The first blast of winter weather has caused all Albany - west New York Amtrak trips to be cancelled. Included is west bound LSL from NYP> The 5 feet of snow around Buffalo is the culprit. Texas eagle #21 also cancelled from Chicago. Weather ?
East bound Lake Shore today was 5 + hr late into Buffalo and 9 + hours late from Rochester 61 miles.
Amtrak cancelled Empire route thru Wedensday.
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&cid=1251627177160
blue streak 1 Amtrak cancelled Empire route thru Wedensday. http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&cid=1251627177160
Now I know why the Texas Eagle - Number 21 - is showing information unavailable due to a service disruption.
I wonder how much snow it took to cause Amtrak to cancel Number 21. As a kid growing up in Altoona, I was not stranger to severe winter weather. If I remember correctly, there were days when the PRR's varnish fell behind due to snow, but there were not many of them. And cancellations were few and far between.
One day, during my last year in high school, which would have been 1957, I had a ticket to go from Altoona to New York. My train was the Admiral, which I believe was Number 50. By 6:00 a.m. snow had piled up to the point where my father could barely get the car out to drive me to the station. Bue he did it. And whilst the Admiral was three hours late, it showed up eventually. And I got to Penn Station at a reasonable hour.
If Amtrak has to cancel its trains because of snow, it makes me wonder how important it is for America's intercity commercial passenger system.
Today's Class 1 carriers do not have the legions of MofW employees with shovels, brooms and ice chippers that kept the lines open and operative in times gone by. With nearly all Main Lines being remotely operated by CTC systems - switch and signal failure with bad weather can be catastrophic on the lines affected by blizzard type conditions. Under such conditions, even if personnel can be contacted to respond to the problem - their own ability to reach the affected location is also hampered by the storm (Maintaners & MofW personnel no longer live right at their work locations).
Amtrak rather than be criticized for having hundreds of passengers stuck in the middle of nowhere for a indeterminate amount of time features that it is better to curtail service. No worse than airlines cancelling flights account weather issues.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Right on back in the day labor was cheap. Its all about the bottom line for the railroads and of course safety.
BaltACD Amtrak rather than be criticized for having hundreds of passengers stuck in the middle of nowhere for a indeterminate amount of time features that it is better to curtail service. No worse than airlines cancelling flights account weather issues.
blue streak 1 BaltACD Amtrak rather than be criticized for having hundreds of passengers stuck in the middle of nowhere for a indeterminate amount of time features that it is better to curtail service. No worse than airlines cancelling flights account weather issues. BALT is so correct !
Stop with the airline analogy! More people ride these
trains between intermeadiate stations that have no
other transportation options.
nyc#25 Stop with the airline analogy! More people ride these trains between intermeadiate stations that have no other transportation options.
Safety for passengers, then!
error
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Name one community served by Amtrak that does not have a highway. Name the communities served by Amtrak that don't have or could not have intercity bus service.
If Amtrak's long distance trains are vital for the nation's commercial passenger transport needs, how come the following Texas cities with populations of more than 100,000, to illustrate just one state, don't have Amtrak service: Abilene, Amarillo, Brownsville, Corpus Christi, Laredo, McAllen, Lubbock, Midland, Odessa, and Wichita Falls.
Amtrak's long distance train system could go away tomorrow and most Americans would not even know it. Having said that passengers trains make sense in relatively short, high density corridors where the cost to expand the highways and airways is prohibitive.
It's *just* a different world today. For example, as I grew up, schools wouldn't shut down because of cold and snow. I remember being a patrol boy in 5th grade, out covering an intersection on 20 below mornings, making sure kids were protected as they crossed busy streets walking to school. Today, you've got kids being bussed to school. Schools close even before forecasted storms hit. The liability issues involved outweigh everything else.
Amtrak continuing cancellations with no indication when service will start back up.
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&cid=1251627181506
blue streak 1 Amtrak continuing cancellations with no indication when service will start back up. http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&cid=1251627181506
Weather is predicting another 2 feet around Buffalo in the next day.
It is still early but any one know if the modified Amtrak DC motored locos are doing better in the snow this year ? GE claimed new traction motors will not short out as much in the snow ?
There are communities served by the Empire Builder that are really isolated in winter when that train is cancelled.
Very limited service Albany - Buffalo friday. Maple Leaf both ways amd LSL originating out of NYP. Mostly sold out. Could be Amtrak anicipated fewer passengers than actually desire transportation or CSX limitations ? Could more cars be added to LSL and Maple leaf ?
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&cid=1251627189955
OMG. Please don't forget Bryan/College Station, Tyler, Sherman/Denison, Victoria, or San Angelo (which has no Interstate highway). Texas is ripe for the picking.
South Texas OMG. Please don't forget Bryan/College Station, Tyler, Sherman/Denison, Victoria, or San Angelo (which has no Interstate highway). Texas is ripe for the picking.
I used the 2010 U.S. Census Data, which is based on an actual count, as opposed to the 2013 data, which is a statistical estimate. The 100,000 cut-off was arbitrary.
I wanted to illustrate why I believe the argument that Amtrak is an important link in the nation's commercial passenger transport system is wrong.
If the national train system is an important link in the nation's passenger transport scheme, how come they don't serve every city in the United States with a population above a trigger point, i.e. population of 100,000?
I did not consider a Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area or combined areas. Moreover, I did not include any cities that were within a reasonable driving distance of an Amtrak station.
In 2010 the population of San Angelo was 97,492; Tyler was 96,945, Victoria was 62,601, Bryan was 76,218, and College Station was 94,063. The combined population of Sherman/Denison or the other way around in 2010 was 61,019.
Sam1I did not consider a Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area or combined areas. Moreover, I did not include any cities that were within a reasonable driving distance of an Amtrak station. In 2010 the population of San Angelo was 97,492; Tyler was 96,945, Victoria was 62,601, Bryan was 76,218, and College Station was 94,063. The combined population of Sherman/Denison or the other way around in 2010 was 61,019.
Why would you choose to not use Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSAs) or even Combined Statistical Areas? That is the basis normally used for planning.
San Angelo MSA 116,823.
Tyler MSA 209,714 in 2010.
Victoria MSA 111,163.
Bryan-College Station MSA around 190,000 people.
Sherman–Denison MSA 110,595.
schlimm Sam1 I did not consider a Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area or combined areas. Moreover, I did not include any cities that were within a reasonable driving distance of an Amtrak station. In 2010 the population of San Angelo was 97,492; Tyler was 96,945, Victoria was 62,601, Bryan was 76,218, and College Station was 94,063. The combined population of Sherman/Denison or the other way around in 2010 was 61,019. Why would you choose to not use Metropolitan Statistical Areas (MSAs) or even Combined Statistical Areas? That is the basis normally used for planning. San Angelo MSA 116,823. Tyler MSA 209,714 in 2010. Victoria MSA 111,163. Bryan-College Station MSA around 190,000 people. Sherman–Denison MSA 110,595.
Sam1 I did not consider a Standard Metropolitan Statistical Area or combined areas. Moreover, I did not include any cities that were within a reasonable driving distance of an Amtrak station. In 2010 the population of San Angelo was 97,492; Tyler was 96,945, Victoria was 62,601, Bryan was 76,218, and College Station was 94,063. The combined population of Sherman/Denison or the other way around in 2010 was 61,019.
For planning purposes the SMSA would be more definitive. However, I was not planning Amtrak service.
I referenced the cities in Texas with populations of at least 100,000, where the train stations are or would be located, to make a point.
Those who argue that Amtrak's long distance trains are important for the nation never justify the absence of service to so many sizeable communities in Texas and the nation. If the service is important for the U.S., than all the country's sizeable communities should be served.
Use whatever population number you like to set the cut-off or define sizeable. I could just as easily have used 50,000 or 25,000 or any other number.
Agreed. There are several large cities/MSAs that are not served by any passenger rail services. Examples include Phoenix, Las Vegas, Columbus and Nashville. Apparently for those who claim LD services are vital in some manner, the residents of those locations and others don't count.
schlimm Agreed. There are several large cities/MSAs that are not served by any passenger rail services. Examples include Phoenix, Las Vegas, Columbus and Nashville. Apparently for those who claim LD services are vital in some manner, the residents of those locations and others don't count.
Johnny
This thread has drifted far afield.
For those of you who want to debate start a thread based on cities. Many factors. Acess, weather, station desireability, Location desireability, Available of other modes of transportation, number of trains thru station, population density, etc
Extreme examples are Williston 51k passengers 25 mile pop 20K many of empire builder passengers go from small stations to near end points. Bad station Atlanta 11.5k pass 25mile pop 3.4M gets very few compared to say Tampa. Many Silver servicce Florida go inter - Florida. Census updates needed.
NARP has a site that gives more than anyone would want to know about any station, route, 9 most traveled, etc. Have fun
http://www.narprail.org/amtrak-ridership-statistics.html
blue streak 1 This thread has drifted far afield. For those of you who want to debate start a thread based on cities. Many factors. Acess, weather, station desireability, Location desireability, Available of other modes of transportation, number of trains thru station, population density, etc Extreme examples are Williston 51k passengers 25 mile pop 20K many of empire builder passengers go from small stations to near end points. Bad station Atlanta 11.5k pass 25mile pop 3.4M gets very few compared to say Tampa. Many Silver servicce Florida go inter - Florida. Census updates needed. NARP has a site that gives more than anyone would want to know about any station, route, 9 most traveled, etc. Have fun http://www.narprail.org/amtrak-ridership-statistics.html http://www.narprail.org/amtrak-ridership-statistics.html
The points about Atlanta and tampa are ---
1. Tampa only has one train a day each way.
2. The Metropolitan population for Tampa - St. Pete is much smaller than Atlanta.
Anyway write most posts with questions to get all posters to realize that there is much to question.
Tampa-St.Pete MSA = 2.78 mil.; Atlanta MSA = 5.52 mil. so yes, Atlanta is twice as large, but Tampa is hardly much smaller. Also, though only two trains daily, Tampa also has a good Amtrak bus connection for the Silver Meteor. In any case the numbers you cited for Atlanta vs Williston were very inaccurate.
Threads have drifted far afield since I engaged in the discussions on Trains' forums and blogs.
It appears that the NARP statistics are pulled from Amtrak's fact sheets, although they provide greater historical depth.
Now for a weather question. The Buffalo area, according to the news reports, has received as much as seven feet of snow. What type of snow removal equipment would CSX have in the area to clear the snow off of its tracks?
Sam1It appears that the NARP statistics are pulled from Amtrak's fact sheets, although they provide greater historical depth.
The Amtrak fact sheet for Atlanta shows 99K boardings and alightings. NARP shows 95K. The difference is small, but it should be identical, suggesting NARP's numbers are unreliable. blue streak1's number for Atlanta was far off the mark and I have no clue from where it was obtained.
I'm curious. If being 2.74 million less in population is not "much smaller", what exactly would you consider "much smaller"?
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