HOW DO LONG-DISTANCE TRAINS PERFORM FINANCIALLY?

[CMStPnP]

JPS1

Why doesn’t Amtrak raise the average price of its tickets to at least cover the operating costs of the long-distance trains? 

They should I'll bet with the old inflation calculator exercise again we might find coach ticket prices cheaper today then they were when the Private Railroads were running the business.   Same deal with dining car meals.     I think the marketing of Amtrak is the problem, it was originally setup by Congress to attract the max amount of riders possible vs a specific rail clientel.    So pricing and marketing was simplified and the striations of all the different add-ons the Private Railroads had disappeared into just Coach Class and First Class.   No extra charge for Parlor,  Full Service Lounge car with bartender is gone,  seems to me I remember a lot more price levels for sleeping accomodations also different price levels between a premium train like the Super Chief and a non-premium train like the El Capitan.

All that is gone with Amtrak.

So First Class Sleeping Car Accomodations are not quite up to standard with those that would be willing to pay money for them and Coach Class could be made better and a higher ticket price charged there vs the Greyhound Bus approach on rails they use with Coach now.   Just listen to the complaints in this Forum.   Deluxe Sleeper is too expensive,  Economy Sleeper is too expensive.    Nobody complains about coach fares.

 

[JPS1]

GERALD L MCFARLANE JR

Rule #1, NEC costs should only be applied to NEC corridor trains...period, and not spread out amongst the whole system(as has been proven several times by a few state agencies that have looked at the numbers). 

The states contract with Amtrak to operate the state supported trains, e.g., Oklahoma and Texas have a contract with Amtrak to operate the Heartland Flyer.   

 

The states don’t have any direct involvement with the long-distance trains.  Their concern is the state supported trains.  If the states believe a disproportionate percentage of shared costs, i.e., stations, reservation centers, etc., are being allocated to the long-distance trains, they are not likely to squawk.  They would raise the issue if it is the other way around. 

 

No contract is perfect. The contracting parties often times interpret the terms differently.  To help reduce the potential for conflict, Amtrak and its state partners created the State-Amtrak Intercity Passenger Rail Committee (SAIPRC).  It brings the parties’ contract managers together to deal with a variety of issues. 

 

The notion that Amtrak arbitrarily allocates a disproportionate percentage of shared costs to the state supported trains is or vice versa not correct.

 

Five long-distance trains run on the NEC between New York City and Washington, D.C.; two other long-distance trains use joint facilities in NYC.  They are allocated costs associated with using the NEC.  It is the appropriate accounting treatment.   

 

The costing methodology for allocating NEC costs was developed pursuant to Section 212 of the Passenger Rail Investment & Improvement Act of 2008 (PRIIA).  

 

The long-distance trains that come in and out of NYC are serviced at Sunny Side Yard.  Yard crews switch cars in and out of trains as well as provide a variety of services.  The costs driven by these activities are allocated based on the number of locomotives, cars, etc. serviced and/or moved.  More cars mean more costs are allocated to a train. 

 

There is no evidence that the costs allocated to the long-distance trains along the NEC are improper. 

[JPS1]

CMStPnP

Nobody complains about coach fares. 

 

Here is a hint why they may not complain. 

For coach class travel from NYC to Chicago on the Lake Shore Limited, a seat would be $90 for travel on February 17^th.  From Washington to Chicago on the same date, the fare would be $84.  The fares change frequently, and they probably are lower than usual because of the pandemic. 

 

In 1957, the year that I graduated from high school, a one-way coach ticket on the PRR from NYC to Chicago was $34 (rounded).  Washington to Chicago was $29 (rounded).  When adjusted for inflation, using the Bureau of Labor Statistics CPI calculator, today the fares would be $321 from NYC to Chicago and $274 from Washington to Chicago. 

 

Amtrak would have to increase the price of a coach class ticket from NYC to Chicago 3.6 times and from Washington 3.1 times to be on a par with the coach fares in 1957. 

 

Fare comparisons would be different for intermediate stations to either end point station, but the picture is clear.  There are not enough people in the United States that are willing to pay a fare to cover the cost of the long-distance trains irrespective of whether they ride coach or sleeper class. 

[Overmod]

charlie hebdo

One would think linking St. Louis more directly with Memphis and points south would be a potential corridor,  as long as the trains entered the 21st century in frequency and overall speed. 

The problem is that there's currently no corridor-level traffic south of Memphis at least as far as Jackson, and while there is certainly a large potential demand for 'commuter' rail between the burgeoning development 'south of the border' in DeSoto County and whatever is cooking in the Tunica area, concentrating on one of the routes and not the other leaves many potential communities unserved, but perhaps not enough aggregate demand to serve both with anything larger than bus-sized.  There is also the concern between allocating subsidy between Mississippi and chronically cash-strapped far southwest Tennessee.  

I'm not sure what the traffic between Memphis and St. Louis would actually develop into with faster rail service, but it is inadequate to support more than a stop on the longer bus routes from Memphis to Chicago -- themselves now suspended in the pandemic, so likely not that grand.  This with the inherent number of communities accessible on the 'west bank' route of I-55; with the completion of I-269/69 north out of Tennessee toward Indianapolis, many of the communities served south of Carbondale may likewise be better served by buses to more disparate points as well as St. Louis directly (from whence HSR via tha Alton corridor might be expediently also reached)

If I recall correctly the rail connection from Carbondale across to St. Louis proper is about 61 miles, a bit too short for true HSR except if the equipment turns and continues, almost certainly north to continue in Illinois and not south to other states.  I'd argue that a high-quality shuttle operation, perhaps with multiple railcars timed to meet different services, would be of greater value than 'one-seat' trains on a less frequent schedule, especially if they turned south.

[charlie hebdo]

There have been serious proposals/studies by UI transportation department a few years ago to convert the old IC mainline into HSR (170 mph) south in Illinois to Chambana with branches over to Indy and StL. among other locales. 

I suppose the Mississippi Valley is different than other corridors?  St.  Louis all the way to New Orleans is ~670 miles via Interstates, ~10 hours vs over one day on bus + Amtrak or bus alone. Memphis and Jackson are the major intermediate population centers.  Feasible?  Useful?