As you know, the New York City Transit Authority regularly carries passengers on special occasions on several nostalgia trains. The most unusual is a three=car wood gate-car train that is only for display and for limited assenger operation on former BMT open-air lines, not in subways. Then there is the classic "B-type" train, New York's orginal 10-foot-wide cars, mainstay of the BMT lines. from 1916 to 1957. A four or five-car IRT standard Low-V cars, similar to the originals of 1904 but later, dating from just before WWI, is another. The three D-type BMT three-section four-truck articulated cars are still another. The R-1 = R-9, wiht occasional addition of 1575 a rebult R-9 to be prototype for the R-10's is still another, typical IND equipment, 1931-1967. The train of many colors, the immediate post-WWII and on equiment for the A-Divison, former IRTlines, all cars similar structurally and operstionally, but representinga all the different paint schemes used, the red-birds, and blue and grey of the R-12's. Deep maroon with gold or yeelow stripes, daark green. Finally there is the train of many metals, painted steel, stainless steel, representing several Post=WWII B-Division equipent. Any and all of these trains occssinally carry passengers.
I think Amtrak should have a nostalgia train and could earn its keep. During periods of low travel on specific long distance routes that can accomodate dome cars, it would make suprise appearances, posted only two days in advance, replacing the normal Superliner or Horizon-Amfleet train on the particular day(s). People having already reserved space would be commodated by equivalent accomodations. People who learn about the operastion and wish to enjoy nostalgia would be able to make reservations at premium price.
In my mind it would be an all-stainless-steel exterior train, with an ex-Zephyr dome-obs, a two-unit ex Sante-Fe diner with Toirquise Room, the existing Amtrak full-length dome, and matching sleepers and leg-rest coaches. My favorite choice of diesel power would Bennet Levin's Pennsy E-8s. No more than once a month on any particular route, and always based out of Chicago.
Even though nearly all or all of the passenger equipment will have originated from Western railroads, my dream Amtrak nostalgia train would have Tuscan red letterboards with Amtrak in gold lettering to comopliment the Levine E-8s. But definitelyl not sll-Tuscan red equipment, since stainless steel was far more typical.
daveklepper But definitelyl not sll-Tuscan red equipment, since stainless steel was far more typical.
If I think of the Pennsy and its Fleet of Modernism, I think of a Broadway in Tuscan and gold (or deluxe gold)
To me, An Amtrak "Nostalgic Train" would be an F40PH, P40 in Phase III or a Surfliner F59PHI with a Budd 73' Baggage in Phase 4 Scheme and 6 Amfleets also in Phase III with a NPCU on the tail. That is what I remember seeing in Irvine Train Station from 1996 - 2001. That I think would be a real throwback!
Around 2000-2001 is when the amfleets were sent back east and the new Bilevel Surfliners took over.
A real nolsalgia train uses equipment and has the ambiance of the best days of passenger railroading in the USA, which is not the Amfleet FP40 era. You did not have fine dining and a Turquoise room stoping at your Irvine station when you were a youngster. And it is too bad you did not ride the Rio Greande Zephyr, which was running at the time, and was even a throwback at the time, as it would be today.
I'll stick with a pair of Bennt Levin's E-8 in full Tuscan Red five stripes, with all silver fluted Budd and matching equipment representing the best of the West with the Tuscan red letterboards to represent the best of the East and match the power.
But when you are a billiniaire, go build your train. When (if?) I get my billian, I'll build mine (with Mr . Levine's cooperation, i hope).
Guys, his name is LEVIN. Bennett Levin. Like Ira Levin.
The problem is exacerbated by Mr. Klepper not being able to edit his prior posts. Since Mr. Levin has been known to read threads here, I think it's important to fix the spelling going forward.
Problem is that 'Tuscan red letterboards' represent absolutely nothing 'historical' about Amtrak in the East, no matter how splendid a heritage statement (or evocation of perhaps the 'best of the East' in stainless fluted Budd trains) they may be for the older era that Mr. Klepper is attempting to evoke. It's important to distinguish what sort of 'nostalgia' is involved here -- almost by definition nothing that would qualify as having 'the ambiance of the best days of passenger railroading' would come even close to paying its way in the current structure and administration of Amtrak, so it's not just the expenditure to build it, it's the millions thrown down every year to make it run remotely as expected. And of course it's not the job of a 'national' (or even 'quasi-public' as it was originally spun) corporation to subsidize passenger nostalgia, and likely no one living has the combination of deep pockets and political savvy needed to operate a nostalgia train on the required conditions to satisfy current practical Amtrak requirements.
1. I will edit my posts;. I have the use of the edit button and will use it. Thanks.
2. I think all the points you have raised are good ones. I don't think nostalgia for early Amtrak makes sense in any case. The best days of North American pasenger railroading were well before the start of Amtrak. But your other ponts ahout the practicallity of the idea are correct. But I can dream.
3. Nostalgia is being beautifully served by the UP steam program, with proper passenger equip;ment included, and by the various museum and tourist operations. Long may they all continue.
The E-8's must have Mars lights, too.
I'd like to see an "extra fare" train tried on the NEC (Nyork-DC) using some of Ed Ellis' daytime equipment or maybe several rail baron cars. More a "grand conveyance" than an Acela. Something that would appeal to Foodie types among others. Make it a skunkworks project, separate from the standard workings. If it were truly profitable, maybe it would be less subject to criticism.
I think most people just want a relateively clean train with outlets and decent wifi.
We can talk about nostaliga, but we're at the tail end of people that actually can remember the grand luxury trains of old.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Ahem, nobody "remembers" Colonial Williamsburg, but it still is a major attaction. The food analogy works there also, by the way. Just thinking about Williamsburg reminds me that I enjoy good food.
Now rebuild a genuine GG1 with recrifiers and all solid-state control to run off all the different power schemes now used on the NEC, add the silver Budd coaches, diner, parlors and obs, with the Tuscan red letterboards, and there is a nostalgia train for the corridor that may eventually turn a profit. Everything would have to be really first-class, including the meals.
Maybe don't need the GG!, at least initially. Have an engine change at Newark for a NY - Washington run and use the E-8s south of Newark.
daveklepperAhem, nobody "remembers" Colonial Williamsburg, but it still is a major attaction. The food analogy works there also, by the way. Just thinking about Williamsburg reminds me that I enjoy good food.
Probably not a great example to use.
https://pilotonline.com/business/consumer/article_f94e25ed-5bb5-527c-a108-a2862ee3a1df.html
Apples and oranges. To most people under the age of 50, a silver and tuscan passenger train holds no special charm. In the NEC, people ride trains as basic transportation. Having your nostalgia train with dubious appeal only to only a small fraction of seniors is not a proper or worthwhile expenditure for a public passenger transportation company. In the UK and Germany, nostalgia (and Ostalgia) sells, with authentically restored trains. However, they are run by non-profit organizations and museums, not the national rail systems.
zugmann daveklepper Ahem, nobody "remembers" Colonial Williamsburg, but it still is a major attaction. The food analogy works there also, by the way. Just thinking about Williamsburg reminds me that I enjoy good food. Probably not a great example to use. https://pilotonline.com/business/consumer/article_f94e25ed-5bb5-527c-a108-a2862ee3a1df.html
daveklepper Ahem, nobody "remembers" Colonial Williamsburg, but it still is a major attaction. The food analogy works there also, by the way. Just thinking about Williamsburg reminds me that I enjoy good food.
Sounds like some level of 21st Century fleecing it taking place in a 18th Century setting.
Having attended Colonial Williamsburg in the 1970's I was impressed with their operation - have not been back in recent years.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
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