There were three RR bridges across the Ohio River in Louisville. From east to west, they were the NYC (Big Four), PRR, now owned by the L & I RR & K&IT, now owned by NS. B&O, Monon, and Southern used the K&IT. PRR used its own and the NYC used its own. I believe that the Indiana interurban also used the NYC bridge. The B&O, IC and C&O used the riverfront Central Station while the PRR & L&N used the L&N Station. As to CSX, they now use the Louisville & Indianapolis (former PRR) via trackage rights between Louisville and Seymour and/or Indianapolis. L&N interchanged sleepers with the PRR both in Louisville and Cincinnati. And with the B&O in Cincinnati.
And at one time, NYC had passenger service into Louisville. But that was before my time.
B&O had sleepers from Louisville to Detroit, St.Louis, Washington and New York. Some transfered at North Vernon and some transfered at Cincinnati. B&O had three trains each way, #1 & 2, The National Limited, #3 & 4, The Diplomat, and #11 & 12, the Metropolitan.
It is amazing to think that after WWII ended in 1945, air travel was just beginning to (pardon the pun) take off and intercity travel was almost all by rail. No Interstates. No Jets.
The NYC bridge main span still exists but its approaches were removed in '68. I believe they now have been replaced with pedestrian facilities
CMStPnP BaltACD I never heard any stories of the L&N operating commuter trains. My mistake.....it was PRR, wow, check it out though, more extensive than I could ever imagine but all of it torn up and abandoned including the EL train along the Louisville waterfront. https://historiclouisville.weebly.com/interurban-elevated-rail.html The pictures of the bridge I have seen show it still has two tracks but the second track is cut at each end and CSX just operates over the one remaining track.
BaltACD I never heard any stories of the L&N operating commuter trains.
My mistake.....it was PRR, wow, check it out though, more extensive than I could ever imagine but all of it torn up and abandoned including the EL train along the Louisville waterfront.
https://historiclouisville.weebly.com/interurban-elevated-rail.html
The pictures of the bridge I have seen show it still has two tracks but the second track is cut at each end and CSX just operates over the one remaining track.
I had not heard of the B&O operating trains between Louisville and Charlestown Ammo plant during WW II - though it does make sense if the bulk of the work force was from Louisville (and Charlestown was in the wilderness in WW II) as there would be very few locally domiciled employees.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDI never heard any stories of the L&N operating commuter trains.
CMStPnP BaltACD Columbus to St.Louis was the former PRR. Chicago to Louisville via Seymour was also the PRR. I believe by the time ConRail was created the Chicago/Louisville line was basically 10 MPH account track conditions-I presume that ConRail did some plant rationalization prior to the ConRail split with the NS. The B&O line between Newark and Columbus was what the PRR used as their Main Line between the two cities; it was Dispatched by the B&O - in turn the line the B&O used between JO Tower in Akron and Warwick was jointly owned by the B&O & PRR (they each owned one track of the double track line) and was Dispatched by the PRR. OK, long ago lived in Louisville for 2 years the PRR Bridge across the Ohio River is both massive and a Loiusville landmark. It was built and financed by L&N but PRR later purchased L&N's 60% interest. From what I understand L&N used to run Commute trains over it and into Indiana but those ended a long time ago.
BaltACD Columbus to St.Louis was the former PRR. Chicago to Louisville via Seymour was also the PRR. I believe by the time ConRail was created the Chicago/Louisville line was basically 10 MPH account track conditions-I presume that ConRail did some plant rationalization prior to the ConRail split with the NS. The B&O line between Newark and Columbus was what the PRR used as their Main Line between the two cities; it was Dispatched by the B&O - in turn the line the B&O used between JO Tower in Akron and Warwick was jointly owned by the B&O & PRR (they each owned one track of the double track line) and was Dispatched by the PRR.
OK, long ago lived in Louisville for 2 years the PRR Bridge across the Ohio River is both massive and a Loiusville landmark. It was built and financed by L&N but PRR later purchased L&N's 60% interest. From what I understand L&N used to run Commute trains over it and into Indiana but those ended a long time ago.
When I was working on the B&O's St. Louis Division in 1966 as a Train Order Operator and spent a week working WS Tower at Watson, IN, I believe both the B&O & PRR used the K&IT bridge to cross the Ohio River into Louisville. The PRR Chicago-Louisville Main line ran straight to the bridge. The B&O ran to access the bridge from the East of it. Watson was the interchange between the B&O and the Southern Indiana railroad; a B&O line ran about 8 miles South from Watson to Jeffersonville, IN where the B&O had its TOFCEE ramp; it was also where a spur was constructed from the K&IT bridge to and through Watson into the Charlestown Ammunition Depot during WW II.
I got some time to walk the interlocking limits of the plant - which had B&O CPL's on the B&O routes and PRR Position Light signals on the PRR routes. Signal maintainer was required to keep all elements of the interlocking operational and the signals lit for all all routes - that being said there were 8 inch to a foot diameter trees growing in the gauge of the PRR routes as shortly after WW II the PRR stoped operating to the ammunition plant.
I never heard any stories of the L&N operating commuter trains.
BaltACDColumbus to St.Louis was the former PRR. Chicago to Louisville via Seymour was also the PRR. I believe by the time ConRail was created the Chicago/Louisville line was basically 10 MPH account track conditions-I presume that ConRail did some plant rationalization prior to the ConRail split with the NS. The B&O line between Newark and Columbus was what the PRR used as their Main Line between the two cities; it was Dispatched by the B&O - in turn the line the B&O used between JO Tower in Akron and Warwick was jointly owned by the B&O & PRR (they each owned one track of the double track line) and was Dispatched by the PRR.
CMStPnP BaltACD The line fron North Vernon to Louisville is the line CSX has eliminated. The former B&O line from Cincinnati to St. Louis through North Vernon still exists, however, it has been rendered inoperable between Noble and Caseyville, IL. The rails still exist, it has not been officially abandoned but the rails have been cut. From Detroit to Louisville trains operated Detroit-Cincinnati-North Vernon-Louisville. OK, I see I think I had the wrong line. I thought you meant the B&O line that crosses midway in Indiana on it's way to St. Louis from Columbus, OH. The map I am looking at shows they cross that line at Seymour, IN but on trackage rights. I can't believe they abandoned Chicago to Louisville. No wonder they are trying to partner with whatever that shortline is in Indiana from Indianapolis to Louisville. Trying to restore that route.
BaltACD The line fron North Vernon to Louisville is the line CSX has eliminated. The former B&O line from Cincinnati to St. Louis through North Vernon still exists, however, it has been rendered inoperable between Noble and Caseyville, IL. The rails still exist, it has not been officially abandoned but the rails have been cut. From Detroit to Louisville trains operated Detroit-Cincinnati-North Vernon-Louisville.
OK, I see I think I had the wrong line. I thought you meant the B&O line that crosses midway in Indiana on it's way to St. Louis from Columbus, OH. The map I am looking at shows they cross that line at Seymour, IN but on trackage rights.
I can't believe they abandoned Chicago to Louisville. No wonder they are trying to partner with whatever that shortline is in Indiana from Indianapolis to Louisville. Trying to restore that route.
Columbus to St.Louis was the former PRR. Chicago to Louisville via Seymour was also the PRR. I believe by the time ConRail was created the Chicago/Louisville line was basically 10 MPH account track conditions-I presume that ConRail did some plant rationalization prior to the ConRail split with the NS.
The B&O line between Newark and Columbus was what the PRR used as their Main Line between the two cities; it was Dispatched by the B&O - in turn the line the B&O used between JO Tower in Akron and Warwick was jointly owned by the B&O & PRR (they each owned one track of the double track line) and was Dispatched by the PRR.
BaltACDThe line fron North Vernon to Louisville is the line CSX has eliminated. The former B&O line from Cincinnati to St. Louis through North Vernon still exists, however, it has been rendered inoperable between Noble and Caseyville, IL. The rails still exist, it has not been officially abandoned but the rails have been cut. From Detroit to Louisville trains operated Detroit-Cincinnati-North Vernon-Louisville.
The C&O line from Lexington - Winchester - Ashland , Ky that follows what is now I-64 evidently was abandoned by C&O. Line still intact LEX- Louisville ?
CMStPnP BaltACD CSX has eliminated most of the line. OK so there is no more of the St. Louis National Limited line or did CSX replace it with a parallel line? Just curious. They still service Louisville from Chicago so I would guess at some point that line crosses any East-West line they have.
BaltACD CSX has eliminated most of the line.
OK so there is no more of the St. Louis National Limited line or did CSX replace it with a parallel line? Just curious. They still service Louisville from Chicago so I would guess at some point that line crosses any East-West line they have.
The line fron North Vernon to Louisville is the line CSX has eliminated. The former B&O line from Cincinnati to St. Louis through North Vernon still exists, however, it has been rendered inoperable between Noble and Caseyville, IL. The rails still exist, it has not been officially abandoned but the rails have been cut.
From Detroit to Louisville trains operated Detroit-Cincinnati-North Vernon-Louisville.
BaltACDCSX has eliminated most of the line.
Overmod BaltACD I believe the B&O also had trains with sleepers that had connections from Detroit through both Cincinnai and Louisville. Through Cincinnati to the Southern and to the IC through Louisville. I think this may be sideways somehow. IC had nothing that seems to be going in a B&O direction; their connecting trains went west to Fulton. Was this a B&O service from Detroit to St. Louis? B&O is indicated as having departures from Louisville to Cincinnati (train 54, the Great Lakes Limited) separate from service to Detroit (train 58) with the only other service listed being to North Vernon (which I believe is in Indiana, utterly the wrong direction for a logical connection in Louisville to anything to the south, and not connecting there to anything logical I can see for the B&O to interchange sleepers with to go further...) On the other hand there are some positive connections over the L&N south of Louisville that would be logical ways to get south, and a connection with C&O to Ashland which might be a way to connect to B&O a bit further east... What is the exact way the B&O ran south or east out of Louisville via connection?
BaltACD I believe the B&O also had trains with sleepers that had connections from Detroit through both Cincinnai and Louisville. Through Cincinnati to the Southern and to the IC through Louisville.
I think this may be sideways somehow.
IC had nothing that seems to be going in a B&O direction; their connecting trains went west to Fulton. Was this a B&O service from Detroit to St. Louis?
B&O is indicated as having departures from Louisville to Cincinnati (train 54, the Great Lakes Limited) separate from service to Detroit (train 58) with the only other service listed being to North Vernon (which I believe is in Indiana, utterly the wrong direction for a logical connection in Louisville to anything to the south, and not connecting there to anything logical I can see for the B&O to interchange sleepers with to go further...)
On the other hand there are some positive connections over the L&N south of Louisville that would be logical ways to get south, and a connection with C&O to Ashland which might be a way to connect to B&O a bit further east... What is the exact way the B&O ran south or east out of Louisville via connection?
According to "Route of the National Limited (Baltimore & Ohio Passenger Service, 1945-1971 , Vol 1)" by Harry Stegmaier the B&O quit Louisville market when the IC was its last connection and had eliminated service to Memphis from Louisville.
B&O serviced Louisville by a connection to the Cincinnati-St.Louis main line at North Vernon, IN. CSX has eliminated most of the line.
BaltACDI believe the B&O also had trains with sleepers that had connections from Detroit through both Cincinnai and Louisville. Through Cincinnati to the Southern and to the IC through Louisville.
B&O is indicated as having departures from Louisville to Cincinnati (train 54, the Great Lakes Limited) separate from service to Detroit (train 58) with the only other service listed being to North Vernon (which I believe is in Indiana, utterly the wrong direction for a logical connection in Louisville to anything to the south, and not connecting there to anything logical by way of a foreign road I can see for the B&O to interchange sleepers with to go further...)
blue streak 1New York Central did run a connection sleeper from Detroit - Cincinnatti that connected to SOU rr's royal Palm to Florida amd onto the FEC RR. http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track2/newroyalpalm195103.html
http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track2/newroyalpalm195103.html
I believe the B&O also had trains with sleepers that had connections from Detroit through both Cincinnai and Louisville. Through Cincinnati to the Southern and to the IC through Louisville.
New York Central did run a connection sleeper from Detroit - Cincinnatti that connected to SOU rr's royal Palm to Florida amd onto the FEC RR.
The B&O more direct train Cincy-Toledo (continuing on to Detroit) lasted until the eve of Amtrak. The Dayton TV station did a news story about the last train and its engineer who was retiring that day.
charlie hebdoAnd now (for years), no north-south passenger service nor any through Columbus.
https://radio.wosu.org/post/curious-cbus-what-happened-passenger-rail-columbus
I haven't even bothered to look up when north-south NYC service to Toledo, even provided by a nominally more 'patronized' Cincy-to-Detroit service, became unprofitable...
Electroliner 1935 What was your starting location. The BIG FOUR, C.C.C. & St.L (Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago, & St.Louis) main routes were Cleveland - St. Louis, Cincinnati - Chicago, Cincinnati - Cleveland. The NYC had other lines such as the TOC (Toledo & Ohio Central) which was used for my trains route from Kenton to Toledo. NYC Cincy to Toledo was North through Middletown, Dayton, Springfield, Urbana, Bellefontaine, Kenton, Adrian, Fostoria, Toledo. NYC trains, Cincinnati to Cleveland followed this route to Springfield where they turned East toward London and Columbus. At Bellefontaine, the Toledo trains crossed the Cleveland - St.Louis route. NYC had two trains daily between Cincinnati and Detroit, plus an Indianapolis to Detroit train w/sleeper. This was in '52. A good time for riding trains. The downhill slide had started.
What was your starting location. The BIG FOUR, C.C.C. & St.L (Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago, & St.Louis) main routes were Cleveland - St. Louis, Cincinnati - Chicago, Cincinnati - Cleveland. The NYC had other lines such as the TOC (Toledo & Ohio Central) which was used for my trains route from Kenton to Toledo.
NYC Cincy to Toledo was North through Middletown, Dayton, Springfield, Urbana, Bellefontaine, Kenton, Adrian, Fostoria, Toledo.
NYC trains, Cincinnati to Cleveland followed this route to Springfield where they turned East toward London and Columbus. At Bellefontaine, the Toledo trains crossed the Cleveland - St.Louis route.
NYC had two trains daily between Cincinnati and Detroit, plus an Indianapolis to Detroit train w/sleeper. This was in '52. A good time for riding trains. The downhill slide had started.
And now (for years), no north-south passenger service nor any through Columbus.
MidlandMikeWhat was the route of the NYC train
Electroliner 1935 A friend and I took the morning NYC train from Cincy to Toledo and returned by the B &O's Cincinnatian.
What was the rout of the NYC train? When I first went to Ohio on the NYC in 1966, you would have had to connect thru Cleveland.
Perhaps the most unusual interior design were the animal crackers in the North Shore Electroliner cafes. Can be seen at IRM-Union, IL, today.
Cincinnatian was originally Baltimore/Cincinnati and was switched to Detroit/Cincinnati in 1950
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyoOTgqM76Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdqdpgF9c5w
BaltACDThe B&O's Streamlined Cincinnatian that was build in the company's Mt.Clare shops had all its cars named for Cincinnati neighborhoods and displays of various scenes generic to Cincinnati - all pulled off with heavy doses of art-deco structural objects - chairs, ashtrays, archways etc.
The B&O did a beautiful job when they rebuild old heavy weight six wheel truck cars into the five car Cincinnatian train. Sleepy Hollow seats, boattail observation car. Streamlined Pacific Loco's, all in the B&O blue and grey paint scheme. From. Wilipedia
And I will always remember when I (being uneducated in high class manors) took one of my one day trips going out one way and returning via another. A friend and I took the morning NYC train from Cincy to Toledo and returned by the B &O's Cincinnatian. The end car was a dining, lounge, observation and we chose to eat in the diner. Upon finishing the meal, our server brought silver bowls of warm water and big cloth napkins. I was confused but fortunately, my friend knew about finger bowls and so we dipped our fingers and dried them.
And one operational move for that train was its back up move to get to the C.H.& D. tracks. The route between Cincinnati and Glendale required that a NB train after leaving Winton Place had to stop, and back across Spring Grove Ave to the CH&D's Spring Grove Ave "jct", then proceed North toward Hamilton. There was a backup valve behind a panel next to the back door of the observation car and the conductor would take a seat there and after the train passed the NA tower, (which also controlled the B&O jct with the NYC) the engineer would stop and as we cleared the plant, the operator would line the route to the connecting track, and clear the signal. Three blasts on the signal air line and the train accelerated toward the connecting track. You could see the gates come down on Spring Grove Ave and then you came into view of the hand thrown swtiches at Spring Grove Ave. The operator was standing near the switch and would give a highball as we approached. As the locomotive cleared the switch, he would throw it and immediately we would be accelerating to track speed. I wonder now whether there was any other location where some train made a similar move?
Amtrak's Cardinal follows this route but CSX replaced the back up connector with new bridges across Spring Grove and Mitchell Ave and the C.H.& D was removed south of the new connection. The Cardinal takes much longer to cover this section.
Warren JWould you believe that humongous potato made famous onboard the North Coast Limited was actually grown in the Yakima Valley of Washington State (not Idaho nor Montana)? The railroad bought all of those potatoes that did not exceed two pounds to create its trademarked baked potato.
Wish I had one in front of me right now with some more butter on the side! Not even the Irish overcoat would be left...
[quote user="CMStPnP"]
Would you believe that humungous potato made famous onboard the North Coast Limited was actually grown in the Yakima Valley of Washington State (not Idaho nor Montana)? The railroad bought all of those potatoes that did not exceed two pounds to create its trademarked baked potato. These were "Netted Gem Bakers" and would appear on your plate, drenched with butter, for only ten cents!
JPS1 Some of the pictures in this link show the southwest decor that was used for the El. Capitan cars. http://www.rtabern.com/ppc/santafe.html
They had some pretty neat sand paintings in some of those cars as well I believe I saw on one publicity photo. I think the Acoma has one in it (it's a private chair car now).
I think my favorite was seeing an old Northern Pacific Diner at Ozark Mountain Rail with the black and white cow hide snack bar seats and the old Montana Ranch out West Decor......that was really cool. I guess one of their famous menu items was either an Idaho or Montana baked Potato.
“Things of quality have no fear of time.”
daveklepperAdd the Illinois Central's New Orleans French Quarter theme on boith the Panama Limited and the City of New Orleans.
Most all carriers that operated 'streamliners' made the 'decoration' of them to align with the landmarks and customs of the geographical areas the streamliners operated in and through. The style of that decoration could take many forms including 'art deco', other styles of decoration could also be used.
B&O styled a number of their diners in the Colonial motif, including heavy wood chairs instead of art-deco formed metal chairs - and named those diners for a number of Colonial women - and also featured the B&O Blue china with scenes of significant happenings of the history of the B&O.
The B&O's Streamlined Cincinnatian that was build in the company's Mt.Clare shops had all its cars named for Cincinnati neighborhoods and displays of various scenes generic to Cincinnati - all pulled off with heavy doses of art-deco structural objects - chairs, ashtrays, archways etc.
Add the Illinois Central's New Orleans French Quarter theme on boith the Panama Limited and the City of New Orleans.
I agree. I recall riding the Afternoon Zephyr from Chicago to East Dubuque back in fall 1968. Still high standards. I think by then it was a combined train of the Zephyr, a GN train and NP train, which split in the Twin Cities.
GN_FanI rode NP's North Coast Ltd between Chicago and Missoula, MT for 4 round trips plus a one-way in the mid-60's. All the cars were Lewis and Clark oriented, especially the Traveler's Rest which had a wall-to-over-rhe-ceiling mural of the Lewis and Clark expedition of 1805-06. I also rode the Empire Builder from Libby, MT to Chicago in 1965, and it had the theme of Blackfoot and north coast Indians in every car. Amtrak's full dome (now deceased), along with all the coachs having partitions decorated with frosted glass panels of NW indians. It was all one of a kind thing. Amtrak gutted all GN decorations on the Ocean View favor of a bland, we favor nothing and offend no one decor. What a waste. Add Quote to your Post
I agree, the Amtrak ulitarian standardization of interiors that took place after the mid-1970's was a shame. I thought it was pretty cool traversing an Amtrak Train like the Empire Builder and seeing the interior decor change car to car and the design theme change. It was pretty cool. I remember the most the Great Northern Vista Dome Cars as being really comfortable......some were repainted in the Sky Blue scheme. Also, the Santa Fe dining cars I liked as well. The Amtrak rainbow consist era was about 5-7 years but too short to fully enjoy.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.