I am in my late 70s and have been partial to passenger trains since I was born. Growing up, my parents didn't own a car nor had driver licenses. We went everywhere by train. Since I traveled so often by train, I received my own system pass on the PRR when I was 12. Usually, my wife and I take three to four long distance Amtrak trips annually. Since we live several hours west of Washington, DC, this means taking the Capitol Limited to Chicago. Because we are in our late 70s, we have been travelling in the sleepers. With Amtrak eliminating senior discounts for sleepers, I have been spending more money for our tickets or using more reward points. Last year, I was suprised when I was on the Amtrak webpage and the points for a westcoast trip went up 15,000 points. I talked to the Amtrak Guest Rewards and was advised the the higher points for the trip I was planning wouldn't go lower. I waited three days and was able to book the trip for the original lower points. On our January trip to California, we founld trash in our sleeper waste basket and the night light didn't work. Also, the heater controls for the room weren't working. In July, we went on Amtrak to Colorado. At Cumberland, the Conductor walked up to us to check our tickets. His tie was loose with the knot hanging just above his belt buckel. Also, some of the buttons on his shirt weren't fastened. Amtrak didn't have the box meal that we requested. While neither my wife or I are fussy eaters, we ended up throwing away about half of our meal. For breakfast the next morning, we were not able to get any milk to drink. On the California Zephyr, the sleeping car attendant locked the upper bathroom door when he went to bed so we were not able to use this restrooms until he unlocked it around 6:30 AM the following morning. We had to use the restrooms on the lower level multiple times during the trip and it created additional pain in her right knee and my left hip having to use the stairway. Also, the sleeper were were in was extremely rough riding and was bouncing us around so much that neither of us were able to get a good nights sleep. On the trip to Denver, we had to wait over 30 minutes for our breakfast meal to be served. On the return trip, we ate less than 50% of the boxed meal we received for dinner on the Capitol Limited. My wife and I felt like the coach passengers, eventhough they had to pay for their food, were being fed better than the sleeping passengers. Our next trip was to Seattle in September. Again, we didn't enjoy the boxed meals we received on the Capitol Limited. On the Empire Builder, we started to get sick from the septic smell from the upstairs restroom. Fortunately, the sleeping car attendent was able to move us to another car along with some of the other sleeping car passengers. Since Amtrak has stopped issuing timetables and route guides, it is harder for us to figure out were the train is and how late it is running. On our Denver trip, Amtrak's app on our cell phone didn't have any projected times for the trains arrival at Denver. After our January, 2019 trip to California, my wife and I have decided to make adjustments in our travel plans to minimize trips on Amtrak. Also, I have switched to another credit card since the Amtrak rewards card doesn't provide the rewards benefits that it use to provide. Earlier this year, a friend of ours took an Amtrak Vacation to the National Parks. On one leg of her trip, the dining car was taken out of service and the sleeping car passengers were treated to pizza. After four months, Amtrak finially reimbursed her some money since they were unable to provide proper meals on this leg of her Amtrak trip.
My experiences are roughly parallel to those of Frank and we are probably about the same age. Our connecting train has been the Lake Shore from Syracuse/Chicago to points west. When the cold bag meals were first stared, we thought that it was obivious that no one in their right mind would eat that stuff while paying for sleeping accomodations and the "experiment" would shortly be over: not so. We have now been flying to Denver and are about to book another flight only because the train under the current management is untenable. Quite a sad state of affairs when the senior population which controls roughly 75% of the US disposable income and loves to travel is now being ignored as a market by a bunch of clowns who cannot read demographic tables. The lack of long term planning in infrastructure/transportation is unique to the US as it takes a back seat to immediate gratfication and or profit or lower cost. The public be damned.
As I have commented in another thread. Anderson was not brought to Amtrak to improve and save it, he was brought to the position to kill Amtrak. The death by thousands of cuts - cuts in service, cuts in personnel, cuts in maintenance, cuts in equipment, cuts in routes etc. etc. etc.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Unfortunately, these incidents are becoming less and less isolated. People who take Amtrak for 4 hundred miles or more are looking for something different beyond larger than airline seats. They want amenities and a positive experience, otherwise most will fly. It's faster and often cheaper. Mr. Anderson must think he's still running an airline.
I have noticed a decline in maintenence on the sleepers but it predates Mr. Andersons arrival.
The Septic Smell is caused because they are not emptying the retention tanks, I ran into that on the Texas Eagle once and asked the crew and I was told the train skipped the servicing for the latrines in San Antonio to make up time because it was late. It stunk horribly all the way to St. Louis luckily my compartment was at the end of the car and I only faintly smelled it but those across from that restroom.........horrible. No secret that Amtrak operational management is fairly stupid as a general rule with a few exceptions here and there.
Amtrak's crrent problems probably have been some time in the making. I know a few Amtrak employees who have retired in the lst 10 or so years and they gave me the impression they usually considered their replacements as not that dynamic.
alphas I know a few Amtrak employees who have retired in the lst 10 or so years and they gave me the impression they usually considered their replacements as not that dynamic.
And the old guys that retired when they hired on thought they were no good either. And the older guys that retired before those old guys hired on thought they were worthless as well.
Been going on since the dawn of time.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmann alphas I know a few Amtrak employees who have retired in the lst 10 or so years and they gave me the impression they usually considered their replacements as not that dynamic. And the old guys that retired when they hired on thought they were no good either. And the older guys that retired before those old guys hired on thought they were worthless as well. Been going on since the dawn of time.
Such is human nature - Nobody is ever as good as I pictured myself being! Damn kids don't know anything.
BaltACDSuch is human nature - Nobody is ever as good as I pictured myself being! Damn kids don't know anything.
"Ugg invented wheel. Ugg Junior stupid. He never could have invented wheel!"
zugmann BaltACD Such is human nature - Nobody is ever as good as I pictured myself being! Damn kids don't know anything. "Ugg invented wheel. Ugg Junior stupid. He never could have invented wheel!"
BaltACD Such is human nature - Nobody is ever as good as I pictured myself being! Damn kids don't know anything.
"Pop, that's just a log on it's side..."
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
CMStPnP I have noticed a decline in maintenence on the sleepers but it predates Mr. Andersons arrival. The Septic Smell is caused because they are not emptying the retention tanks, I ran into that on the Texas Eagle once and asked the crew and I was told the train skipped the servicing for the latrines in San Antonio to make up time because it was late. It stunk horribly all the way to St. Louis luckily my compartment was at the end of the car and I only faintly smelled it but those across from that restroom.........horrible. No secret that Amtrak operational management is fairly stupid as a general rule with a few exceptions here and there.
In any business, managers get acceptable performance only in areas they measure or monitor. Schedule departures can be monitored from Washington, adequate turn around maintenance not so much.
oltmannd"Pop, that's just a log on its side..."
No. "Pop, why bother slicing off pieces and boring a hole just to make fire when driving when I can clearly see that plain old logs on their sides do the job just fine..."
I see today's #48 is now figured to be 2 hours late into NYP at 8:24 PM.
Please try to imagine the people aboard this train, who have had nothing to eat since a lousy and cold boxed meal of dubious quality (let alone allow for much of a choice) about 8 hours earlier. How "hangry" would you be upon arrival at NYP at 8:30 in the evening?
I imagine these, my fellow countrymen and passengers, are invoking the Name of the Lord and taking an oath before the same, rather like Scarlett O"Hara, that " as God is my witness, I'll never take Amtrak again."
As Balt has cogently pointed out, isn't is obvious that Mr. Propellerhead has been hired by the Amtrak board to kill the LD business, if not the whole she-bang?
It's been said that an army marches on its stomach; why not envision paying customers on a long distance train trip riding on their stomachs? To take some liberties with a well-known lyric from Ira Gershwin, "Who would ask for anytime more?"
NKP guy"Who would ask for anytime more?"
I was planning to take the Silver Meteor to Jacksonville this winter but I guess I'll fly, if these entries are anything to go by. Oh well.
Here is the Silver Meteor menu: https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/menus/routes/Silver-Meteor-Dining-Car-0916.pdf
It still looks fairly decent to me.
Johnny
I should have added that the unsatisfactory (to me) menus are, so far, only on the Capitol Limited and Lakeshore Limited. The Silver Star does not have a real menu, only a list of what could possibly be called "snacks."
[quote user="runnerdude48"]I think the lyric goes "Who could ask for anything more?"
Of course, you're right about the original lyric. I was being too clever by half, as the Brits would say, trying to make my point.
yuk any health and safety issues?
alpinemikeyuk any health and safety issues?
Typically they do a fairly good job of keeping the restrooms clean, sometimes not so much but there are enough restrooms on a sleeper that you can always find one that is clean. The upper level single restroom sometimes gets nasty fast if there are kids on the second level. However, I have noticed one item Amtrak reservations does smart is isolate the kids / families in one section of the sleeping car.......not sure how they do that but never have I been next to a comparment of kids nor a family of kids. Could be price that is the limiting factor.
Meals are generally OK though I would never give Amtrak food more than three stars. Diner trains and the Rocky Mountaineer in Canada both much better with food and food presentation for that matter. Amtrak food presentation is similar to a chow hall in the Army. Rocky Mountaineer you'll get caviar. Amtrak your very lucky to see something that should be common like whipped creme.
Service on the dining car is usually horrible and watching them serve meals is like a bad laurel and hardy skit. Sometimes only on plate to a table at a time. Never do they tray the plates like a restaurant. If your in Sleeper and you order anything like wine or beer that you have to pay for. Your going to be one of the last to leave the dining car seating time.
They handle safety pretty well.
CMStPnP alpinemike yuk any health and safety issues? Typically they do a fairly good job of keeping the restrooms clean, sometimes not so much but there are enough restrooms on a sleeper that you can always find one that is clean. The upper level single restroom sometimes gets nasty fast if there are kids on the second level. However, I have noticed one item Amtrak reservations does smart is isolate the kids / families in one section of the sleeping car.......not sure how they do that but never have I been next to a comparment of kids nor a family of kids. Could be price that is the limiting factor. Meals are generally OK though I would never give Amtrak food more than three stars. Diner trains and the Rocky Mountaineer in Canada both much better with food and food presentation for that matter. Amtrak food presentation is similar to a chow hall in the Army. Rocky Mountaineer you'll get caviar. Amtrak your very lucky to see something that should be common like whipped creme. Service on the dining car is usually horrible and watching them serve meals is like a bad laurel and hardy skit. Sometimes only on plate to a table at a time. Never do they tray the plates like a restaurant. If your in Sleeper and you order anything like wine or beer that you have to pay for. Your going to be one of the last to leave the dining car seating time. They handle safety pretty well.
alpinemike yuk any health and safety issues?
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
Deggesty How does Amtrak segregate families with children. Actually, the Family Bedroom is not fully segregated from the rooms of other passengers. It is at one end of the lower level, beyond the four roomettes that are down there. The shower and three restrooms are at the other end, and the accessible room is beyond the restrooms.
The situation you describe could be alleviated in any future sleeper designs by the simple expedient of having each room in the car equipped with a toilet, as was the norm until the misguided Superliners came into use.
A private toilet is a civilized thing for those who choose to pay very expensive fares in order to ride a passenger train that is doubtlessly late and certainly without a dining car, as the term is traditionally understood. Such customers don't relish the idea of using increasingly-messy (or filthy) public toilets "downstairs" or at the end of the car, as the new Viewliners threaten to be .
Gentlemen, have you ever asked your own wives or daughters if they'd prefer a toilet available to a carload of passengers, or one in their own room? Have you? I have and I know the answer; so do you.
When I researched why new Viewliners will not have toilets in the roomettes, the answer seemed to be: because it's cheaper. No other reason. After all, it's not like this hasn't been done before.
So here is where we are in late 2018 as far as Amtrak LD travel: No dining car. No in-room toilets for First Class customers in roomettes. No consideration whatsoever about the needs or desires of female passengers. No on-time performance of any LD train that's worth believing in. No amenities. Simply put: More and more...no nothin'.
No company cuts its way to profitability.
NKP guy No company cuts its way to profitability.
They do in the minds of Wall Street, Legislators and idiots.
BaltACD NKP guy No company cuts its way to profitability. They do in the minds of Wall Street, Legislators and idiots.
Most successful companies shed business lines, products, services, etc. that are not profitable. Or scale them back. In some cases they may be profitable, but not as profitable as alternative investments, e.g. sell a profitable business unit for a more profitable business.
Many years ago, I was shocked to learn that PepsiCo had sold Wilson Sporting Goods. Why I asked? Wilson was profitable. It generated a reasonable return for PepsiCo. But PepsiCo had a better alternative for its resources, and it was repositioning them. GE is doing the same thing. Hundreds of companies do it every year.
If Amtrak’s executives were allowed to manage Amtrak like the business it is supposed to be, it would cut the long-distance trains in a heartbeat. If it were not hobbled by the long-distance train operating losses, it would have had an operating profit of $374 million in 2017. That is cutting its way to profitability, at least from an operating perspective.
If I may repeat myself (and others here): No LD trains = No Amtrak.
What Congressperson from outside the NEC could possibly support ending service to his or her state? And why?
Amtrak was meant to be a national asset, not one that offers only Boston to Richmond day trains.
PJS1 No company cuts its way to profitability. If Amtrak’s executives were allowed to manage Amtrak like the business it is supposed to be, it would cut the long-distance trains in a heartbeat. If it were not hobbled by the long-distance train operating losses, it would have had an operating profit of $374 million in 2017. That is cutting its way to profitability, at least from an operating perspective.
No company cuts its way to profitability. If Amtrak’s executives were allowed to manage Amtrak like the business it is supposed to be, it would cut the long-distance trains in a heartbeat. If it were not hobbled by the long-distance train operating losses, it would have had an operating profit of $374 million in 2017. That is cutting its way to profitability, at least from an operating perspective.
PJS1If Amtrak’s executives were allowed to manage Amtrak like the business it is supposed to be, it would cut the long-distance trains in a heartbeat. If it were not hobbled by the long-distance train operating losses, it would have had an operating profit of $374 million in 2017. That is cutting its way to profitability, at least from an operating perspective.
It would become a Real Estate company. Sell everything owned, declare the profit and go out of business.
BaltACD It would become a Real Estate company. Sell everything owned, declare the profit and go out of business.
blue streak 1 We are not accountants but how in the world will the overhead now allocated to LD trains be eliminated ? It is more likely that unless congress did not reduce its appropriations that Amtrak would loose money on what remaining operations it maintained ? Congress maintain the same subsidy ? Fat chance.
The biggest discontinuance challenge would be the severance provisions for the long-distance operating employees. Their salaries, wages, and benefits account for approximately 65 percent of the long-distance train operating expenses. So, for the first year or two after discontinuance, the severance payments could cause Amtrak's expenses to increase significantly, but in time these too would be eliminated.
No one knows what would happen to the subsidies if the long-distance trains were dropped. The argument that Congressional support for what remained would dry up is untested.
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