runnerdude48 And don't forget parking. If you drive to New York City and stay in a hotel plan on paying anywhere from $55 to $75 per night for parking.
And don't forget parking. If you drive to New York City and stay in a hotel plan on paying anywhere from $55 to $75 per night for parking.
I lived in NYC for eight years. Even before the Acela, for people in Manhattan traveling to center city Philadelphia or Washington the train was the better option than driving, especially for one person. But!
For six of the eight years I lived in NYC I called Bay Ridge, Brooklyn home. Although true Brooklynites not like to admit it, Brooklyn is a NYC borough. I could jump in the car, cut across Staten Island, and be nearly to Philadelphia before I could have gotten to Penn Station. Moreover, most times I was headed to a Philly or a Washington suburb, where parking was usually free.
Contrary to what most New Yorkers believe, the NEC is an American anomaly. Most of America does not resemble the NEC. And for most Americans, driving or flying is a better choice than taking the train.
Cars and planes won out over trains for a good reason. They are better technologies. Trains are a good choice in relatively short, high density corridors, like the NEC, LAX to San Diego, etc.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
And don't forget parking. If you drive to New York City and stay in a hotel plan on paying anywhere from $55 to $75 per night for parking. That is with no in and out privileges. Other cities are almost as bad or just about the same. Plus they tack on taxes. About 19% in New York. If you can take advantage of one of Amtrak fares you can save quite abit. I noted a 3 day fare sale offering $39 one way fare from Boston to New York on regional trains. That's $78 round trip, about the same price as one night to park in the hotel garage. Your car is definitely more convenient but for that price difference I think I can handle traveling on Amtrak's schedule.
PJS1 This.....Today's Eagles in both direction are approaching 4 hours late. One cannot expect passengers to put up with this. I love trains, but I would not subject myself or friends waiting 3-4 hours late trains. blue streak 1 Here is a OIG report deliniating why Amtrak is loosing LD riders. Have not found time to read but hope some persons will give their ideas. Here is one reason ridership on the Texas Eagle is likely to decline. Tonight it is reported to be 5 hrs, 38 minutes late into San Antonio. Last night it was 2 hrs late. And this is with a hour a schedule padding between Austin and San Antonio. It reported to be 6 hrs, 21 minutes late into Austin this evening. Or should I say tomorrow morning. Last night it was 2 hrs, 30 minutes late. If Amtrak's management had a plan to run off long distance passengers, this would be ideal.
This.....Today's Eagles in both direction are approaching 4 hours late. One cannot expect passengers to put up with this. I love trains, but I would not subject myself or friends waiting 3-4 hours late trains.
blue streak 1 Here is a OIG report deliniating why Amtrak is loosing LD riders. Have not found time to read but hope some persons will give their ideas.
Here is a OIG report deliniating why Amtrak is loosing LD riders. Have not found time to read but hope some persons will give their ideas.
Here is one reason ridership on the Texas Eagle is likely to decline. Tonight it is reported to be 5 hrs, 38 minutes late into San Antonio. Last night it was 2 hrs late. And this is with a hour a schedule padding between Austin and San Antonio.
It reported to be 6 hrs, 21 minutes late into Austin this evening. Or should I say tomorrow morning. Last night it was 2 hrs, 30 minutes late.
If Amtrak's management had a plan to run off long distance passengers, this would be ideal.
In addition to the simple operating costs of a car between DC, NYC and Boston - you have to add in TOLLS. I-95 operates over multiple toll facilities - Maryland Turnpike, Deleware Turnpike as well as various bridges and tunnels.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
VOLKER LANDWEHR With Acela's 2:58 hours Amtrak should be time competetive with bus ...... Prices are the problem. It is difficult to compete with less than $20. Private cars have the advantage when you go somewhere other than midtown. I don't know the costs for driving in the USA and Amtrak's fare structure good enough to make comparison. Here in Germany train and car are about equal for one person when paying full price. More people make cars more economical. With the best DB budget price even a car with 4 passengers can't compete. We have the same competetion by bus. I think Acela Express is more for business travellers. Except Amtrak offers heavily discounted fares that are attractive for tourists with the disadvanteges of far ahead booking, reservation for a specific train etc.Regards, Volker
Private cars have the advantage when you go somewhere other than midtown.
I don't know the costs for driving in the USA and Amtrak's fare structure good enough to make comparison.
Here in Germany train and car are about equal for one person when paying full price. More people make cars more economical. With the best DB budget price even a car with 4 passengers can't compete. We have the same competetion by bus.
I think Acela Express is more for business travellers. Except Amtrak offers heavily discounted fares that are attractive for tourists with the disadvanteges of far ahead booking, reservation for a specific train etc.Regards, Volker
I have ridden the Acela between New York and Washington three times. Most of the people in my car appeared to be business people or high level government officials. On each of the three trips the person sitting next to me was a business person or lawyer that was traveling on business and, therefore, probably was on expense account.
blue streak 1Since NYPS <> WASH is under Acela 3 hours that may be why the Acelas outshine Airlines. Now the question is and will be hard to answer. If NEC can get to 2 hours will that impact auto and bus travel.
With Acela's 2:58 hours Amtrak should be time competetive with bus (Megabus, between 4:15 and 5:20 hours according to schedule, mostly 4:15) already. Prices are the problem. It is difficult to compete with less than $20.
BaltACD Considering the traffic situation on I-95 between DC and Richmond - The services that the State of Virginia has added have out performed their early traffic projections. I don't think you can consider DC to Richmond a LD service. That's an example of an available passenger train market. The big problem for Amtrak is the much longer train ride, especially the over night trips.
Considering the traffic situation on I-95 between DC and Richmond - The services that the State of Virginia has added have out performed their early traffic projections.
Backshop Amtrak is missing the most obvious thing when they say that they want to court the 18-34 business traveler group. LD train travel is a nonstarter for business travel. Time is money in business. Anything over 250 miles and you're on a plane. Trains are for leisure travel.
Amtrak is missing the most obvious thing when they say that they want to court the 18-34 business traveler group. LD train travel is a nonstarter for business travel. Time is money in business. Anything over 250 miles and you're on a plane. Trains are for leisure travel.
From talking to fellow senior citizens one reason is the cost of a sleeper vs. the cost of Southwest Airline [or similar] senior fare that gets you there in just a few hours. [Example: 2 of us are flying non-stop to Ft. Lauderdale and back for $405 with just over 2 hours flying each way. I can't drive it for that amount counting the 2 motel nights in a round trip]. And they don't want to be spending hours and hours sitting and trying to sleep in coaches. Another consideration is that those who are scared to fly is a very small number that is getting less and less as the years pass.
It used to be the choice for those who had to watch the money was between bus or rail. Nowadays its a choice beteen those 2 and the discount airlines.
BaltACDUnions and their members are no where near a dumb as management and the OIG give them credit for being.
The Talgo tragedy on the west coast when viewed superficially is train crew (union) error. A second look, though, immediately reveals that a fundamental underlying factor is the seriously deficient amount of route familiarization allowed by management. That is likely from pressure passed down (implicitly) through several levels of the hierachy. As Balt indicates, when safety programs are mostly lip service there is little benefit to participating.
Unions are not completely innocent; solving the crew fatigue issue will require both management and union to compromise. That will probably have financial effects on both. As a result nothing of consequence is done.
BaltACD charlie hebdo BaltACD charlie hebdo The NTSB reported that the unions representing the two employees killed in the 2016 accident in Chester, Pennsylvania, had opted out of the company’s safety programs, which are negotiated as part of employee collective bargaining agreements.4 The NTSB concluded that this situation undermined the effectiveness of the company’s safety efforts." Unions opt out of company safety programs when the Unions have determined that the 'safety program' is only a pair of words. Unions present genuine safety problems and the company does nothing about them - on a consistant and continuing basis. When Unions opt out of such programs the term 'Safety Program' is a sham. Unions and their members are no where near a dumb as management and the OIG give them credit for being. The NTSB also concurred. Are they also part of a conspiracy against the unions? In reading NTSB reports over the years - they have become progressively more 'political' in their findings as the years have progressed. They have done a reasonable job of fact finding, however their recommendations have been more and more political statements.
charlie hebdo BaltACD charlie hebdo The NTSB reported that the unions representing the two employees killed in the 2016 accident in Chester, Pennsylvania, had opted out of the company’s safety programs, which are negotiated as part of employee collective bargaining agreements.4 The NTSB concluded that this situation undermined the effectiveness of the company’s safety efforts." Unions opt out of company safety programs when the Unions have determined that the 'safety program' is only a pair of words. Unions present genuine safety problems and the company does nothing about them - on a consistant and continuing basis. When Unions opt out of such programs the term 'Safety Program' is a sham. Unions and their members are no where near a dumb as management and the OIG give them credit for being. The NTSB also concurred. Are they also part of a conspiracy against the unions?
BaltACD charlie hebdo The NTSB reported that the unions representing the two employees killed in the 2016 accident in Chester, Pennsylvania, had opted out of the company’s safety programs, which are negotiated as part of employee collective bargaining agreements.4 The NTSB concluded that this situation undermined the effectiveness of the company’s safety efforts." Unions opt out of company safety programs when the Unions have determined that the 'safety program' is only a pair of words. Unions present genuine safety problems and the company does nothing about them - on a consistant and continuing basis. When Unions opt out of such programs the term 'Safety Program' is a sham. Unions and their members are no where near a dumb as management and the OIG give them credit for being.
charlie hebdo The NTSB reported that the unions representing the two employees killed in the 2016 accident in Chester, Pennsylvania, had opted out of the company’s safety programs, which are negotiated as part of employee collective bargaining agreements.4 The NTSB concluded that this situation undermined the effectiveness of the company’s safety efforts."
Unions opt out of company safety programs when the Unions have determined that the 'safety program' is only a pair of words. Unions present genuine safety problems and the company does nothing about them - on a consistant and continuing basis. When Unions opt out of such programs the term 'Safety Program' is a sham.
Unions and their members are no where near a dumb as management and the OIG give them credit for being.
The NTSB also concurred. Are they also part of a conspiracy against the unions?
In reading NTSB reports over the years - they have become progressively more 'political' in their findings as the years have progressed. They have done a reasonable job of fact finding, however their recommendations have been more and more political statements.
PTC and inward-facing cameras will solve everything!
In other news, Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
charlie hebdoThe NTSB also concurred. Are they also part of a conspiracy against the unions?
Nah, the NTSB 'rail' side is just inept; they are obsessed with making PTC the cure-all for every deficiency.
OTOH I have a lot of respect for the 'air' side, having worked in aerospace and studiously read their report summaries in Aviation Week. The Smithsonian channel program 'Air Disasters' seems to be inspired by the latter.
Now back to topic ....
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Safety record and poor on-time performance are two areas addresed for declining LD ridership. The third is shifting demographics."Meeting the needs of younger riders. The company is also attempting to increase ridership in the face of changing demographics. In FY 2017, the company’s ridership was heavily skewed toward older riders. But company research on demographic trends shows that, within 5 years, consumers who are 18 to 34 years old will account for approximately half of all business travel. Meanwhile, business travel by older passengers is expected to drop sharply. Moreover, executives told us that younger passengers do not have the same nostalgia for trains and may not be as interested in long-distance trains as a mode of travel. To grow ridership, particularly on long-distance routes, the company’s service will need to evolve to appeal to this new generation of passengers by accommodating their preferences, according to company officials. For example, company research indicates that younger passengers have a higher desire for comfort and choice during their journeys. Research also indicates that younger travelers generally want fast, accessible, and reliable technology. This includes the ability to use mobile devices to book travel and access to high-speed internet connections onboard. In response, the company recently revamped its mobile booking app and is trying to improve its Wi-Fi service on the NEC. Other initiatives to meet evolving customer demands include offering more options for where and how passengers dine on long-distance trains, and refreshing the food options."
There's a huge difference in agreeing with what a safety program is supposed to be (as the refulators see) and how that program is actually implemented (what the people in the trenches see). A matter of perspective. I've seen safety programs completely destroyed, corrupted, and turned into something else entirely.
*please pardon the delay due to moderation.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
charlie hebdoThe NTSB reported that the unions representing the two employees killed in the 2016 accident in Chester, Pennsylvania, had opted out of the company’s safety programs, which are negotiated as part of employee collective bargaining agreements.4 The NTSB concluded that this situation undermined the effectiveness of the company’s safety efforts."
Blue Streak: Thanks for posting this. In general, it well defines the issues. I admit to not having read it thoroughly, skimming it and skipping when sentences seemed to go on about the obvious, such as details where crews conversing with customers did not always meet the needs of those customers. I think, however, that the report failed to emphasis the importance of lack of freigiht-train track capacity in delays to passenger trains, giving greater emphasis to dispatcher decisions. I don't believe this emphpasis reflects the truth. And certainly, the truly miserable on-time performance of long-distance trains, correctly analyzed as to effect in the report, is a major reason for loss of business.
Also, there continues a seeming assumption, that passenger service can at least break-even if not show a profit.
Other than that, a truly terrific report.
blue streak 1 Here is a OIG report deliniating why Amtrak is loosing LD riders. Have not found time to read but hope some persons will give their ideas . https://amtrakoig.gov/sites/default/files/reports/OIG-SP-2018-011%20Management%20Challenges%20FY2019%20and%202020.pdf
Here is a OIG report deliniating why Amtrak is loosing LD riders. Have not found time to read but hope some persons will give their ideas .
https://amtrakoig.gov/sites/default/files/reports/OIG-SP-2018-011%20Management%20Challenges%20FY2019%20and%202020.pdf
The report is about a lot more important matters than losing LD ridership. For example, on the safety side: "The company has publicly acknowledged that implementing a safety management system is a significant corporate undertaking, and the CSO told us that it would take five years to make an impact. However, the company could encounter challenges sustaining program implementation over the long term, as it has with other safety initiatives. For example, adoption of the system by union employees and their representatives could be a significant challenge to full implementation. The NTSB reported that the unions representing the two employees killed in the 2016 accident in Chester, Pennsylvania, had opted out of the company’s safety programs, which are negotiated as part of employee collective bargaining agreements.4 The NTSB concluded that this situation undermined the effectiveness of the company’s safety efforts."
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