My wife and I just got got back from our vacation with the Amtrak Northern Rail Experience package. We were especially pleased with the sleeping car service on the "Empire Builder" and "Coast Starlight" and tipped accordingly. Dining car service on the "California Zephyr" was excellent and we left a generous tip for our waiter.
Many thanks to those who provided replies for my questions about tipping.
ACY:
Thanks for your insights. My wife and I rode the Auto Train to Florida in the 70s when it was operated by Auto Train Corporation. Although I am not keen about overnight train trips, we enjoyed the experience. I seem to remember that we had a bedroom in a single level car.
Again, thanks for your insights.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
CMSTPnP:
I personally always tried to avoid eating non-Amtrak food in the presence of passengers, for the reasons you cite. However, this was not always possible in the close quarters of the train.
Uncompensated time away from home may not bother you, and that's your right. If it bothered me too much, I probably wouldn't have stuck with the job as long as I did. But I'm not the one who brought up wages in the first place. Since it was brought up, I felt that a bit of context was in order. On a typical round trip, an Auto Train OBS employee reports for work around noon on day 1 (report time actually varies according to job) and is released from duty at 9:30 am on day 3. That's 45-1/2 hours away from home and family. The employee is actually paid for about 28 of those hours. Those who cite high hourly pay never mention this, so I thought I ought to.
Those who work in other jobs for other employers can decide for themselves whether they are being fairly compensated. You have mentioned their circumstances, but you have not mentioned the size of their checks (not that it's any of my business).
Tom
JPS1:
1. Three days (2 nights) on the road; Two days (3 nights) at home.
2. and 4. Auto Train OBS are all based at the Lorton, VA crew base. Since the Auto Train is the only train that is served by the Lorton crew base, it is, by default, the best one.
3. Yes.
5. That's probably impossible to answer. I have been told Auto Train has the shortest layover. Back in 1987 I was on the Washington DC crew base extra board. I never liked working any train that terminated at Sunnyside in NYC because of poor performance by Mechanical Dept. and poor cooperation from the local crew base. That may or may not be true today. Some people hate the long times away from home on the very long distance trains; others thrive on it. Some like assignments like the NEC because of more time at home; others don't like the hectic pace of that. A person may transfer from crew base A to B and love the change. Another may transfer from B to A and love it just as much. A lot also has to do with the chemistry that exists on a given crew. For those who are given overnight hotel accommodations at a turnaround point, there is a pretty wide variety of quality at the various hotels, and I don't pretend to know about them. If I did, my information would probably be out of date since I retired over 2 years ago.
Auto Train used to be quite unique, with a distinctive service and hand-picked crews. Current management has made no secret that it wants Auto Train service to be the same as that on other trains, within the limitations of the specific needs of that train. Around January of 2014, one manager addressed OBS crews, saying they had been treated as Prima Donnas up to that time, and telling them if they didn't like the new regime, Wal Mart was hiring. This particular manager had no actual Auto Train working experience, and precious little onboard experience at all. Auto Tain employees actually know that they had been breaking their backs for years to make the Auto Train what it was, and they were not Prima Donnas because nothing was ever made particularly easy for them. That manager is still there.
ACY CMStPnP: I take your point about employees eating the same food they serve. On Amtrak, crew members are not permitted to put their personal foods in Dining car or lounge car refrigerators, and are not permitted to use Dining car or loung car microwaves or convection ovens to cook it. That means they eat food from the diner or the lounge. The only alternative is cold food brought from home or a commercial establishment. Over my years in long distance onboard service, I've done all three. Since the menu doesn't change much over a period of many months, this means eating a lot of the same thing a lot of times. I knew our chefs. I knew their strengths and weaknesses, and had a pretty good idea what to recommend/suggest to our patrons. Actually, I rarely had a reason to make such suggestions because I was fortunate to work with some outstanding chefs. I could tell them to look over the menu and choose whatever appealed to them, and be pretty sure they would like it. For variety, I might change my own meal a bit to make it different from the one I had the night before. If I had meat last night, I might have the same thing in a sandwich tonight, even thought that's not exactly how it was presented to the passenger on the menu. Sometimes I just wasn't very hungry, and was satisfied with a hot dog or a burger from the lounge. I have a favorite bakery in my home town, where they make excellent pies. Sometimes I would buy one and bring it on the trip to share with my coworkers. It would last for the first day without refrigeration, and my friends on the crew appreciated it. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't have been able to do this? After all, the crew is on the train without access to other dining facilities for more than one trip. It's trip after trip, for months at a time, with minimal menu changes. Please don't tell me you expect us to restrict ourselves to train food ONLY. Over a career of almost 30 years, I served meals proudly, with no hesitation. If there was something wrong, as sometimes happened, I apologized and did all in my power to correct the situation. I knew the menu, and I knew the quality of the product. I didn't have to have dining car food at every meal in order to do that. As for pay, yes I was paid a decent wage, better than that of many food service workers. However, it should be remembered that onboard service employees are not paid for all the hours they are away from home. They are paid for hours ON ACTUAL DUTY only. There is no pay for the many hours of layover, rest time, etc. when the employee is hundreds of miles from home and family, and unable to use his down time as freely as employees in other jobs can do. Tips are a reward for good service, and a recognition of the effort and sacrifice the server makes on the customer's behalf. They are appreciated when they are offered. But I never allowed them to control me. I provided service; the tips appeared. If they did not appear, I might ask myself whether there was something I could have done better, but I did not resent the customer for that because I rarely knew enough about his reasons to judge. Tom
CMStPnP:
I take your point about employees eating the same food they serve. On Amtrak, crew members are not permitted to put their personal foods in Dining car or lounge car refrigerators, and are not permitted to use Dining car or loung car microwaves or convection ovens to cook it. That means they eat food from the diner or the lounge. The only alternative is cold food brought from home or a commercial establishment.
Over my years in long distance onboard service, I've done all three. Since the menu doesn't change much over a period of many months, this means eating a lot of the same thing a lot of times. I knew our chefs. I knew their strengths and weaknesses, and had a pretty good idea what to recommend/suggest to our patrons. Actually, I rarely had a reason to make such suggestions because I was fortunate to work with some outstanding chefs. I could tell them to look over the menu and choose whatever appealed to them, and be pretty sure they would like it.
For variety, I might change my own meal a bit to make it different from the one I had the night before. If I had meat last night, I might have the same thing in a sandwich tonight, even thought that's not exactly how it was presented to the passenger on the menu. Sometimes I just wasn't very hungry, and was satisfied with a hot dog or a burger from the lounge.
I have a favorite bakery in my home town, where they make excellent pies. Sometimes I would buy one and bring it on the trip to share with my coworkers. It would last for the first day without refrigeration, and my friends on the crew appreciated it. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't have been able to do this?
After all, the crew is on the train without access to other dining facilities for more than one trip. It's trip after trip, for months at a time, with minimal menu changes. Please don't tell me you expect us to restrict ourselves to train food ONLY.
Over a career of almost 30 years, I served meals proudly, with no hesitation. If there was something wrong, as sometimes happened, I apologized and did all in my power to correct the situation. I knew the menu, and I knew the quality of the product. I didn't have to have dining car food at every meal in order to do that.
As for pay, yes I was paid a decent wage, better than that of many food service workers. However, it should be remembered that onboard service employees are not paid for all the hours they are away from home. They are paid for hours ON ACTUAL DUTY only. There is no pay for the many hours of layover, rest time, etc. when the employee is hundreds of miles from home and family, and unable to use his down time as freely as employees in other jobs can do. Tips are a reward for good service, and a recognition of the effort and sacrifice the server makes on the customer's behalf. They are appreciated when they are offered. But I never allowed them to control me. I provided service; the tips appeared. If they did not appear, I might ask myself whether there was something I could have done better, but I did not resent the customer for that because I rarely knew enough about his reasons to judge.
Well first the response to your question. It doesn't bother me personally what Amtrak Policy is on food consumption. However, if you bring food from home or have an item on the menu personally customized........In my opinion, you should not consume it in a public area in front of the passengers. It sounds stupid but when a paying passenger sees that, they start to wonder whats wrong or whythey cannot do the same.
Second, why do you keep bringing up NOT being compensated for being away from home. Nobody that I am aware of does that in private industry with traveling employees. You get provided sleeping accomodations and two meals each day and thats it, possibly a car depending on if you need it. The rest is your expense (laundry, lunch, skype charges, any extra trips home, entertainment, etc).
Thanks for the insights. Perhaps you would be willing to answer five other questions.
By best I mean duties, class of customers, compensation, time away from home, overnight accommodations when away from home, etc.
Thanks
BaltACD Note - the OBS short turnaround doesn't apply to the Conductor and Engineer that are covered by the Hours of Service Law. Those employees are required to have 10 hours undisturbed rest - as such they would work back the following day. The Auto-Train crew change point, in each direction, is Florence where the locomotives are fueled in both directions.
Note - the OBS short turnaround doesn't apply to the Conductor and Engineer that are covered by the Hours of Service Law. Those employees are required to have 10 hours undisturbed rest - as such they would work back the following day. The Auto-Train crew change point, in each direction, is Florence where the locomotives are fueled in both directions.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Then and now, Auto Train OBS employees return north the same day. If everything is on time, crew members can be released from the train by 10:00 am in Sanford, then return and report back to work at 2:00 pm. Boarding begins at 2:30, assuming the Terminal personnel have completed servicing and cleaning the train.
Every OBS employee makes his/her own decisions on use of their time in Sanford. Some want a shower; some want a good meal (served by somebody else!). Some want a nap. There is rarely time for all three, considering the poor transportation to restaurants. There is no pay for the four hours layover away from home, and no pay for any onboard hours when the employee is not actually scheduled to be physically working. Based on hours away from home, you can figure that the OBS employee's hourly pay is about 60% of the advertised pay rate. Of course, this varies with routes, schedules, job classifications, etc.
P.S.: I said "If everything is on time." Today's southbound Auto Train no. 53 was scheduled to arrive at 9:30 am. As of 4 pm, it has just arrived. Delays were due to trees down due to a nighttime storm in the Carolinas, and a disabled freight train in Georgia. Departure tonight will be late. Boarding for the northbound train will be as soon as the train can be prepared after a hasty turnaround. The OBS crew's layover will be severely shortened, and there will be quite a rush to get moving north as soon as possible. The passengers come first. Crew comfort and convenience are not considerations. It's currently 97 degrees F in Sanford.The train will arrive late in Lorton tomorrow, and at least one of my Amtrak employee friends will miss his connections for vacation travel at the end of this round trip.
As I have said, I agree that there is no obligation to tip generously, if at all. I only want to be sure you all understand that these conditions are some of the things the crews endure to serve you. You may wish to keep them in mind when making decisions regarding tipping.
schlimm Far more damaging can be the various online public ratings online sites such as Yelp, Trip Advisor, et al.. The ratings can be useful, but can also be totally bogus (folks with a grudge, disturbed folks, competitors). The trouble with many complaints about a car attendant or a wait staff on Amtrak is that it is very subjective and often motivated by factors outside that staff's control: lateness, bad equipment, bad food from commissary, rough roadbed, etc. Yet J. Doe gets the blame because he's Amtrak's face to J.Q. Public.
Far more damaging can be the various online public ratings online sites such as Yelp, Trip Advisor, et al.. The ratings can be useful, but can also be totally bogus (folks with a grudge, disturbed folks, competitors).
The trouble with many complaints about a car attendant or a wait staff on Amtrak is that it is very subjective and often motivated by factors outside that staff's control: lateness, bad equipment, bad food from commissary, rough roadbed, etc. Yet J. Doe gets the blame because he's Amtrak's face to J.Q. Public.
Yes, judgment is required of the reviews reader, part of our wonderful new information-age package. Yet, who would un-invent, willingly divest himself of, the new tools?
A mixed blessing, like so much else modernity has given us.
Toronto Fan:
The food is provided by the Company for the staff to prepare. Assuming the food is properly stored while on board, the staff has virtually no control over the quality or freshness of that food. The Company's decision to eliminate china in favor of less desirable dinner ware is also out of the control of the staff.
You have the right to choose whether to tip or not, and how much. But your decision should be based on the quality of the service. It is fair to judge that service according to the things that the server can control. It is not fair to judge it on the basis of things he/she cannot control.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
schlimm I wonder how many posters on this thread have (had, if retired) the experience of every day their on the job time and activity being monitored by the public/customers and letters good and bad being sent up the chain?
I wonder how many posters on this thread have (had, if retired) the experience of every day their on the job time and activity being monitored by the public/customers and letters good and bad being sent up the chain?
Thats the Hospitaility Industry.........BTDT as a Night Manager / Night Auditor also as a Franchise Restaurant owner.
Yes the public can be demanding but the flip side of the coin is that despite what is said in this thread, when client relations gets a negative letter they weigh it against overall feedback. So if Client A writes a scalding letter about health concerns, service being bad, etc. Typically it is only mentioned casually to the employee unless HQ or Customer relations feels there is real substance to it. Yes they will write an apologetic letter back to the customer but it's not like they fire or take action against the employee mentioned in the letter each time.
There were times I was heavily encouraged to write an apologetic letter back to a client from Corporate HQ and as an owner it was my option. I told Corporate hell no on one or two occassions and that I never wanted to serve that customer again...........no repercussions towards me because overall had a 88-90% cust satisfaction rate and a 95 points or higher on health inspections. So Corporate HQ knew I was doing the job and trusted me as they were not flooded with letters only one every once in a while. Same deal with Night Auditor / Night Manager.
Also will say this about complaints from the public. It is very sad to report this but 25-30% of the complaints I found as a restaurant owner were made up or false in an attempt by the complainer to get free food or a future discount. There is one Family in Garland (Arab though ethnicity is not important), who I told them to come back and on their next visit I would give them each a free sandwich. Well they came back with their extended family and each of them ordered the most expensive meal on the menu. I knew their complaint was BS. The entertaining part for me is they thought they were really soaking me financially when in fact the actual cost of their meals in total was $15-20 wholesale and not the $80-100 retail that they thought. Small price to pay to get them to shutup and move on down the line vs trying to argue. They tried the same complaint two weeks later and thats where I drew the line and told them that it seemed they just were not getting the service they wanted here and they probably should find another place to eat instead of repeatedly getting upset.
As usual, well said, schlimm.
I'm a retired HS history teacher with more than my share of honors and awards. But all teachers have somewhere in their files the letters or call records or comments from parents or others who didn't quite cotton to us. At least my principal(s) knew these parents, and knew they had trouble with other teachers, etc. In other words, they were able to consider the source. How unlike the situation car attendants and other train crew folks today find themselves in. And their supervisors have no way of knowing which letter writers are legit and which are cranks. I'd hate to work under such conditions.
Cell phones with video recording capability came out just as I was retiring and I am forever grateful. Imagine being taken out of context and then finding oneself on YouTube!
I have a slight problem tipping someone who is paid union scale railroad wages. Now I have no problem tipping the poor waitress at my corner diner who gets 3.25 an hour and has no benifits. But things have changed from the bad old days of railroad porters and redcaps who were fighting racism and rudeness from Ivy leage college kids who needed someone to wipe there arse as well as clean there clock.
My wife and I are sleeper car riders and are fortunate to take multiple trips every summer. I tip in the dining car as I would in a restaurant. Good service gets rewarded and poor service gets a token. If we have received poor service I don't want the server to think I forgot or just don't tip. Poor service always generates a letter from me to Amtrak with the train #, date and meal and an explanation.
The same goes for sleeper attendants. I do not have a set amt to tip and if I tip, I tip upon detraining. The only reason I would not tip the sleeper attendant is for poor service. First-class service should not mean: 1) you have to continually find the attendant, or 2) the attendant never even bothered to introduce themselves, or 3) the attendant acted like they were being bothered when you made a request. This behavior is always followed by a letter to Amtrak with train #, date and car # (and a name if he/she ever got close enough to read the nametag). On the other hand I am quick to write Amtrak for what I consider to be excellent service or want to commend an outstanding employee.
"The pen is mightier than the sword". Amtrak always responds to my commmunications.
Toronto Fan I agree that tipping is something that should be done when eating in the dining car or utilizing sleeper accommodation. However, and I hate to admit it, I'm finding it harder and harder to tip as the overall quality of service goes downhill. I have no issue tipping restaurant standards for a restaurant-quality experience. However, food that isn't freshly prepared, is served on picnic quality plates and is accompanied by often disinterested personnel is a huge disincentive to tipping a standard 15 - 20%. Too many of us continue to tip because we feel and know that it is the "right thing to do" rather than actually assess the quality of food and service.
I agree that tipping is something that should be done when eating in the dining car or utilizing sleeper accommodation. However, and I hate to admit it, I'm finding it harder and harder to tip as the overall quality of service goes downhill. I have no issue tipping restaurant standards for a restaurant-quality experience. However, food that isn't freshly prepared, is served on picnic quality plates and is accompanied by often disinterested personnel is a huge disincentive to tipping a standard 15 - 20%. Too many of us continue to tip because we feel and know that it is the "right thing to do" rather than actually assess the quality of food and service.
Agree and as I get older I am less and less forgiving of folks over 25 that deliver sloppy service. Tipping is in fact a method of communication after all. It has never been mandatory.
ACY The lounge car attendant does far more than just hand you your drink. Appropriate tips are appreciated by anybody who gives you good service. I've commented on this kind of topic before. Some know that I am retired from Amtrak Onboard service, so I guess I have a dog in this fight, or used to. I don't feel inclined to comment further, except to say that these jobs, and the working conditions, are not quite so cushy as some imagine. Tom, Now that its come out the average wage for on board hospitality personnel is $30 per hour [plus most get some overtime every month] and a total of $45 when fringe benefits are included, I'd say on board personnel are more than adequately compensated for any inconvenience. That information definitely has relieved any guilt on my part for not tipping at all if the service provided is poor--or worse.
The lounge car attendant does far more than just hand you your drink. Appropriate tips are appreciated by anybody who gives you good service.
I've commented on this kind of topic before. Some know that I am retired from Amtrak Onboard service, so I guess I have a dog in this fight, or used to.
I don't feel inclined to comment further, except to say that these jobs, and the working conditions, are not quite so cushy as some imagine.
Maybe time again for some kind of tipper's annomyous cards ?
CMStPnPI think so too and it's best not to reveal the new account name because I believe that individual wants a fresh start. Also, if you happen to guess wrong it starts a whole new foo pah on the threads here.
sam2?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
One of the cardinal rules of the restaurant business which I enforced when I ran a fast casual restaurant. Employees of the restaurant, including the Chef should eat the food off the menu they are serving (no customizations) at least once a day. In fact in the General Manager course I went through they taught the GM they had to taste test / sample the food and rate it at least once a day and keep a log and report their findings back to HQ.
The only time I would get a complaint on a sandwich ever from a customer was when the Grill Chef forgot to season the steak with a salt/pepper mix or when an ingredient was left out that the client ordered. I never got any complaints about cold food, food that tasted like crap or that was not served properly.
I would bet THAT THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN on an Amtrak Dining car a whole lot. Because some of the time I have recieved watery mashed potatoes (are they instant potatos as I suspect?), or food was partially cold and not completely reheated. I do sometimes see the Servers eating in the Cafe Car part of the Dining Car but the food they are eating doesn't always look like what I was served and I am sure they are customizing the menu to match their tastes in some cases.
schlimm I believe sam1 returned under another alias.
I believe sam1 returned under another alias.
I think so too and it's best not to reveal the new account name because I believe that individual wants a fresh start. Also, if you happen to guess wrong it starts a whole new foo pah on the threads here.
[quote user="Deggesty"]Before my first trip which entailed eating in a diner (at fifteen years of age), I knew that when you enter a diner, you wait until you are told where to sit (and it is a matter of courtesy to let the steward or head attendant know how many are in your party), and you do not complain if strangers are seated at the same table with you.
I do not recall when I began noticing passengers who seemingly were unaware of these customs, but it has not been many years since I first noticed such behaviour.[quote]The few times I have ventured to the dining car I have noticed that there is no sign to say "Please wait to be seated" so people that arrive when a server is not there to greet/guide them will just grab the first open table. A notice like this is common enough in restaurants, why Amtrak doesn't do it is beyond me.
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