"High-speed" (95mph) sleeper in China:
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
Jones1945"High-speed" (95mph) sleeper in China:
Look like US Section sleeper without the ability to be configured for day travel. In the day Pullman had curtins that were more privacy enhancing, however, in the Pullman days the Upper Section did not have its own window on the world.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I don't know if anyone remembers but we had an amusing thread here a few years ago when a Chinese student attempted to patent that exciting new HSR amenity, the open section. So don't laugh if you think it looks familiar...
BaltACD Jones1945 "High-speed" (95mph) sleeper in China: Look like US Section sleeper without the ability to be configured for day travel. In the day Pullman had curtins that were more privacy enhancing, however, in the Pullman days the Upper Section did not have its own window on the world.
Jones1945 "High-speed" (95mph) sleeper in China:
Johnny
Did you note the statement in the vdeo about the Chinese overnight service that traveling by night gives another day of sightseeing? Is that service or what?
I agree that this accommodation is not suitable for day travel.
Deggesty The first upper berth in which I rode (in the car American Sailor), had a window. 60 of these cars (6-6-4) were built in 1942. I rode in it from North Cairo to Birmingham in 1965. It was not just the Illinois Terminal that had sleepers with windows in the upper berth. Granted, the idea did not catch on more more roads. Did you note the statement in the vdeo about the Chinese overnight service that traveling by night gives another day of sightseeing? Is that service or what? I agree that this accommodation is not suitable for day travel.
The first upper berth in which I rode (in the car American Sailor), had a window. 60 of these cars (6-6-4) were built in 1942. I rode in it from North Cairo to Birmingham in 1965. It was not just the Illinois Terminal that had sleepers with windows in the upper berth. Granted, the idea did not catch on more more roads.
From what I can find on YouTube, there are at least two different types of "High-Speed" sleeper train in China's HSR network, this one showing the older model with "traditional layout":
I guess these sleepers were originally designed for long-distance routes ( >500km) and for the traveler who prefers to depart at night and arrive their destination on the next morning (same logic like the 20th Century and the Broadway limited). But I can see they are running between Beijing and Shanghai which is only a six hour ride. Maybe it is a tradition of mainland China since sleeper (long distance train and buses) is part of the mainland Chinese's collective memories.IIRC, there are at least four options of HSR/HST service between Beijing and Shanghai (and many cities); third-class (coach), second-class (coach) and business class or Sleeper train.
LD Sleeper in Japan:
Jones1945LD Sleeper in Japan:
From the nation that brought us the capsule hotel and Ginza-style real estate prices to make such things attractive.
I happen to like the idea of a padded bunk I can roll into, with a window and amenities at my fingertips, presumably including a swing-down multimedia screen I can easily work -- navigation and all -- from my comfortable posture whether on back, front, or sides. The idea here is to maximize the salable 'sleeper' accommodation by dividing the car volume into these modules, far beyond what any 'Slumbercoach' or tourist sleeper could provide, and then presumably providing enough stand-up accommodation elsewhere in the train that 'getting out of bed' and walking around, eating, etc. can be accommodated -- it's that you don't go back to a seat instead of the capsule berth afterward, unless it is something like a 'business center' seat where you only occupy it a limited time, or for a fee, before relinquishing it to another.
I can't imagine most of the people who currently choose to ride Amtrak embracing this sort of accommodation. At all. Even if they're in physical shape to use it, which a great many really aren't.
It does occur to me that the idea of putting this into a modular CAF Viewliner shell might be an interesting thing for youth hostel type operations, or some tour or special-interest companies that can provide enough on some scheduled basis to fill the car to operating profitability. Anderson would have to bend some of his present ukases -- but I suspect if you had at all reasonable numbers he'd try it. Hell, I'd ride it instead of sitting in short-track coach all night or spending many times the alternative 'bus budget' for a stinky Superliner ride.
[quote user="Overmod"I can't imagine most of the people who currently choose to ride Amtrak embracing this sort of accommodation. At all. [/quote]
charlie hebdo MidlandMike Modern passenger service is what is well used and exists today, anything else is interpretation. It is not a matter of interpretation. Modern passenger service is what exists in many other countries in the world, but sadly not here, with a few exceptions. Perhaps you should try riding some contemporary overseas passenger rail services instead of referring to a time 50+ years ago.
MidlandMike Modern passenger service is what is well used and exists today, anything else is interpretation.
It is not a matter of interpretation. Modern passenger service is what exists in many other countries in the world, but sadly not here, with a few exceptions. Perhaps you should try riding some contemporary overseas passenger rail services instead of referring to a time 50+ years ago.
I have ridden in Switzerland, and some equipment was up-to-the-minute, and some was of typical Amtrak age. However I was not talking about equipment, but I was responding to your LD vs. corridor operations. I had pointed out that daylight trains were nothing new (and many disappeared as railroads tried to combine as much of their service into fewer longer trains.) I am all in favor of having daytime corridor trains serving routes that LD trains serve overnight, however, under present law, states would have to support them, and few have done so far. Also, I don't subscribe to Classic Trains.
MidlandMike You might notice that the 3 stations that serve Glacier Nat'l Park (East Glacier, Essex, West Glacier) combined had slightly more passengers than Milwaukee. Also, Whitefish, the developed tourist town just outside Glacier NP, had more than double the passengers of Milwaukee. Milwaukee is not even in the top ten of city pairs on the EB. It's more important that transportation goes where people want to go, reather than just where people live.
You might notice that the 3 stations that serve Glacier Nat'l Park (East Glacier, Essex, West Glacier) combined had slightly more passengers than Milwaukee. Also, Whitefish, the developed tourist town just outside Glacier NP, had more than double the passengers of Milwaukee. Milwaukee is not even in the top ten of city pairs on the EB. It's more important that transportation goes where people want to go, reather than just where people live.
https://iflyglacier.com/major-cities-served/
[quote user="JPS1"]
[/quote]I'm just slightly younger than the Amtrak norm (I'll be 60 in 2 weeks) and I much prefer to fly. In fact, I'll be going to Amsterdam in 8 days and my wife and I are first on the upgrade list for Delta One Suites. We're flying back from Rome two weeks later and purchased the "old" Delta One seats. Maybe I'll write a trip report... I'd like to take a "land cruise" train but have no desire to ride a regular LD train. Life's too short to be stuck on a train that long.
BackshopI'm just slightly younger than the Amtrak norm (I'll be 60 in 2 weeks) and I much prefer to fly. In fact, I'll be going to Amsterdam in 8 days and my wife and I are first on the upgrade list for Delta One Suites. We're flying back from Rome two weeks later and purchased the "old" Delta One seats. Maybe I'll write a trip report... I'd like to take a "land cruise" train but have no desire to ride a regular LD train. Life's too short to be stuck on a train that long.
Yes, the Rome trip on Amtrak is particularly long, and the view can be impaired dramatically by blown spray at this season of the year. I'm not sure if the FRA-mandated 79mph limit applies when PTC is not present (as I suspect it won't be in international waters) but that's not even Zeppelin-range speed, so the effects of Anderson's 'cuisine choices' might become almost mind-numbingly paramount by the time you got where you were going. I'm not surprised you prefer to fly.
BackshopThe average age of Amtrak’s sleeping car passengers is 61. Assuming a normal distribution, many of them will be dead in the not too distance future.
I am long passed (+22) that age and depending where I need to be, I mostly drive or fly. No way to get to Washington Island WI by train or plane. Cincinnati, Central Kentucky (Corbin) are drive. However, two years ago, our granddaughter graduated from USC and we flew there, and returned via Amtrak's Southwest Chief. Time was not the issue, nor was cost. the choice was made for the experience. Wife tolerated the need to get into upper bed account I had to use the lower for power for my CPAP machine. Otherwise, we both enjoyed the almost on time (about a half hour late into Naperville) trip home. Have not had a bad experience on Southwest Airlines.
1. Church not in Parish or Winter Garden. Still searching.
2. Not in the pix, holding the camera taking the photos.
3. When today's youngsters become oldsters, they will have the same reasons to use LDTs as today's oldsters.
daveklepper 3. When today's youngsters become oldsters, they will have the same reasons to use LDTs as today's oldsters.
daveklepperWhen today's youngsters become oldsters, they will have the same reasons to use LDTs as today's oldsters.
The advantages of LDTs for the elderly, in principle, are not in question.
The question is whether the elderly are a sufficient reason to retain Amtrak's version of LD 'service', at its likely future cost. It would be a lovely thing to have full chauffeured service as 'paratransit' for the elderly and disabled ... and I'm surprised that a service like Uber or Lyft hasn't set up a 'pro bono' incentive program to establish that sort of thing with low-floor vehicles with adaptive suspension ... but who's going to pay for all the unfunded millions or billions to provide it if it has to be done in a way that recovers its costs ... as Amtrak since 2015 has been mandated to achieve not later than 2022? I doubt we'll have a Bellamy-style mass attitude change toward senior travel accommodation, especially as the current 'young' generations become the key decision-makers.
Very true. Since there are limits on funding, the Utilitarian meme "the greatest amount of good for the greatest number" seems to apply fully as a guiding principle.
Overmod... and I'm surprised that a service like Uber or Lyft hasn't set up a 'pro bono' incentive program to establish that sort of thing with low-floor vehicles with adaptive suspension ... but who's going to pay for all the unfunded millions or billions to provide it if it has to be done in a way that recovers its costs ...
Uber has never shown a profit, and last year lost $1.8 billion. Maybe their bigger concern is survivability. Where is any data that says it would be less expensive than the incremental cost to Amtrak? Plus you would lose the alternative transportation option for all those other people who choose to travel by train.
Uber has majorly raised prices over the last two years. Friends have gone from commuting via Uber to back to their SUV. (large to boot!)
MidlandMike Overmod ... and I'm surprised that a service like Uber or Lyft hasn't set up a 'pro bono' incentive program to establish that sort of thing with low-floor vehicles with adaptive suspension ... but who's going to pay for all the unfunded millions or billions to provide it if it has to be done in a way that recovers its costs ... Uber has never shown a profit, and last year lost $1.8 billion. Maybe their bigger concern is survivability. Where is any data that says it would be less expensive than the incremental cost to Amtrak? Plus you would lose the alternative transportation option for all those other people who choose to travel by train.
Overmod ... and I'm surprised that a service like Uber or Lyft hasn't set up a 'pro bono' incentive program to establish that sort of thing with low-floor vehicles with adaptive suspension ... but who's going to pay for all the unfunded millions or billions to provide it if it has to be done in a way that recovers its costs ...
Many towns and counties already provide low-cost (subsidized) individual transport door to door for seniors and the disabled.
Yes, Uber cut it's loss to under two billion dollars , but the important part is continued growth of revenue to over $11 billion. This is the same pattern seen in many successful monster companies in the last twenty five years.
charlie hebdoMany towns and counties already provide low-cost (subsidized) individual transport door to door for seniors and the disabled.
Yes, my small town does that also, along with dial-a-ride for the general public. The subsidies on its losses are always an issue.
As far as Uber, it is labor intensive, and their labor is becoming restless.
MidlandMike charlie hebdo Many towns and counties already provide low-cost (subsidized) individual transport door to door for seniors and the disabled. Yes, my small town does that also, along with dial-a-ride for the general public. The subsidies on its losses are always an issue. As far as Uber, it is labor intensive, and their labor is becoming restless.
charlie hebdo Many towns and counties already provide low-cost (subsidized) individual transport door to door for seniors and the disabled.
Uber seems an obvious candidate for automation.
That is basically Uber's aim. Their goal is a ride service with self-driving cars and the hope that it happens before the money runs out from paying drivers.
CSSHEGEWISCHThat is basically Uber's aim. Their goal is a ride service with self-driving cars and the hope that it happens before the money runs out from paying drivers.
Let's hope not, for their sake.
We realized back in the late '70s, in connection with what was then called PRT, that even if the liability issues associated with unpiloted vehicles (which were then under full "computer control" on dedicated guideways, not 'autonomous' in the current sense) could be solved or 'addressed away', the problems of crime associated with unattended vehicles likely couldn't be. These start with vandalism (or theft of expensive components) and proceed upward through various 'offenses against the person' that become easy when there's no driver involved to mediate or 'rat out' the folks involved all the way up to the full analogue of carjacking.
If you have any doubts where this ends up, look at rental electric bicycles in places like London.
(Be fun to see if the insurance companies learned their lesson about providing feel-good flight insurance when the time comes for autonomous regional aircraft to start operating ... if you take my meaning.)
Elderly and handicapped access to the continent may be the most important reason for continued operation, but it is not the only reason. At the time of the WTC-Pentagon horror, Amtrak did provide travel arrangements for important individuals for defense and security when, because of all commercial air being grounded, the alternatives would have been costly separate miliary transport for each individaul. A tourist is by far best served by LDTs where one can meet the natives as well as see the country. The Empire Builder is of course a special case with its serving some communities that would otherwise be isolated for much of winter.
But the elderly and handicapped is the most important.
daveklepper The elderly and handicapped that woulc be serverely impacted by the loss of the LDPTs may be a small fraction of the total population, but such deprivation still is cruelty.
The elderly and handicapped that woulc be serverely impacted by the loss of the LDPTs may be a small fraction of the total population, but such deprivation still is cruelty.
It doesn't sound like Amtrak wants them on board, but the airlines will take them!
https://www.krqe.com/news/albuquerque-metro/82-year-old-booted-from-amtrak-train-gets-a-helping-hand-from-apd-officers/
"The officers said Amtrak staff told them the 82-year-old was “unfit for travel,” and that she was continuously asking for help getting up from her seat to use the restroom."
"The officers reached out to Hopeworks, a non-profit in Albuquerque, which helped collect enough money to buy her a flight the same day."
An "expensive model collector"
I will write Richard Anderson. We do not know the full story. If the -year-old normally uses a wheel chair, I believe Amtrak's policy is that she would only travel with a comopanion. If the wheelchair was checked baggage and she lied about its use, Amtrak might have a case. Or perhaps she was abusive when she did not get help precisely when whe wanned it. Were there any passengers who volunteered to help her?
I've been intending to write Richard Anderson for some time, and this incident galvanizes me into action. The letter should:
Open on a positive note, pointing out the new markets, particularly Colonial Williamsburg, that can be tapped by the new NEC sleeper service.
Amtrak in the hospitality business, not just transportation
Main purpose of long-distance trains, and that present youngsters will become oldsters, and there will be more of them.
Other purposes of long distance trains.
PTC for track just used by the Chief each way a terrible waste of money and why. (For safety, better spend the money on more grade-crossing upgrades or elimination)
Grab any still usable AEM-7 available and preserve it as Sunnyside's switcher. Far less expensive than trying to quietly ventilate an underground yard with diesel switchers.
Railroading is a geographically specific industry, not like airlines.
Anyone wish to suggest additions?
I suggest you get hold of the foundational legislation for Amtrak. The mission is transportation for people, not "hospitality" for a small segment of our population who want to take a one off land cruise. Most seniors I know, including moi, do not consider using Amtrak except for under five hour journeys.
daveklepperAnyone wish to suggest additions?
daveklepper I will write Richard Anderson. We do not know the full story.
I was struck by the line about Amtrak crews not rendering personal assistance to passengers. And by the invocation of 'policy' as an excuse to dump Alice and her luggage on the platform of a strange city and take off ... leaving the Albuquerque police, highly miffed if the story is accurate, holding the bag, as it were.
Perhaps the best part is that, after dropping her in a strange city without further assistance, Amtrak is only returning PART of her fare -- doubtless basing this on having performed 'transportation service' to get her that far.
I suspect Anderson's hands are somewhat tied here ... there's an Amtrak attendant's side of this story, too, and I can't see him throwing them under the bus to score sympathy points when he has to deal with them long-term, in ways that I expect will highly involve unanticipated attrition.
What is needed instead may be Congressional legislation that mandates changes in some of the Amtrak procedures, specifically involving forced 'detraining' as an option for passengers crews don't like.
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