NorthWest I'm not sure that the author really has anything to personally gain from this as he's no longer with Amtrak, but I am a bit suspicious of the stated reason why the project was cancelled. Worth at least an experiment again though. If it doesn't work just cancel it and move on.
I'm not sure that the author really has anything to personally gain from this as he's no longer with Amtrak, but I am a bit suspicious of the stated reason why the project was cancelled.
Worth at least an experiment again though. If it doesn't work just cancel it and move on.
So my take having run a fast casual sub shop with cooked to order subs. Some of what is said is true. Night Chef doing morning prep and the Day Chef can sleep in. That was true for the place I ran and I started service at Lunch and only served Lunch and Dinner. Breakfest is break even at best because the prices are so low the margins are slim so the franchise I worked for said serving breakfest was optional but they recommended against it, particularly if you were in a shopping mall because most malls open around 9-10 a.m. and your mostly leaving the breakfest time by then.
So basically with Joe Public and meal times just based on my experience in a shopping mall (lifestyle mall). Majority of clients ate at fixed meal times of 11:00 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.......and 4:30 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. Outside of those times almost a ghost town. I was open from 10:30 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. Now sometimes when there was a good movie on at the Mall Cinema we could potentially get a small crowd at 9:00 to 9:30 p.m. but it was too rare to pay the labor to extend the hours. Every once in a while we would get a handful of mall workers show up right at 10 or 10:15 to grab a early lunch and we would open early for them. So the part about the Diner being more profitable if opened 24 by 7 I find highly doubtful with a largely fixed clientele on a moving passenger train.
So if we opened at 10:30 a.m. I wanted the crew in at 9:00 to 9:30 a.m. to prep most of the food for the day so it was fresh. Some food could be done the night before and would keep (onions, carrots and if you know how to cut Lettuce it would keep as well......otherwise it turns to mush). Tomatos, Green Peppers and the rest that was fresh had to be prepped the day of. After the dining room closed it took another 1.5 hours to cleanup to Health Department standards.
BTW, best way to cut Ice Berg and Romaine Lettuce is to chill first in Ice Water, dry the head off with a towel and cut with a very sharp knife in 1 inch squares. It would keep for several days that way and taste fresh like you just cut it each day.....because that method limits the moisture release over time. Romaine you of course had to de-vien (the large viens) it first before cutting the leafs smaller. Anyhoo, off on a tanget but that little trick of knowing how to cut lettuce saved boku bucks in avoiding spoilage. Some kitchens you'll notice use a food processor, it is faster but you pay for it in spoilage because you have to use everything you send through a food processor the in 1-1.5 days or it's crap.
NorthWest Interesting editorial: https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/intercity/getting-there-is-half-the-fun/
Interesting editorial: https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/intercity/getting-there-is-half-the-fun/
Written by someone who has a vested interest in putting the best possible spin on the outcomes.
Where are the numbers, i.e. incremental revenues, costs, etc.?
There is no independently verifiable supporting data for any of the claims made by the author. If he made claims like these in a real business, he would be required to put up or shut up. Or he would have been shown the door. And it would not have been the door to the executive dining room.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
zugmannI think too many people expect 5-star dining in a stainless steel tube when it comes to Amtrak
Amtrak barely makes it to the two star level. There isn't any passenger train I have been on (including pre-Amtrak) that made it to the 5 star level. So I would disagree that is the expectation. The highest I would rate the Rocky Mountineer Gold Leaf food service is 4 stars. Of course for some strange reason they could include caviar on one of the dishes and get the damn meal to the table on time. Don't know why they were so efficient.....seemed like they had the same staffing level as Amtrak. It was obvious though on the Rocky Mountaineer they just finished preparation of most of their dishes. They were brought on board partially prepared and just needed to be chilled or heated. No idea what the cook in the Dining Car on Amtrak is doing or needs to do that run up the prep times so high, would be interesting to find out. Though I suspect a major time loss is the dummy waiter between floors.
Amtraks meals are far below the quality that a First Class passenger should expect and the only reason there is not more complaining in that area is because meals are perceived to be "free" to First Class. Charging First Class passengers extra for wine and beer is just plain marketing stupidity. What is the cost savings vs percieved benefit of charging First Class for Beer and Wine? Very marginal on the General Ledger if you ask me. Asking people to pay for those two items at meal time lowers the travel experience a lot more than it gains in revenue. Mixed drinks different story.
BaltACDThere is a big difference in the expectations for lunch and dinner. Never have heard a good review about boxed dinners.
Look up Ekibens.
I think too many people expect 5-star dining in a stainless steel tube when it comes to Amtrak. Yet cheaper restaurants, fast food places, and conveninece stores usually have plenty of customers. Food for thought.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
I do not consider the Amtrak diner meals "fabulous," but they are a change from what is avaailable where I live.
As to box meals, I ate several in the last six years or so before Amtrak came into operation. They did make it possible to eat at reasonable times while traveling during the day. Except for ACL's day train between Waycross and Montgomery, all the trains on which I bought the box meals in that time had had diners in previous years.
Johnny
CMStPnPI don't remember hearing many if any complaints on the much higher priced Rocky Mountaineer Gold Leaf Service when they served box lunches on the Icefields Parkway tour. Everyone thought they were great. So we'll see how Amtrak passengers react to this but just based on the FB pictures. Boxed meal looks like a better deal than most of the crap they were cooking as Dinner. Some of you folks have really low standards when it comes to a hot meal, if you really think the majority of the current Amtrak Dinner menu is just fabulous. Perhaps you should try serving some to the public where you get the kind of instant feedback from regular customers who expect better. Or better yet, go to the Amtrak homepage and start reading some of the comments about the food from the first time riders or those not in a semi-hypnotic state just because they are riding a passenger train.
Some of you folks have really low standards when it comes to a hot meal, if you really think the majority of the current Amtrak Dinner menu is just fabulous. Perhaps you should try serving some to the public where you get the kind of instant feedback from regular customers who expect better. Or better yet, go to the Amtrak homepage and start reading some of the comments about the food from the first time riders or those not in a semi-hypnotic state just because they are riding a passenger train.
There is a big difference in the expectations for lunch and dinner. Never have heard a good review about boxed dinners.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I don't remember hearing many if any complaints on the much higher priced Rocky Mountaineer Gold Leaf Service when they served box lunches on the Icefields Parkway tour. Everyone thought they were great. So we'll see how Amtrak passengers react to this but just based on the FB pictures. Boxed meal looks like a better deal than most of the crap they were cooking as Dinner.
Amtrak HAS to do a lot better with it's current meal offerings in the Dinning Car, they suck, others just taste bad and are badly presented. They could charge more for the meals if they offered better tasting and better presented fare.
Deggesty BaltACD MidlandMike All's I can think, is that Amtrak management must be empathy-challanged to subject a captive clientele to a 16 hour train ride with not a single hot meal. Anderson will have the airline refrain - Give them another bag of pretzels. To me, pretzels are a last resort--especially the little ones that are put out in the Washington lounge. No; goldfish (also available to the patorns in Washington) are the last resort.
BaltACD MidlandMike All's I can think, is that Amtrak management must be empathy-challanged to subject a captive clientele to a 16 hour train ride with not a single hot meal. Anderson will have the airline refrain - Give them another bag of pretzels.
MidlandMike All's I can think, is that Amtrak management must be empathy-challanged to subject a captive clientele to a 16 hour train ride with not a single hot meal.
Anderson will have the airline refrain - Give them another bag of pretzels.
To me, pretzels are a last resort--especially the little ones that are put out in the Washington lounge. No; goldfish (also available to the patorns in Washington) are the last resort.
Never seen Goldfish when flying (however it has been 9 years since I have flown)
BaltACDEquiping the right of way that Amtrak does not own for Wi-Fi is the problem.
The technology is such now that VIA Rail equips it's cars for full reception and not the right of way. I don't know if they put a dish on each car but on the Skeena you could see more than one dish on the top of the train (they appear as a circular white dome). VIA Rail had a laptop sitting in the last Park Series Car. Not sure if that was open to the public or if that was the "server" for corrdinating the onboard system setup by the VIA Rail crew.
BTW, Direct TV also offers pure satellite internet these days. Never tried it because in bad weather I know it will fail.
Amtrak can do it but as the current Amtrak CEO correctly assessed a lot of the past management thinking is stuck in the 1970's and 1960's with what they provide to the passenger in Amtrak services.......and that needs to change.
Enzoamps Wifi? aside from not owning the tracks, imagine running Wifi support wiring all along the CHicago to Washington route just for one Capitol Limited each day. Even if they considered Toledo to Connelsville is usually traversed in the middle of the night and left it out, that is still many miles for a super low usage. And further, I'd look at that investment as at risk since they are probably just as in doubt as I am that the Capitol will still be running in the near future. Same argument for all the other cross country trains. Darn difficult to get cell phone through the mountains too.
Wifi? aside from not owning the tracks, imagine running Wifi support wiring all along the CHicago to Washington route just for one Capitol Limited each day. Even if they considered Toledo to Connelsville is usually traversed in the middle of the night and left it out, that is still many miles for a super low usage. And further, I'd look at that investment as at risk since they are probably just as in doubt as I am that the Capitol will still be running in the near future.
Same argument for all the other cross country trains. Darn difficult to get cell phone through the mountains too.
.............and Yet VIA RAIL provides Wi-Fi on most of it's long distance trains including a very stable Internet connection along the route of the VIA Rail Skeena that traverses through several mountain ranges and tunnels......and extremely remote areas. Guess how they do it?
They put a dish dome on the top of some of the cars and recieve from a combo of Satellite or local cellular depending on which is available and offers better quality. The dish recievers are linked together so in short tunnels the signal is still picked up by the part of the train not in the tunnel. The server on the train picks which signal to use based on speed and stability. It's rather clever and works pretty good. Speed is faster than dial up but not like Fiber but good enough to connect to the Internet for most apps.
Enzoamps Wifi? aside from not owning the tracks, imagine running Wifi support wiring all along the CHicago to Washington route just for one Capitol Limited each day. Even if they considered Toledo to Connelsville is usually traversed in the middle of the night and left it out, that is still many miles for a super low usage. And further, I'd look at that investment as at risk since they are probably just as in doubt as I am that the Capitol will still be running in the near future.
I think you would use WiFi/WLAN on the train to distribute the signal picked up by the train through 2G/3G and 4G/LTE from the extensive cellular networks. The coverage in the US is quite good:
Every hotel I have stayed at for the past decade have had a refrigerator and micorwave in the room. Are normal hotel guests more astute in the use of these devices than the average Amtrak sleeping car passenger? I have no idea what actions housekeeping perform to keep these devices clean - I doubt the hotel housekeeping staff is any more qualified than Amtrak car cleaners. The hot plate I threw out there with my tongue firmly in my cheek, however, Canadian locomotives I understand must be equiped with a hot plate for Canadian crews.
Equiping Amtrak cars for Wi-Fi is realtively easy. Equiping the right of way that Amtrak does not own for Wi-Fi is the problem.
BaltACDAll sleeping accomidations should be equipped with a refrigerator, microwave oven and a hot plate - then Amtrak can eliminate the diner. With a hot plate Amtrak's sleeping accomidations would then be a step up on most current day hotels. Exhaust manifold cooking on the locomotive is not a viable option for sleeping car passengers.
You notice that even though the Sleepers have been rebuilt once or twice the electronics and electronic devices on them still date from the late 1970's. Why Amtrak has not updated to bluetooth, Wi-Fi, etc. Anyones guess and it would not be a huge added expense on top of a sleeper rebuild.
The communal kitchen in a sleeper would not work as it needs to be maintained to health department standards and most passengers can see with the toilet maintenece that is probably going to be spotty at best. Putting a kitchen within a sleeping car compartment would be a fire concern as even with a microwave and a audible timer in front of them.......have seen employees at work nearly start a fire with microwaveable popcorn. Some passengers would be idiots around anything that would be a fire hazzard.
Refrigerators and ice makers in the sleeping car compartment might be workable but still they have to be emptied, cleaned and sterilized at the end of each journey. Sterialization can be done via traditional blue fluid spray (forget what that stuff is called but it non-toxic if mixed correctly). So maybe a really small refrigerator and ice maker / cold water dispenser?
If it was me and I was running Amtrak and I had a very little money to add something to the sleeping car compartment. Definitely would be a lockable mini-bar and once the passenger was given the key they would be responsible for the inventory in the minibar. Think of the marginal revenue that would add and you can store the liquor at room temperature so only would need a lockable cabinet with potentially a small ice maker.
OvermodWhy, the next thing you know, we'll have a refrigerator available for our carry-on delicacies, and a CD player for ambient music or celebrations... and be up to the luxury-content level of Australian ore Trains!
All sleeping accomidations should be equipped with a refrigerator, microwave oven and a hot plate - then Amtrak can eliminate the diner. With a hot plate Amtrak's sleeping accomidations would then be a step up on most current day hotels. Exhaust manifold cooking on the locomotive is not a viable option for sleeping car passengers.
Why, the next thing you know, we'll have a refrigerator available for our carry-on delicacies, and a CD player for ambient music or celebrations... and be up to the luxury-content level of Australian ore Trains!
NKP guy Once again, good news from Amtrak regarding their ongoing valiant efforts to serve us better! A microwave oven has been placed in the brand-new, expensive dining car, and it's expressly for our use alone as First Class passengers! Look out, Canada! We're overtaking on you with our new Amtrak Prestige Service on the Lake Shore Limited and the Capitol Limited!
Look out, Canada! We're overtaking on you with our new Amtrak Prestige Service on the Lake Shore Limited and the Capitol Limited!
Will CSX & NS be told to operate the trains with 'Canadian' style On Time performance?
Once again, good news from Amtrak regarding their ongoing valiant efforts to serve us better! A microwave oven has been placed in the brand-new, expensive dining car, and it's expressly for our use alone as First Class passengers!
Now Trains Newswire states that Amtrak has reversed itself and will offer 2 hot meal options on these trains. However, the dining options remain the same, in your compartment or in the dining car reserved for sleeping car passengers.
The problem started with Congress and PRIIA. Running trains to maintain at least a contingency passenger rail network is going to need subsidy. If you are transporting people for several hours, you are going to need to feed them. If it takes more subsidy to run a moving eatery, than that is the cost of providing the public service. To think you can parse out food service is absurd. History is repeating itself. Before Amtrak, the railroads were compelled to run the passenger trains, but apparently food service was left up to the carriers. Some railroads installed automats or did other cost-cutting things to discourage patronage. Now Congress has replaced private rail management, and the new Amtrak head is like the former passenger dept., tasked with cutting costs, with the added benefit of discouraging business. Watching travelogues, I see that even third world countries serve hot food on their trains.
This dreadful, passenger-be-damned attitude of the new regime at Amtrak is just breaking my heart. No good can come from such a misguided policy, which is no doubt management's goal.
The vision of me sitting in a brand new but non-functioning diner, eating my dinner out of a box with plastic utensils and then cleaning up after myself, is not at all a pleasant one. Nor will I be likely ever to speak to a coach passenger again; so much for meeting young people and foreign tourists. And all of this Amtrak-inflicted misery is being sold to us "to serve you better." As if.
When I rode #49 in late April I made sure I went into the station at Albany-Rensselaer and photographed the menuboard at the deli there. I recommend westbound passengers either bring their own provender aboard at NYP or buy soup and sandwiches at the Rensselaer deli. We will still have to eat in the segregated dining car-that's-not-a-dining car, and off of paper and cardboard, but at least the food we eat will be hot and of a much wider and better prepared variety than what Amtrak is grudgingly offering.
As far as I'm concerned, Amtrak can take their cold meal and shove it.
No problem Railvt!
Just include the full cost of food and beverages in the price. That is what a real business would do. Then see how many takers Amtrak gets.
A case can be made for subsidizing long distance passenger trains in areas not served by other commercial passenger carriers, although they are few and far between in the U.S. But there is no social justification for subsidizing meals on an Amtrak train.
Here's a photo of the Antipasto dinner box on the LAKESHORE LIMITED. There's not even a proper plate provided. This is an "upgraded" example of an airline snack pack--not a proper meal.
www.facebook.com/hvfoodservice
This is gosh awful. One group of riders will love this. The rodent family residents of the coach yards will find their way on-board, as there will be a treasure rolling around under the seats in the sleeper rooms to enjoy! I hope they'll enjoy their re-locations from the east coast to the Midwest (and return?)!
And I'm not just being sarcastic. Encouraging most passengers to eat in their rooms as the new policy does (even though a full Viewliner diner is present as the "Sleeper Lounge") means food will need to be aggressively cleaned up in the ultra-confined space of the sleeper rooms. This was an issue years ago when Amtrak was still handing out free snack amenity packs in the sleepers. Like it or not the yard crews just weren't capable of deep cleaning after every run. We can count on this to be a problem again.
Even in the "Sleeper lounge" the one person crew will be very unlikely to be willing/able to properly clean up after each "meal". Truly this plan is not clean or sanitary.
It's also sad to note that coach passengers are also really getting the shaft on the LSL. The Viewliner diner is for sleeper only access. The "Coach Lounge" is actually half of a Business/Lounge Amfleet I cafe car. At best that means only 5 1/2 tables--but invariably the conductors take one full table and the handicap half table. The attendent takes another--meaning the 240+ riders in the four Amfleet II coaches "share" at most three lounge tables on this train.
So the Anderson management pours down its contempt on all riders.
Carl Fowler
PJS1Dragging the dining car around as a lounge car gives the appearance that Amtrak doesn't really know what it is doing.
And this is news?
Deggesty John, from information sent to me in connection with my planned upcoming trip, the former diners will now be first-class lounges, and sleeper passengers will be able to eat their meals in them.
John, from information sent to me in connection with my planned upcoming trip, the former diners will now be first-class lounges, and sleeper passengers will be able to eat their meals in them.
If the dining cars were parked, how much fuel would be saved by pulling a train with one less car?
A Superliner lounge car has eight tables topside and up to four tables on the lower level. It seems to me that those sleeping car passengers who wanted to break bread with their fellow passengers could do so in the lounge car. I suspect some of them would be happy to chow down in their rooms. Unless everyone rushed the lounge car at the same time, there should be room.
Dragging the dining car around as a lounge car gives the appearance that Amtrak doesn't really know what it is doing.
Just what the division of labor will be, I do not know, but I somehow have the impression that there will be one person taking care of the meals for all of the sleeper passengers.
If you ever traveled in sleepers before Amtrak got its current sleepers you would know that the current sleepers are not quite first class, even though the regular Amtrak bedrooms and Viewliner accessible bedrooms do have showers. I even think that the Slumbercoach accommodations were better than the Amtrak roomettes.
OK. Do we have a report from trackside?
Did the Capitol Limited and Lakeshore Limited depart their respective terminals Friday WITHOUT dining cars?
How about a report from anyone who was on board either of these trains? What is the new menu? What is the dining service (I use that word loosely) like?
Sounds to me like the Sleeping Car Attendant is now also the Chef / Cook, Dining Car Steward, and also Waiter. This guy will be worked to death before the train can even get up to track speed! No wonder the unions are unhappy with the new situation.
Anyone have an up-to-date report on how things are now operating, meal-wise, on these two trains?
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