congressional and Senator were not even included in the Fleet of Modernism project after the Unit Train project got canceled.
I still see the whole FOM thing was half-baked. 50% due to PRR's management philosophy, 50% due to WWII. Nevertheless, the design of the FOM livery is fabulous.
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
Still, you've got to love the name...
"The Fleet of Modernism!"
When I say those words out loud I attempt the stentorian tone of a 1930's radio announcer, nothing else seems appropriate!
Flintlock76 Still, you've got to love the name... "The Fleet of Modernism!" When I say those words out loud I attempt the stentorian tone of a 1930's radio announcer, nothing else seems appropriate!
Definitely. Besides the name of it, those pre-war Pullman-built streamlined sleepers still looked very modern even by today's standard.
Niagras regularly pulled the 20th Century, the Pacemaker, and the Empire State Express. They were not streamlined, and the were not anachronistic.
And none of the Central's stramliners ever had streamlined power Harmon - GCT.
When Pennsy's T1s were allowed to go as far as Harrisburg, some PRR streamliners were pulled by streamlined powers on the entire route.
Also quite true when E7's and E8's replaced the T1's.
This leads me to wonder if there are proposed paint schemes for the prospective E6 order in the early '40s...
Overmod This leads me to wonder if there are proposed paint schemes for the prospective E6 order in the early '40s...
rcdrye Overmod This leads me to wonder if there are proposed paint schemes for the prospective E6 order in the early '40s... Streamlined Atlantics?
Streamlined Atlantics?
Oh, you must mean EP20s.
Interesting to consider what the E7s would be if the slantnose EMDs had taken EP20 'first'.
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Interesting to consider what the E7s would be if the slantnose EMDs had taken EP20 'first'. Subletters, probably...
Art Deco and the railroads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW9g44fvjrM
I bet Loewy and EMD both had some interesting ideas, too bad the order was canceled after War Production Board failed to approve. A paint scheme that matches the FOM livery would have been awesome.
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Photo of the day. April 30, 2020:
https://www.trains.com/ctr/photos-videos/photo-of-the-day/englewood-engines/
"The Pennsylvania Railroad liked to double-head K4s Pacifics on heavy passenger trains. Here, the second section of eastbound train 76, the Trail Blazer, leaves Englewood, Ill., in south suburban Chicago in January 1941."
Paul Eilenberger, Harold Stinton collection
Those double-headed K4's are impressive as hell, and they're putting on quite a show. But it reminds me of a post I made a while back (I forget which topic) where I said:
Imagine you're a businessman in 1938 riding the Broadway Limited from Chicago back to New York. Leaving Englewood station you look out the window to your left and see the 20th Century Limited in all its Dreyfuss streamlined glory, while your train is being pulled by two locomotives exactly the same as the one that pulled the train you rode off to war in as a young Doughboy in 1918.
And that Dreyfuss Hudson beats your train in the Englewood drag race!
(Which neither railroad will admit to running!)
Who's going to get your business next trip?
Seriously though, what wouldn't any of us give just to see doubleheaded K4's again? Or the drag race for that matter!
Flintlock76And that Dreyfuss Hudson beats your train in the Englewood drag race!
It might, if NYC thought they were racing but the PRR crews missed the memo or had an inconvenient RFE or other weasel riding that day. At least one story in Trains had doubleheader K4s reaching their practical highest speed in the low 90s without great difficulty -- they neither rode nor guided well at that speed, but could get there... and the track in the Englewood speedway is relatively level and straight.
Reminds me of that picture in Trains of a doubleheader B&O train (I believe with P7s) supposedly handily out-accelerating a GG1 that was puffing an amazing amount of road dust... according to the caption. I have always wondered if that were true.
I'll grant you the J3 with roller rods had considerably high permissible speed than most K4s, but it might be a while for it to reach that speed long enough to overcome the likely early lead... even if the new consist turned out significantly lighter than whatever ponderous FOM equipment might be over on the Pennsy. And nobody pulled the tape on that engine afterward...
Flintlock: Century on the right, not the left, leaving Englewood eastbound on the Broadway.
And, unless he is a railfan, why would the businessman inspect the head-end?
And post-WWII, what about a T1 vs. a Niagra?
I would hardly consider Englewood (roughly 63rd & State) to be a suburban stop, being well within the city limits.
OvermodYou really think a J-3a will out-accelerate two K4s in the speed range around Englewood?
Don't say it never happened.
Besides, they weren't racing, remember?
At any rate, what does it say to a potential customer when one railroad needs TWO locomotives to do a job that the competition only needs ONE for?
daveklepper Flintlock: Century on the right, not the left, leaving Englewood eastbound on the Broadway. And, unless he is a railfan, why would the businessman inspect the head-end? And post-WWII, what about a T1 vs. a Niagra?
Not purposely inspecting, but if he's looking out the window enjoying the ride he couldn't help but notice at some point.
Or, he could be waiting on the platform for the Broadway's arrival when the Century rolls in and gets a good look at it, they didn't always arrive at the same time. Or depart at the same time, according to an article in the current "Classic Trains."
Post-war? Another matter. And I'd love to see one of those races that never happened () between a T1 and a Niagara!
And the Century is on the Broadway passenger's left leaving Englewood.
Englewood is inside Chicago's city limits added in 1889 as part of a bunch of annexations. The station sat right on the boundary (S. State St) between the former townships of Lake and Hyde Park.
Flintlock76At any rate, what does it say to a potential customer when one railroad needs TWO locomotives to do a job that the competition only needs ONE for?
In addition, PRR -- while having the luxury of being able to discriminate snapping from helping -- had the interesting consequence of the relatively short but heavy grade in its Allegheny-divide crossing. One could argue that since this was so obviously going to be addressed 'correctly' next after 1938 with extension of electrification, why bother with expensive new steam (aka 'where's my E8s Atlantic?' in a different context) why not be prepared to use that other ¾ of a locomotive you don't "need" most of the trip to provide the snapping without stopping -- think of it as an alternative to using expensive and frequently tetchy boosters or auxiliary locomotives...
You are right that looking forward from the engineer's view, the Century is on the left. But if he is warching the race, it is from the obs at the rear, and the Century is on the right. And I did it, saw it. but with La Grange products. And I have to say, the Century did win, not by much, but it did win. View from Moutain ?View or Tower View. Enjoyed the Broadwat ride none the less.
OvermodThey only needed about ONE AND A QUARTER worth of locomotives to do the job because, although obsolescent, those Pacifics were very good obsolescent.
Oh, I know, I know, and I'll be one happy guy if and when they get 1361 running again. A classic!
Well, Bennett Levin's involved last I heard, and if he's involved it'll get done.
While the PRR's K4's were built in large numbers - they were not among the best of the Pacifics ever built.
Anecdote that my Father related from his first hand experiences between Baltimore and Washington on the B&O. Scheduling out of DC created 'races' between B&O and PRR on the trains operating North of DC in many cases. In the early 1920's the PRR trains with K4's would walk away from B&O trains and the Pacifics they were being operated with. In 1927 the B&O took delivery of their 'President' Pacifics (engines named for the first 20 Presidents of the US). With a President on the point, the B&O trains would walk the PRR's K4 led trains. When electrification was implemented the PRR GG-1's beat anything and everything the B&O had - steam or diesel.
Fascinating discussion, totally unexpected! I don't want to be nitpicky, Wayne, but you know the Broadway Limited ridership in 1938 was so low that it usually required only one single K4s to power the 9-car "lightweight" consist. So it would have been a "race" between a 9-car train powered by a Pacific and a longer train (12-car?) powered by a Hudson.
People who wanted to meet some new friends and looking for new business opportunities would definitely pick the 20th Century Limited; for people who wanted to enjoy a quiet long-distance overnight train ride, Broadway was the perfect train for them!
Jones1945Fascinating discussion, totally unexpected! I don't want to be nitpicky, Wayne, but you know the Broadway Limited ridership in 1938 was so low that it usually required only one single K4s to power the 9-car "lightweight" consist.
Oh, I heard about that, and it drove the Pennsy people crazy with envy! The Broadway had everything the Century did in the way of comfort, appointments, food, fares, running times, you name it, but the Century always got most of the high-end business.
"What do they got that WE ain't got?"
The Broadway got the last laugh, in a way. The Century died in 1967 while the Broadway lasted into the Amtrak era, although obviously not the same train it was in years past.
Looking at Pacifics, the B&M had some great ones, built in the Hudson era, and also recall the Reading had some built as late as 1948, last used on PRSL trains and the last steam into 30th Street along with the K4s.
The Broadway Limited was basically discontinued shortly after the Century was discontinued and the name was hung on the schedule of the General, right down to the number (48-49).
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