For what it's worth, I was on Amtrak 11, Southbound Coast Starlight tonight. I took a day trip to Santa Barbara for my birthday. We were essentially on time through Oxnard, Simi Valley and Van Nuys. We went into emergency about a quarter mile short of Burbank Airport. Tresspasser, as the conductor called it, was hit. We waited 3 hours for the coroner to arrive, and finally moved again 3 hours 10 min. late.
I walked into my home about half an hour ago, and see nothing on the local news. So, go figure. If it had happened in the daytime rush hour, it would have been all over the tv.
Very likely a homeless, but you never know. Sad all around.
It's hard to say just what the TV news people consider newsworthy or not.
I check the northern New Jersey on-line news sites daily just to see what's going on with the home folks and if a NJ Transit, Amtrak, CSX or NS train hits a tresspasser it's reported, usually without fail. It happens on average at least once a month. It's sad all right.
But again, these are on-line sights, not TV.
Almost all of trespassing fatalities seem to be suicides.
BackshopAlmost all of trespassing fatalities seem to be suicides.
For whatever the reasons, suicide has become much more prevalent in out 21st Century society than previously.'
We are hearing of many suicides from the military and police forces. Saw a article about a 21 YO athletic and acedemic stand out that took her own life. In my own favored hobby a under 40, 7 time National Champion with a thriving race preparation business decided to end it all. Neither of these party's use the railroad as their 'weapon' but they ended their lives never the less.
I don't have any answers, just the single question - Why?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDFor whatever the reasons, suicide has become much more prevalent in out 21st Century society than previously.'
Are they becoming more prevalent or are we (as a society) being more honest and open about when they happen?
The whole "he was cleaning his gun" thing and all.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmann BaltACD For whatever the reasons, suicide has become much more prevalent in out 21st Century society than previously.' Are they becoming more prevalent or are we (as a society) being more honest and open about when they happen? The whole "he was cleaning his gun" thing and all.
BaltACD For whatever the reasons, suicide has become much more prevalent in out 21st Century society than previously.'
I tend to think both are happening - suicide is more prevalent than in the past and more of the suicides are being factually reported.
While the pain may be over for those who committed suicide - the pain is just starting for those they left behind.
You are correct:
"On average, adjusted for age, the annual U.S. suicide rate increased 30% between 2000 and 2020, from 10.4 to 13.5 suicides per 100,000 people. In 2018, 14.2 people per 100,000 died by suicide, the highest rate recorded in more than 30 years." - CDC
Increased availability of firearms is a factor, as in over 50% of cases a firearm is used.
There really isn't increased availability of firearms. Purchase laws are stricter now than they were a few decades ago. If someone intent on committing suicide can't find a gun, they'll do it another way...train, OD, jumping, etc. I am aware of three suicides by gun. What was interesting is that none used their own gun. They all rented a gun at a range. IMO, the first one had a reason, the other two I could never figure out.
BackshopThere really isn't increased availability of firearms.
Firearms are no more available now than they were in 1960. Back then in addition to specialized gun shops you could buy firearms in department stores, sporting goods stores, general stores, or any retailer who felt like carrying them. You could even mail-order them from Sears-Roebuck, Montgomery Ward, or others.
All of the above depended on juristiction of course but Backshop's also correct when he says firearms laws are much stricter now than they were 62 years ago.
An interesting fact with firearms sucides though is the major majority of suicides who use a gun to kill themselves are men, women tend to use other means.
It's truly sad anyway you look at it, especially since help is so much more available now. But as the saying goes "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."
And if the CDC is correct, and I don't see why not, and suicides have increased 30% in the past 20 years the real question is why?
Maybe there is no answer. Not every question has an answer.
The TraceFirst, let’s start by looking at the number of guns. While there is no official (read: government) count of how many guns Americans own, the Small Arms Survey, a research project at the Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies in Geneva, provides one of the best available numbers. The organization’s most recent report, released in 2018, estimates that there are upward of 393 million civilian guns in circulation in the U.S. An additional 4.5 million guns are held by the military, and law enforcement agencies have another 1.2 million, for a total of 398.7 million guns. That accounts for nearly half the world’s firearms, and makes America the most armed country on Earth. The group derives its tally from gun registration figures, law enforcement and manufacturing data, published studies, and academic surveys of gun owners. (The count does not include ghost guns, which have no serial numbers and, because they’re homemade, aren’t reflected in gun industry manufacturing totals.)
That accounts for nearly half the world’s firearms, and makes America the most armed country on Earth. The group derives its tally from gun registration figures, law enforcement and manufacturing data, published studies, and academic surveys of gun owners. (The count does not include ghost guns, which have no serial numbers and, because they’re homemade, aren’t reflected in gun industry manufacturing totals.)
While they may be no more 'abailable' than in 1960 - there certainly appear to many more of them - and more of them also mean more of them fall into 'unqualified' hands. Guns in the USA are a absolute mess.
BaltACD The Trace First, let’s start by looking at the number of guns. While there is no official (read: government) count of how many guns Americans own, the Small Arms Survey, a research project at the Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies in Geneva, provides one of the best available numbers. The organization’s most recent report, released in 2018, estimates that there are upward of 393 million civilian guns in circulation in the U.S. An additional 4.5 million guns are held by the military, and law enforcement agencies have another 1.2 million, for a total of 398.7 million guns. That accounts for nearly half the world’s firearms, and makes America the most armed country on Earth. The group derives its tally from gun registration figures, law enforcement and manufacturing data, published studies, and academic surveys of gun owners. (The count does not include ghost guns, which have no serial numbers and, because they’re homemade, aren’t reflected in gun industry manufacturing totals.) While they may be no more 'abailable' than in 1960 - there certainly appear to many more of them - and more of them also mean more of them fall into 'unqualified' hands. Guns in the USA are a absolute mess.
The Trace First, let’s start by looking at the number of guns. While there is no official (read: government) count of how many guns Americans own, the Small Arms Survey, a research project at the Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies in Geneva, provides one of the best available numbers. The organization’s most recent report, released in 2018, estimates that there are upward of 393 million civilian guns in circulation in the U.S. An additional 4.5 million guns are held by the military, and law enforcement agencies have another 1.2 million, for a total of 398.7 million guns. That accounts for nearly half the world’s firearms, and makes America the most armed country on Earth. The group derives its tally from gun registration figures, law enforcement and manufacturing data, published studies, and academic surveys of gun owners. (The count does not include ghost guns, which have no serial numbers and, because they’re homemade, aren’t reflected in gun industry manufacturing totals.)
The huge number of firearms in circulation make them more easily obtained, legally or illegally.
Yes, male suicide rates are 3.7 times that of females.
While there are many more of them, our population has also expanded greatly. People don't commit suicide because they have a gun. They commit suicide because they are despondent and the gun is merely the vehicle that they use. They could also OD, jump, start the car in a closed garage, etc.
It's sorta like the whole opioid crisis. While not discounting immoral doctors and a specific drug company, many of the addicts would've been addicts of something else, if not opioids. When you have all these 20-30-somethings claiming that they have serious pain from injuries and that's how they started, it's mainly BS. People that young normally don't have traumatic injuries like that. They're just good actors when they go to the doctor's office.
I wonder what true numbers really are, as I'm sure many suicides are still ruled as "accidental", esp in close-knit smaller areas.
After too many sucides by train, Japanese RRs several years ago decided to sue the estates of those choosing this method of dying. The stated reason was protection of engineers from the ensueing trauma. I do not know if this reduced suicides or not. This may have worked because of the specific demographics involved.
zugmann I wonder what true numbers really are, as I'm sure many suicides are still ruled as "accidental", esp in close-knit smaller areas.
BackshopWhile there are many more of them, our population has also expanded greatly. People don't commit suicide because they have a gun. They commit suicide because they are despondent and the gun is merely the vehicle that they use. They could also OD, jump, start the car in a closed garage, etc.
The gun is far more likely to be fatal. With most other means, the person can change their mind and or initiate but then get help. I had or heard from colleagues of several of the latter over my 35 years of clinical practice. Guns are far more lethal.
Also, I gave rates per hundred thousand, not absolute numbers.
Backshop zugmann I wonder what true numbers really are, as I'm sure many suicides are still ruled as "accidental", esp in close-knit smaller areas. Several years ago, there were several people killed on the GTW just north of Detroit in Royal Oak. There was a lively nightlife downtown right next to the tracks. They were trying to get the railroad to fence off the RoW. They claimed that people went out and got drunk and didn't hear the trains when it was obvious that people got drunk so that they had the "courage" to commit suicide.
Several years ago, there were several people killed on the GTW just north of Detroit in Royal Oak. There was a lively nightlife downtown right next to the tracks. They were trying to get the railroad to fence off the RoW. They claimed that people went out and got drunk and didn't hear the trains when it was obvious that people got drunk so that they had the "courage" to commit suicide.
In what way was that obvious?
Still in training.
It happened a few times in quick succession and things like that normally bring copycats because now it's "okay" for them to do it. Unless you're wearing headphones, it's kinda hard not to hear a blaring train horn. If you're that drunk, you probably couldn't walk there in the first place.
There were 3 suicides at the gun range that I worked at. I was there for two of them. The first one, I had empathy for the victim, but not so much for the other two. The first one was a young woman who suffered from PTSD. She was from Iowa and was treated at the VA in Battle Creek. The treatment wasn't successful because she had the cab driver drop her off at our range near the Detroit airport. She shot several different guns and seemed happy-go-lucky until "that moment". The second was a middle aged man going through a divorce. The strange thing was his children were all adults so it wasn't a custody thing. In fact, one of his sons called up and apologized to us. The third one was the strangest. He was a 21yo Marine from Oklahoma, stationed at Camp Pendleton. He came in two nights in a row and did it the second night. Nobody could explain what he was doing in Michigan.
After that, us and the other big stores/ranges came out with a unified policy that we won't rent to unknown customers unless they are accompanied by a friend. We haven't had any suicides since then, to my knowledge.
A bizarre story against the odds but it demonstrates the statistic that firearms are the means of choice.
No empathy?
charlie hebdo A bizarre story against the odds but it demonstrates the statistic that firearms are the means of choice. No empathy?
As far as empathy, I had loads of it for the person with PTSD. The other two, not as much. This might sound cold, but the biggest fear that I had was someone accidentally shooting themselves or someone else. You make sure everyone knows the rules and you give a safety demonstration to all new(er) shooters, but you never know what they might do. I'd feel terrible if someone I instructed got wounded or killed. I made peace with myself on the suicides in that that's what they wanted and they didn't hurt anyone else.
Backshop charlie hebdo A bizarre story against the odds but it demonstrates the statistic that firearms are the means of choice. No empathy? No, that just says that I worked at a gun range. I'm sure any railroad engineer here has their stories where trains are the focus. Does that mean that trains are the means of choice. Or an ER doc would say he's seen more intentional ODs. Does that mean that drugs are the means of choice? As far as empathy, I had loads of it for the person with PTSD. The other two, not as much. This might sound cold, but the biggest fear that I had was someone accidentally shooting themselves or someone else. You make sure everyone knows the rules and you give a safety demonstration to all new(er) shooters, but you never know what they might do. I'd feel terrible if someone I instructed got wounded or killed. I made peace with myself on the suicides in that that's what they wanted and they didn't hurt anyone else.
No, that just says that I worked at a gun range. I'm sure any railroad engineer here has their stories where trains are the focus. Does that mean that trains are the means of choice. Or an ER doc would say he's seen more intentional ODs. Does that mean that drugs are the means of choice?
It might help if you actually read other posts. I said it demonstrates the statistics that show guns are the means in over 50%of suicides.
You don't understand what empathy is. Not the same as sympathy.
charlie hebdo You don't understand what empathy is. Not the same as sympathy.
BackshopIt happened a few times in quick succession and things like that normally bring copycats because now it's "okay" for them to do it.
Copycatting is real. Back in New Jersey in the 80's several high school students decided to commit group suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning. Parked the car in a garage, closed the door, turned on the ignition and waited for the inevitable.
Next thing you know over several ensuing weeks there were more in other towns. Why? God alone knows why.
Starting several years ago it seems copycat suicide by train on NJ Transit lines began when one was reported as an SBT. Then the others began and haven't stopped, averaging at least one per month. Now they're reported as "tresspasser strikes," probably so as not to give any others ideas. Maybe most are tresspassers who don't know any better or who just don't think. Who knows?
I realize we're off-topic, but ...
Some research is showing that much of the increase in depression and suicidal thoughts among young people may partially be linked to smart phones and social media (not the bullying in the news).
Many families and social groups have replaced physical interactions with online socializing.
York1 John
York1Some research is showing that much of the increase in depression and suicidal thoughts among young people may partially be linked to smart phones and social media (not the bullying in the news).
I have to wonder how much is due to the 24-hour news cycle with a constant drumbeat of crisis after crisis, doom report after doom report, and the typical "If it bleeds, it leads." Bad news from parts of the country and around the world we wouldn't have heard about years back we certainly hear about now. They've got to fill up that air time and can't be repetitious. I could see how it might affect some overly sensitive souls to believe everything's hopeless and the next world's GOT to be better than this one.
Not like the olden times when there were only three major networks with local and national news broadcast only from 6:00 to 8:00 PM and then "Film at 11:00."
Flintlock76 York1 Some research is showing that much of the increase in depression and suicidal thoughts among young people may partially be linked to smart phones and social media (not the bullying in the news). I have to wonder how much is due to the 24-hour news cycle with a constant drumbeat of crisis after crisis, doom report after doom report, and the typical "If it bleeds, it leads." Bad news from parts of the country and around the world we wouldn't have heard about years back we certainly hear about now. They've got to fill up that air time and can't be repetitious. I could see how it might affect some overly sensitive souls to believe everything's hopeless and the next world's GOT to be better than this one. Not like the olden times when there were only three major networks with local and national news broadcast only from 6:00 to 8:00 PM and then "Film at 11:00."
York1 Some research is showing that much of the increase in depression and suicidal thoughts among young people may partially be linked to smart phones and social media (not the bullying in the news).
Smart phones bring the outside world - worldwide, national, local and personal acquaintance right into a person's bedroom and personal space.
Bullying takes many forms and when some of those forms get inserted into someone's personal space it creates even more pressure on those that are least able to handle it.
BaltACDSmart phones bring the outside world - worldwide, national, local and personal acquaintance right into a person's bedroom and personal space. Bullying takes many forms and when some of those forms get inserted into someone's personal space it creates even more pressure on those that are least able to handle it.
Don't they realize the damn phones have an "off" switch?
Flintlock76 BaltACD Smart phones bring the outside world - worldwide, national, local and personal acquaintance right into a person's bedroom and personal space. Bullying takes many forms and when some of those forms get inserted into someone's personal space it creates even more pressure on those that are least able to handle it. Don't they realize the damn phones have an "off" switch?
BaltACD Smart phones bring the outside world - worldwide, national, local and personal acquaintance right into a person's bedroom and personal space. Bullying takes many forms and when some of those forms get inserted into someone's personal space it creates even more pressure on those that are least able to handle it.
Backshop Flintlock76 BaltACD Smart phones bring the outside world - worldwide, national, local and personal acquaintance right into a person's bedroom and personal space. Bullying takes many forms and when some of those forms get inserted into someone's personal space it creates even more pressure on those that are least able to handle it. Don't they realize the damn phones have an "off" switch? I agree. You also read about people telling the whole world their innermost thoughts and everything that they do. They don't have to know and it just gives them more fodder for their attacks on you.
I agree. You also read about people telling the whole world their innermost thoughts and everything that they do. They don't have to know and it just gives them more fodder for their attacks on you.
You know, in the Marines (And I'd imagine just about every other service) they taught us:
NEVER put ANYTHING out over the electromagnetic spectrum or unsecured line you don't want anyone else to hear! You might think you're talking to good ol' Joe from the second platoon, but chances are it's good ol' Ivan!
Good words to live by concerning communications that I live by to this day.
The 21st Century tells everyone entering it that you 'must be connected' or you will lose out. What you will 'lose out' on is immaterial - you will lose out.
Parents want to keep 'close tab' on their children and would probably punish them in many cases if they found them with the phone turned off. Phones, smart or otherwise are not the only devices that kids are entwined within - Ipads, Chromebooks, laptops - in today's world most schools provide or require students to have one of those devices in the normal course of their education.
The world as it exists today is no where near the world that most of us grew up in or for that matter raised our own children in.
Getting today's juveniles weaned off electronic devices and keeping those devices from impinging upon their 'personal space' is next to impossible.
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