https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/amtrak-to-passengers-keep-out
Vending machines might be an upgrade....
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Where had the train come from, and was it late? When I take the Capitol, it comes in on time and has a three or four hour layover to turn it around and prep it. If it comes in three hours late, they have to scramble to get it turned. I don't know on the Crescent. Crew may have been working on the incoming leg, so the "only worked two hours" thing might not be a real assessment. We have no idea what went into the situation. They may be making the best of a bad situation, or they may be completely at fault. But one aggrieved diner's report isn't conclusive.
In my personal train experience, when the dining car is closed, as at night, you can still walk through it. Sleeping passengers need to do so to get to the lounge car, for example. So this situation suggests some sort of problem being dealt with.
It happens on some Amtrak trains I have been on. One or two lazy crew members is all it takes to ruin a trip. The last ride on the Capitol Limited myself and my guests were scolded for entering the Dining car before the Dining car made the announcement. Problem is the Chief made the announcement over the PA but it was not heard in the Dining car due to the crappy Amtrak over train PA system on some Superliner trains.
At a rest stop I was making conversation with the Sleeping Car attendent and she just turned her back on me and walked away. I can see if I was being over talkative but the conversation just started on my end and did not go over a min. Not so much as an "Excuse me I have to.....".
Then there is the whole deal of going the extra mile and keeping the restrooms clean which is really the attendents job not the publics job. With kids on board you have to monitor them more closely because not only do you have the 4 oz bladder you also have the aiming issues. Some attendents do a good job, others let the restrooms turn into a mini hell on wheels before they intervene if they intervene at all. Cleaning a restroom can seem degrading but everyone has to do it sometime in their life.
The Cresent originates in New York with a scheduled 1415 departure. I don't know if the diner and lounge are a part of the train from origin or are switched into the train at Washington for the scheduled 1830 departure, I suspect they WERE NOT switched into the train at Washington.
To support at 1415 departure I would anticipate that the service crew would have gone on duty somewhere around 1300 - maybe earlier. to ready their equipment for the trip. So it is possible that the lounge attendent could have been tired as she had been working close to 10 hours at the time she made the comment.
What Anderson's public statements and private policy actions are having upon Amtrak personnel at all level is unknown to me. I can't believe Amtrak employees are understanding Anderson's words and actions in a positive manner.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I rather doubt that the Crescent diner is turned in Washington. The last time I rode the train from Washington, I was able to eat dinner imerdiately--the last trip I took on #19, I boarded in Charlottesville--after the time the diner was presumable closed, and I was invited to eat dinner.
I have never ben scolded for appearing in the diner at the time that had been announced that it would be open. If I go to the diner when the crew is not fully ready to serve, I simply wait outside the door until it is obvious that everyone is ready.
On my last trip on #5, we were held several hours in western Nebraska on account of high winds. as a result, we arrived in Salt Lake CIty about 12 hours late, and I had an second breakfast on board. That morning, I went to the diner for breakfast about 6:30 Mountain Time, and was told that service started at 6:30 Pacific time--and I said that I should have asked the night before. The attendant was quite courteous.
Johnny
"A reliable rail industry source who wishes not to be named....." I am suspect of sources that refused to be named.
I had an entirely different experience on the Texas Eagle this week between San Antonio and Dallas. And in coach at that! The service in the lounge car and the dining car was good.
Whoops, you have no way to verify whether I am relatedly my experience accurately. And come to think about it, you don't know anything more about me than we know about a "reliable rail industry source.
Unless he works for Amtrak, how does he know the train was sold out? He would have to count all the seats on the train, as well as those in the sleepers, and then get an accurate count of the passengers for every leg. That would make anyone hungry.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
PJS1"A reliable rail industry source who wishes not to be named....." I am suspect of sources that refused to be named. I had an entirely different experience on the Texas Eagle this week between San Antonio and Dallas. And in coach at that! The service in the lounge car and the dining car was good. Whoops, you have no way to verify whether I am relatedly my experience accurately. And come to think about it, you don't know anything more about me than we know about a "reliable rail industry source. Unless he works for Amtrak, how does he know the train was sold out? He would have to count all the seats on the train, as well as those in the sleepers, and then get an accurate count of the passengers for every leg. That would make anyone hungry.
Vantuono as Editor-in-Chief of 'Railway Age' is not one to throw around unfounded stories. He is not the nickle and dime hack trying to make his bones by sabre rattling. He also has any number of 'informants' to be able to perform fact checking before publishing.
BaltACDPJS1 "A reliable rail industry source who wishes not to be named....." I am suspect of sources that refused to be named. I had an entirely different experience on the Texas Eagle this week between San Antonio and Dallas. And in coach at that! The service in the lounge car and the dining car was good. Whoops, you have no way to verify whether I am relatedly my experience accurately. And come to think about it, you don't know anything more about me than we know about a "reliable rail industry source. Unless he works for Amtrak, how does he know the train was sold out? He would have to count all the seats on the train, as well as those in the sleepers, and then get an accurate count of the passengers for every leg. That would make anyone hungry. Vantuono as Editor-in-Chief of 'Railway Age' is not one to throw around unfounded stories. He is not the nickle and dime hack trying to make his bones by sabre rattling. He also has any number of 'informants' to be able to perform fact checking before publishing.
Good, then he should have no qualms about naming the person or at least providing the reader with facts that can be verified independently. At this point all we have is one person's observations, which is presented as hearsay.
It is not just Railway Age. It is most of the media. They constantly quote anonymous sources, unnamed sources, etc. Is the source an executive, a manager, a professional, an engineer, or what? Does he or she work for a railroad, rail supplier, transit agency, etc.
Most of the people who post to these forums share personal observations that cannot be verified. There is no need to verify them; a reader can process them however he likes. But a national publication like Railway Age should be held to a higher standard than forum participants.
PJS1 BaltACD PJS1 "A reliable rail industry source who wishes not to be named....." I am suspect of sources that refused to be named. I had an entirely different experience on the Texas Eagle this week between San Antonio and Dallas. And in coach at that! The service in the lounge car and the dining car was good. Whoops, you have no way to verify whether I am relatedly my experience accurately. And come to think about it, you don't know anything more about me than we know about a "reliable rail industry source. Unless he works for Amtrak, how does he know the train was sold out? He would have to count all the seats on the train, as well as those in the sleepers, and then get an accurate count of the passengers for every leg. That would make anyone hungry. Vantuono as Editor-in-Chief of 'Railway Age' is not one to throw around unfounded stories. He is not the nickle and dime hack trying to make his bones by sabre rattling. He also has any number of 'informants' to be able to perform fact checking before publishing. Good, then he should have no qualms about naming the person or at least providing the reader with facts that can be verified independently. At this point all we have is hearsay. It is not just Railway Age. It is most of the media. They constantly rely on anonymous sources, unnamed sources, etc. Is the source an executive, a manager, a professional, an engineer, or what? Does he or she work for a railroad, rail supplier, transit agency, etc. Without this information any employee in the industry could be a reliable rail industry source. If I don't know who is commenting, I take it with a grain of salt, just like my comment regarding this week’s experiences on the Eagle should be taken with a grain of salt, although my comments did not wind up in a national publication. There is no way for anyone to verify my experiences on the Eagle. When I post data, most of which is financial, anyone who knows how to read Amtrak’s financials or those of any other entity that I am using as a source can check-out the numbers.
BaltACD PJS1 "A reliable rail industry source who wishes not to be named....." I am suspect of sources that refused to be named. I had an entirely different experience on the Texas Eagle this week between San Antonio and Dallas. And in coach at that! The service in the lounge car and the dining car was good. Whoops, you have no way to verify whether I am relatedly my experience accurately. And come to think about it, you don't know anything more about me than we know about a "reliable rail industry source. Unless he works for Amtrak, how does he know the train was sold out? He would have to count all the seats on the train, as well as those in the sleepers, and then get an accurate count of the passengers for every leg. That would make anyone hungry. Vantuono as Editor-in-Chief of 'Railway Age' is not one to throw around unfounded stories. He is not the nickle and dime hack trying to make his bones by sabre rattling. He also has any number of 'informants' to be able to perform fact checking before publishing.
Good, then he should have no qualms about naming the person or at least providing the reader with facts that can be verified independently. At this point all we have is hearsay.
It is not just Railway Age. It is most of the media. They constantly rely on anonymous sources, unnamed sources, etc. Is the source an executive, a manager, a professional, an engineer, or what? Does he or she work for a railroad, rail supplier, transit agency, etc. Without this information any employee in the industry could be a reliable rail industry source.
If I don't know who is commenting, I take it with a grain of salt, just like my comment regarding this week’s experiences on the Eagle should be taken with a grain of salt, although my comments did not wind up in a national publication. There is no way for anyone to verify my experiences on the Eagle.
When I post data, most of which is financial, anyone who knows how to read Amtrak’s financials or those of any other entity that I am using as a source can check-out the numbers.
Perhaps the source is an Amtrak employee.
If you worked in the corporate world then you know what can happen to employees who reveal confidential information or even just talk to the media without authorization.
And it's not just the Company, publicizing a story such as this could get one branded as a rat by co-workers and the Union.
Railway Age has a long, rich history of over 150 years. Vantuono has been working for them in various positions since 1992. With that sort of stature and reputation to protect he has every reason to fact-check thoroughly, and the experience to do so properly.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
SD70Dude .......the source is an Amtrak employee.
In the interim I edited my original response. We don't know the person being quoted, which is a critical point. The other point, which I added, is Railway Age is a national publication; it should be held to a higher standard than just printing what amounts to hearsay.
PJS1than just printing what amounts to hearsay.
You know I had to read up on that because I think it fails the definition of hearsay in this country because it is a first person account in which the news reporter corroborated. Similar to a law enforcement officer corroborating someones statement made to the Police.
It is not hearsay if the statement can be corroborated by the reporters notes and it is a first person account. Just withholding the source does not make the comments hearsay.
Courts have the same rule when the declarant is absent or refuses to testify because repeating the comments in a public forum would be contrary to the interest of the declarant. And so the court has to make special provisions in those cases to accomodate the declarant to submit testimony.
Forcing a witness to repeat their statements in a court without accomodation makes the witness a "hostile witness" but it does not make the evidence hearsay because the event was witnessed in first person and the witness is under oath.
CMStPnPPJS1 than just printing what amounts to hearsay. It is not hearsay if the statement can be corroborated by the reporters notes and it is a first person account. Just withholding the source does not make the comments hearsay. Courts have the same rule when the declarant is absent or refuses to testify because repeating the comments in a public forum would be contrary to the interest of the declarant. And so the court has to make special provisions in those cases to accomodate the declarant to submit testimony. Forcing a witness to repeat their statements in a court without accomodation makes the witness a "hostile witness" but it does not make the evidence hearsay because the event was witnessed in first person and the witness is under oath.
OK!
The diner and lounge car run through on the Crescent from New York to New Orleans. Normally the first seating southbound takes place before arriving DC. Service is supposed to be briefly suspended there due to the loss of HEP during the engine change, but what was reported here does, all too often happen on the Crescent—a long delay occurs before reopening.
The saga of all the crew appropriations of lounge tables is a system wide problem. The Lakeshore now has only a half Business/half lounge car, which has only 5 1/2 tables after allowing for a wheelchair tie down. The conductors inevitably tie up one full table, plus usually the half table as well and the lounge car attendant another, leaving only three tables for all the riders on the train. That’s only 12 seats
With the diner now reserved as a sleeper only venue the tiny lounge area still must serve four coaches and at peak over 200 coach passengers. Why the crews will not use either a few coach seats or the proper conductor rooms in the full Amfleet II lounge cars is both very sad and a mystery.
Further to the bonafides of the author, the article is the work of the editor of Railway Age.
Regardless of who wrote the article and regardless of whether it is considered hearsay or not, I have had far more experiences like this on Amtrak trains than I have had good experiences.
And remember the only thing that is actually true to you is that which you have experienced yourself. So, in this case, except for the author and other passengers on the train, it is hearsay.
Railvt Further the bonafides of the author, the article is the work of the editor of Railway Age.
Further the bonafides of the author, the article is the work of the editor of Railway Age.
runnerdude48 ......I have had far more experiences like this on Amtrak trains than I have had good experiences.
......I have had far more experiences like this on Amtrak trains than I have had good experiences.
Most of my Amtrak trips have been on the Texas Eagle, Sunset Limited, Pacific Surliner, Pennsylvanian, and the NEC. I ride the Eagle at least eight times a year between Dallas and Austin or San Antonio; I ride the NEC trains and Pacific Surfliner trains at least three times a year. So, I have had a reasonable amount of experience riding Amtrak's trains.
For the most part my interactions with Amtrak's crews have been positive. Oh, I have had a few bad experiences, but I have allowed them to roll off like water off the back of a duck.
PJS1Just because it is in print does not make it true. Or thorough, complete, and accurate!
Of course not. But this wasn't a news article. It was an editorial related an anedote from someone the editor knows and believes.
From my rides on the Crescent and other Amtrak trains over the past couple decades, it's a bit of an outlier, but not way out.
Train crew taking up lounge space and not using space provided by the company? Always.
Staff going on break during "normal" hours. Common.
Doing inventory during normal "selling" hours. Common.
Amtrak has loads of questionable business practices and poor enforcment of their own standards.
I remember reading long ago that Graham Claytor would regularly ride trains to personally check on the service and physical condition of the trains. Have any of his successors done that?
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
oltmannd Of course not. But this wasn't a news article. It was an editorial related an anedote from someone the editor knows and believes.
You are correct. But notice from the comments how many readers seemed to give it credibility because it was passed on and printed by the editor of a reputable trade journal.
Editors need to be mindful of how their passing along a story carries more weight in the minds of many than is justified.
If someone goes into an establishment expecting poor service - they are rarely disappointed.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
PJS1 oltmannd Of course not. But this wasn't a news article. It was an editorial related an anedote from someone the editor knows and believes. You are correct. But notice from the comments how many readers seemed to give it credibility because it was passed on and printed by the editor of a reputable trade journal. Editors need to be mindful of how their passing along a story carries more weight in the minds of many than is justified.
I suspect the Editor-in-Chief of Railway Age was fully mindful of the weight of his relating the story. One doesn't remain Editor-in-Chief as long as he has throwing stuff against the wall and seeing if it sticks or inventing fake news.
Are not both the Creescent and the Cardinal being turned at Washington because of Penn Sta. NY trackwork? This summer?
daveklepper Are not both the Creescent and the Cardinal being turned at Washington because of Penn Sta. NY trackwork? This summer?
PJS1Most of my Amtrak trips have been on the Texas Eagle, Sunset Limited, Pacific Surliner, Pennsylvanian, and the NEC. I ride the Eagle at least eight times a year between Dallas and Austin or San Antonio; I ride the NEC trains and Pacific Surfliner trains at least three times a year. So, I have had a reasonable amount of experience riding Amtrak's trains. For the most part my interactions with Amtrak's crews have been positive. Oh, I have had a few bad experiences, but I have allowed them to roll off like water off the back of a duck.
I have had a bad experience almost every time I ride the Texas Eagle, though I stay on the train a LOT longer than you do. From Dallas to Chicago and return and I always go with the Sleeper.......so I should argue being First Class there shouldn't be any bad experiences. I ride the Texas Eagle once sometimes twice a year over that route.
I think I have higher standards though than the average Trains Magazine reader because I would never rate Amtrak Diner food 4-5 star gourmet, like a lot of posters here would. Better than an Army MRE.....yes. Better than three star.......never.
I remember my last trip on the Texas Eagle to Chicago Northbound.
Restroom stunk like outhouses on the second half of the trip and were extraordinarily messy. There was one clean one still fresh but only one in my sleeping car. I found myself cleaning up more after the previous passenger than the car attendant. Return part of the trip the car attendent just rationed one or two conversations per passenger for the trip back, beyond that she didn't want to socialize with anyone or be seen much. Again this is First Class.
Again with service on the Dining Car, you order alchol your going to be sitting there forever waiting on the bill. Overheard the Dining Car attendent being overly assertive again with the filling out of Dining Car tickets fine line between instructing and public bitching. And of course the dummy waiters had broken down so they were bringing dishes up via stairs......and with no methodology on when the orders were put in. A break down of the dummy waiters should not lead to a break down in table service........but it did. That was the three incidents I remember from the last trip. Will ride them again this Christmas and I wonder what experience awaits me this time. I can't figure out if it is Union rules getting in the way or Amtrak employees are just too dumb to care.
Paul of CovingtonHave any of his successors done that?
The last guy would ride Amtraks Private Car when on a Long Distance train for any period of time longer than 3-4 hours...........pretty sure he would eat in it as well with his Executive Chef. Saw a few news clips of him on Accela with regular customers but beyond the NEC or a Corridor train........he took the private car with him.
CMStPnP Paul of Covington Have any of his successors done that? The last guy would ride Amtraks Private Car when on a Long Distance train for any period of time longer than 3-4 hours...........pretty sure he would eat in it as well with his Executive Chef. Saw a few news clips of him on Accela with regular customers but beyond the NEC or a Corridor train........he took the private car with him.
Paul of Covington Have any of his successors done that?
On the freight carriers side of the equation, knowledge of his and his car's presence on a LD train was announced a day or two in advance of that train's operation and 'best possible' handling was requested.
CMStPnP can't figure out if it is Union rules getting in the way or Amtrak employees are just too dumb to care.
BaltACDOn the freight carriers side of the equation, knowledge of his and his car's presence on a LD train was announced a day or two in advance of that train's operation and 'best possible' handling was requested.
I could never understand Boardman, his marketing or market branding of Amtrak seemed like a hodge podge of total confusion. He might have been great as a government employee but he sucked at running a private company.
I still can't get over the YouTube he or someone did "Amtrak America" on the CAF cars. WTH does that mean and why does it require an unmatched paint scheme? Very strange.
BTW, enjoying from afar the latest CAF disaster on the West Coast. Trolley cars manufactured too large for the trolley system clearences. Really? Is there at least a competent Engineer at CAF that looks at these things or do they rely on politicians with no experience?
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/seattle-has-ordered-streetcars-much-bigger-and-heavier-than-the-old-ones-but-is-that-a-problem/
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