So recently I was stuck in Rochester, NY. All flights leaving the city were overbooked and my flight was cancelled. The best they could do was offer a flight the next day and that was on a standby status. I pointed out to the Delta ticketing agent that I could board Amtrak's Lake Shore Limited at 11 PM that same night and be in Chicago by roughly 10 a.m. for boarding a flight from O'Hare to Dallas around 1:00 PM. As some of you know, O'Hare is a unsinkable Aircraft carrier for American Airline flights to DFW, with one leaving every 30-60 min.
I told the Delta agent I would assume the complete risk for the connection in Chicago and would pay for the Rochester, NY to Chicago portion. Nothing doing says Delta. They cannot rebook a flight between two airports that distance apart unless I first fly to Chicago from an Airport within 1-2 hours driving time from Rochester, NY. That to me seems silly, especially if the airline system is overbooked with reroutings.
Seems to me the next best step to alliviate the temporary congestion is to go intermodal and start booking intermodal airline/bus or airline/train tickets. Delta stated that is against their policy and that the routing must be primarily air. Which led me to complain directly about the practice in Delta's follow-up survey. Seems somewhat self serving and monopolistic to insist that regardless of the congestion every passenger must remain in the airline system.
CMStPnP Seems somewhat self serving and monopolistic to insist that regardless of the congestion every passenger must remain in the airline system.
Seems somewhat self serving and monopolistic to insist that regardless of the congestion every passenger must remain in the airline system.
Does Delta have an interlining agreement with Amtrak? If not it is far from "monopolistic" or "self serving" to not permit you to take the flight as part of your intinerary. It is no different from Delta not putting you on a Southwest or Allegiant flight, as they do not have interlining agreements with them.
As someone who put themselves through college working for an airline, nothing Delta did seems unordinary or "silly". What I do see in your post is a complete unawareness in how ticketing and interlining agreements work, and a lack of understanding in the use or non use of flight segments.
CMStPnP Which led me to complain directly about the practice in Delta's follow-up survey
Which led me to complain directly about the practice in Delta's follow-up survey
That will show them!
An "expensive model collector"
I agree that's the way things "work". But I think the O.P. has a very good point. If the airline canceled his flight through no fault of his own, then good customer service dictates that they do as much as possible to accommodate him. He has made a very practical and workable suggestion as to how they can do this, and their response was to be too hidebound by their "normal procedures" to adjust and do the sensible thing. A really good customer focus would provide a much better response.
I also understand that the airline industry might want to protect the airline industry by keeping this passenger in the air instead of on the rails. However, they have demonstrated that keeping him in the air does not serve his needs, since THEY canceled the flight that would have served his needs. If that's the way ticketing and interlining agreements work, then they're not working at all in this case.
I'm sure this is not a policy that was determined by the airline's reservation clerks. It goes much higher than that. In his shoes, I would avoid Delta in the future, I would tell all my friends about Delta's inflexibility, and I would tell Delta's President that's what I'm doing. As for myself, it would require an extreme situation to get me on a plane. I don't fly, for much the same reason. I don't like to be treated like a member of a herd.
Maybe someone here knows about a Federal authority that would listen to this complaint? FAA? DOT? Amtrak? Senator? Congressman? Somebody else?
Tom
n012944That will show them!
800,000 Frequent Flyer miles and climbing....I'll bet I have more of an impact than most. Yes, I do know how that works with airlines vs a ordoinary traveling tourist.
I know how interline agreements work and I was not asking for a interline agreement or ticket. I was asking for the freedom to have my reroute departure be Chicago O'Hare vs New York.........that was it. Why the airline has veto power over that is beyond me because if it was a straight purchase they would not give a rip. So to me it looks like: "We've got your money now and you are not getting it back unless you sue". Even with that retort I said OK, I would pay for Rochester to New York out of my own pocket. Give me a Travel Voucher as comp OR give me a one way airline ticket from Chicago to DFW.
Last but not least, they need to have a interline agreement in cases where their flight system is overwhealmed and they cannot otherwise recover in a rapid manner. Why make everyone wait hours or days longer instead of rerouting Albany to New York on Amtrak or Rochester to Chicago on Amtrak. Certainly this was not an issue prior to deregulation of the Airline Industry when repeatedly we would see folks flip over to passenger trains when the airline system was swamped.
Now it is an issue with deregulation? Something is wrong here.
CMStPnP n012944 That will show them! 800,000 Frequent Flyer miles and climbing....I'll bet I have more of an impact than most.
n012944 That will show them!
800,000 Frequent Flyer miles and climbing....I'll bet I have more of an impact than most.
It is cute that you think that....
CMStPnP I know how interline agreements work and I was not asking for a interline agreement or ticket.
I know how interline agreements work and I was not asking for a interline agreement or ticket.
Maybe, but you are do not seem to understand the use or non use of purchased flight segments.
CMStPnP I was asking for the freedom to have my reroute departure be Chicago O'Hare vs New York.........that was it. Why the airline has veto power over that is beyond me
I was asking for the freedom to have my reroute departure be Chicago O'Hare vs New York.........that was it. Why the airline has veto power over that is beyond me
OK, thats right I am on a railfan board<sigh>.
n012944Maybe, but you are do not seem to understand the use or non use of purchased flight segments.
It doesn't matter what you think the current airline practice is, my arguement is it needs to change. Your attitude is that the airlines can do whatever they want rule wise runs contrary to the philosophy of "common carrier" which they operate under. It's why we have a Congress overriding their stupidity on runway tamarac wait times. Because their management does not have the intellect to do it themselves.
n012944Because it is what you agreed to when you purchased the ticket. The fact that is is "beyond you" demonstrates the lack of understanding of airline ticketing rules. You had the "freedom" to get a full refund for your Delta flight had you cancelled your entire itinerary and paid out of pocket for both the Amtrak segment and the AA ORD-DFW segment. The fact you were looking for a travel voucher, or a "comp" shows to me there was some shenanigans going on here. In fact, the entire post reeks a bit of entitlement.
Wrong again. Delta refused to refund the unused portion of the ticket as I attempted that. They would only credit it towards a future flight. (Psst: Guess I am not the only one lacking understanding here...huh?). The credit of the unused ticket on Delta has to be done outside the Gate Agent they do not have authorization to do that with most Business travelers as their tickets are reserved through an approved agency and that would be an avenue for potential fraud by the ticket holder (Psst: I guess you missed that as well in your airline training).
So back to the route, rerouting. The rule cited again has zero to do with interline agreements. The rule cited had to do with distance between departure airports on original ticket vs new ticket. I know because I was there and I asked specifically as an experienced business traveler and not some former airline employee. The gate agent WAS rerouting Rochester, NY departure point passengers from Albany, NY, from Buffalo, NY without providing any transportation to those airports but merely accepting the fact the passenger would get there by rental car or bus (again inability of Delta to book directly on alternate means). They stated O'Hare was too far away for them to issue O'Hare to DFW ticket.
Thanks for your patronizing response but I guess you have some learning or catching up to do on current airline business practices.
ACY I also understand that the airline industry might want to protect the airline industry by keeping this passenger in the air instead of on the rails.
I also understand that the airline industry might want to protect the airline industry by keeping this passenger in the air instead of on the rails.
Which is far from the truth. As I already pointed out, I worked for an airline for a while, and it was not unusual to use a bus to get passengers to their final destination. Thunderstorms in and around Chicago resulting in ATC flow control? ORD-SBN passengers get a ticket on Coach USA, ORD-PIA get a ticket on Peoria Charter Coach, and so on...
ACY Maybe someone here knows about a Federal authority that would listen to this complaint? FAA? DOT? Amtrak? Senator? Congressman? Somebody else?
Why would anyone care? It was the OP's insistence that he get a one way ticket from a city pair that started 600 miles west that set off red flags. Someone with "800K" Sky Pesos should know that already.
CMStPnP OK, thats right I am on a railfan board<sigh>.
Why don't you post your problem on Airliners.net and see what the response is. They will make mine look tame...
Or better yet, Flyertalk, they will have fun with you.
BTW, if you have such a problem with posting on a "railfan board", then why post here? I
CMStPnP The credit of the unused ticket on Delta has to be done outside the Gate Agent they do not have authorization to do that with most Business travelers as their tickets are reserved through an approved agency and that would be an avenue for potential fraud by the ticket holder (Psst: I guess you missed that as well in your airline training).
I gave refunds all the time, of course I didn't work for Delta...
CMStPnP I know because I was there and I asked specifically as an experienced business traveler
That and a five dollar bill will get you a Starbucks coffee. An "experianced buisness traveler" means nothing. That remark however, does also reek of entitlement.
CMStPnP They stated O'Hare was too far away for them to issue O'Hare to DFW ticket.
They stated O'Hare was too far away for them to issue O'Hare to DFW ticket.
As I pointed out in my response to ACY.....
The fact remains, if Delta thinks this is service to their customer, then they need to reevaluate their definition of customer service, since they created the problem by canceling his flight in the first place. The customer is not their servant.
ACY The fact remains, if Delta thinks this is service to their customer, then they need to reevaluate their definition of customer service, since they created the problem by canceling his flight in the first place. The customer is not their servant. Tom
How do you know that it was Delta's fault the flight was cancelled. The OP never posted the reason why the flight was cancelled. That area has had a lot of weather this winter...
The whole topic is inappropriate, need to address your complaints with delta. Sorry your feelings got hurt.
It was multiple mechanical and equipment problems impacting Delta at once plus Spring Break crowds. n012944 is applying rules that he remembers from dealing with the tourist crowd. Most of them do not apply to the business traveler and some of them no longer exist. So take his input for what it is worth.....a look back in history but not really applicable to this scenario.
Has zero clue on how the rules are different for business passengers or frequent flyers from airline to airline.
ROBERT WILLISON The whole topic is inappropriate, need to address your complaints with delta. Sorry your feelings got hurt.
Intermodalism as it pertains to Amtrak and rail passenger service is appropriate to this board. If your unsure then contact a Moderator, don't pretend to be one.
Not pretending just saying.
The customer did not cancel the flight.
The weather did not cancel the flight.
The crowds of seasonal passengers did not cancel the flight.
The mechanical problems did not cancel the flight.
Who's left? Delta canceled the flight, no matter the reason. Delta is supposedly in business to serve their customers. Sometimes it's difficult to provide the service, but it's a job they willingly took on. They failed.
CMStPnP n012944 is applying rules that he remembers from dealing with the tourist crowd. Most of them do not apply to the business traveler and some of them no longer exist. So take his input for what it is worth.....a look back in history but not really applicable to this scenario. Has zero clue on how the rules are different for business passengers or frequent flyers from airline to airline.
n012944 is applying rules that he remembers from dealing with the tourist crowd. Most of them do not apply to the business traveler and some of them no longer exist. So take his input for what it is worth.....a look back in history but not really applicable to this scenario.
Wow, so not only are you a world traveler, but a historian on my employment history. I think this is where I will stop, since your ignorance is really showing and getting in the way of having a conversation. Working the Global Service desk is not "dealing with tourists". It is dealing with passengers who make you look like a Priceline "name your price" traveler. As I said, take you argument to Flyertalk or Airliners.net and report back the responses. Somehow I do not think that I should hold my breath for that....
n012944 CMStPnP OK, thats right I am on a railfan board<sigh>. Why don't you post your problem on Airliners.net and see what the response is. They will make mine look tame... Or better yet, Flyertalk, they will have fun with you. BTW, if you have such a problem with posting on a "railfan board", then why post here? I CMStPnP The credit of the unused ticket on Delta has to be done outside the Gate Agent they do not have authorization to do that with most Business travelers as their tickets are reserved through an approved agency and that would be an avenue for potential fraud by the ticket holder (Psst: I guess you missed that as well in your airline training). I gave refunds all the time, of course I didn't work for Delta... CMStPnP I know because I was there and I asked specifically as an experienced business traveler That and a five dollar bill will get you a Starbucks coffee. An "experianced buisness traveler" means nothing. That remark however, does also reek of entitlement. CMStPnP They stated O'Hare was too far away for them to issue O'Hare to DFW ticket. As I pointed out in my response to ACY.....
I think on this forum is right where CMStPnP belongs. His complaint about Delta did have the tie-in to Amtrak. It's nO12944 who sounds like he might be more at home on Airliners.net or wherever.
With his attitude, he could probably even get his old job back.
I don't understand the tie in between Delta and Amtrak. Amtrak list United air lines as a partner and having inter line ticketing codes. I don't see delta listed nor can I find any reference to Amtrak in any lists of of delta partners.
No12944 is just stating his opinion, I don't see it as being anti Amtrak or anti rail. We all got to play nice.
n012944Wow, so not only are you a world traveler, but a historian on my employment history. I think this is where I will stop, since your ignorance is really showing and getting in the way of having a conversation. Working the Global Service desk is not "dealing with tourists". It is dealing with passengers who make you look like a Priceline "name your price" traveler. As I said, take you argument to Flyertalk or Airliners.net and report back the responses. Somehow I do not think that I should hold my breath for that....
Why wouldn't I just speak with Delta representatives when they call me back on the survey? Why would I go to another board full of like minded people like yourself that are basically guessing what happened instead of asking. It just does not make sense to me. Alternatively, I can used LinkedIn where I can actually see the resume of whom I am talking to vs someone telling me their resume. Professionalism there is a little higher as well.
IMO, you do not have a whole lot of experience with business travelers based on your comments. I was being generous there with that comment. Both my Brother and Sister-In-Law worked for America West airlines and I do know a big part of what you stated has zero to do with the topic or scenario, your just wanting to argue. I am surprised you didn't mention the Warsaw treaty.....equally irrelevant in this case. It's great you know all that stuff you wrote about but most of it is not applicable to this travel scenario. Sorry that puts you in a huff BUT again I am the guy with the miles and travel more than you do. Your the guy recollecting how things were when you were in college.........and who knows how long ago that was.
Here is a tip next time for online interaction. Ask a little bit more for details first about what happened before leaping to wild conclusions. It really helps the forum discourse and understanding.
I would have thought bluestreak1 could have shed some light on this controversy in terms of current airline practice and from a high enough level to know. I personally do know from experience and from a friend in corporate at American Air that the treatment you get when cancellations occur depends on what you know to ask for. It isn't automatic.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
ROBERT WILLISON I don't understand the tie in between Delta and Amtrak. Amtrak list United air lines as a partner and having inter line ticketing codes. I don't see delta listed nor can I find any reference to Amtrak in any lists of of delta partners. No12944 is just stating his opinion, I don't see it as being anti Amtrak or anti rail. We all got to play nice.
The topic was intermodalism between Delta and Amtrak. Specifically in cases where one is overbooked and cannot efficiently handle it's passenger load.
An interline agreement is a joint marketing arrangement where one carrier is able to book on another via their reservation system on regular basis as part of normal travel. You do not need an interline agreement to resolve this issue anymore than a Hotel that walks guests when it is overbooked needs a joint marketing arrangement with the other Hotel. Thats where the opposing view got lost in the woods.
schlimm I would have thought bluestreak1 could have shed some light on this controversy in terms of current airline practice and from a high enough level to know. I personally do know from experience and from a friend in corporate at American Air that the treatment you get when cancellations occur depends on what you know to ask for. It isn't automatic.
American would have used my FF status to bounce another passenger (actually get them to volunteer) on a later flight out the same day by offerring travel vouchers to the other passenger. Delta FF status rules might be the same but my FF status and miles are with American .....not so much with Delta probably would not do that. However, because I was a member of Delta FF club and had some miles and the agent knew I was a Business Traveler. I was advanced to #1 on the standby list the next day.........while those that negotiated before me were set behind me in line on the standby list (standby list are not necessarily FIFO as it used to be in the older days, they are now based on FF status and your status as a customer......hence the earlier comment "it's cute if you think that matters" shows the previous viewpoint has been out of it for a while). Not saying that is good or bad just saying again, the rules are slightly different for business travelers and FF.
So can you can explain how the process works for us less in formed. How does a delta gate or service rep book on other carriers or have access to other carriers reservation systems?
ROBERT WILLISON So can you can explain how the process works for us less in formed. How does a delta gate or service rep book on other carriers or have access to other carriers reservation systems?
In most cases of other U.S. airlines they do but in the cases they do not...........like say an overseas carrier. They have a phone number to call and the person on the other end of the line does the reservation work for them.
I do gotta say, Milw, especially since you had the leisure to do Amtrak Rochester to Chicago as your backup: This whole unhappy episode could have been avoided if you had booked Amtrak to start!
And what is a good railroad fan doing with all those frequent-flyer miles to begin with?
I never seen an airline bounce a ticketed passenger to fullfill a stand by passenger needs. They often entice passengers with vouchers for future travel, food coupons, First class tickets on a later flight and/ or a night in a local hotel.
dakotafred I do gotta say, Milw, especially since you had the leisure to do Amtrak Rochester to Chicago as your backup: This whole unhappy episode could have been avoided if you had booked Amtrak to start! And what is a good railroad fan doing with all those frequent-flyer miles to begin with?
Well if it was liesure travel I would have.
Here are the restrictions to business travel in the case of my current employer, this is different from employer to employer as well.
1. Have to use the approved travel agency and they book the flights. The ticket is charged to a Corporate Direct Bill account and hence a gate agent cannot issue a refund to the traveling passenger, I have to rebook via travel agency to get the refund. The gate agent can only reroute or issue a travel credit for future travel which is applied the next time I travel. Most employers charge to my credit card and so I do not have the restriction on refunds as I do with this employer. In the case of IBM they lock the reservation completely and only American Express can change it.......airline is locked out of changes unless the travel agency unlocks it for them. Not with IBM anymore, so happy that nonsense is over.
2. The travel agency searches for the lowest available airfare per the contract with the employer and they typically select an Airline unless travel is between Northeast Corridor cities in which they might offer Amtrak, they would only do that because I have my Guest Rewards number in my profile. Otherwise they would not mention Amtrak as an alternative. Hence I got stuck on a Delta flight vs American because Delta was low bidding at the time vs American.
3. I had approval for the Amtrak leg via my boss so I had the ability to override the contraints of the travel agency by telling them that. However the approval was conditional that I fly out of Chicago as my boss was not going to pay Chicago to Dallas on Amtrak. So Amtrak travel plans collapsed as soon as Delta refused to play ball. Hence it is why I am posting here because I see that restriction as a anti-competitive measure in a way. I understand the other reason they do it is concern over connection time and another missed flight in Chicago. BTW, the gate agent actually did try to book ORD to DFW and thats when the flags went up on the Delta system and she tried to call it in. So she didn't know any better until she was told with me standing there.
Had to pay an additional $158 for overnight stay at Hotel because of Delta. Delta does not have to comp for hotel if the last flight out for the day is cancelled.....another rule. So the one way Amtrak Coach fare was $70, One way roomette was $303.
One airport travel tip. If you guys can afford $100 buy the TSA Pre-Check frequent traveler security deal. Saves tons of time at O'Hare and other busy airports, they give you a 9 digit code and you enter it in your airline profile and you can bypass most of the security nonsense of the TSA. I have not removed my shoes or coat or laptop from my bag in almost a year. It's $100 for 5 years and the nine digit code gets your boarding pass to read PRE-CHCK.....which gets you to the gate 25-45 min sooner during rush hours.
May have been a shortage of crew but getting any airline to admit same is difficult.
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