The above route sounds plausible as a detour but it doesn't look like it would make up any lost time.
Well Amtrak could run South Bend/GTW to Griffith, IN entering the former EJ&E there(it's a straight thru route) thence to Matteson around the new connector loop to the IC thence downtown to the St. Charles Air Line into CUS. They could add stops at Valpo and possibly Dyer or even Chicago Heights IL.
blue streak 1 STB issues another call for service metrics of NS's Amtrak performance. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/10/feds_ask_norfolk_southern_to_e.html
STB issues another call for service metrics of NS's Amtrak performance.
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/10/feds_ask_norfolk_southern_to_e.html
Metrics - schmetrics. Everybody and their brother knows the numbers are bad. The question is WHY? Bad numbers don't explain themselves and give a path to fix the problem(s).
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Network Rail is essentially a government corporation, unlike the private Railtrack, and seems to have a much better record than its private predecessor. According to the European Rail Agency, in 2013 Britain had the safest railway based on number of train safety incidents. For the US, I suggested basically the same thing, which is essentally what Germany and France have as well.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
[quote]
schlimm If the infrastructure (RoW) were owned and maintained by a quasi-governmental agency with safe funding sources (ten-year appropriations and user-fees from operators), these questions and problems would not exist.
If the infrastructure (RoW) were owned and maintained by a quasi-governmental agency with safe funding sources (ten-year appropriations and user-fees from operators), these questions and problems would not exist.
What you are advocating is essentially the British (and to a certain extent the European) model. This is only partially jokingly referred to as vertical disintegration. My former team and I (I am now retired) have worked in and about the British Railway business as consultants since 2000. In fact I was brought over to London to help deal with the post Hatfield meltdown in October 2000. During the ensuing years we worked for Railtrack, something then known as "the company limited by guarantee" (which later became Network Rail), Network Rail, RSSB ORR and Virgin West Coast so I can say I've seen this system in action up close and personal. And arguably this sort of setup might solve these relatively minor local issues discussed here, but it would replace them with far more serious issues nationwide.
I won't drone on and on about the topic but will tell you that establishing something like this in North America would be something of a disaster and is not going to get any support from these quarters.
BTW the root cause finding committee for the Hatfield derailment blamed the structure of the privatization of BR for about 50% of the related issues.
rcdrye Went back to my maps. The CN/GTW crosses the UP's ex C&EI/C&WI route used by the Cardinal and Hoosier State at Thornton Jct - a better route. In fact CN is used from the former Monon to Thornton Jct.
Went back to my maps. The CN/GTW crosses the UP's ex C&EI/C&WI route used by the Cardinal and Hoosier State at Thornton Jct - a better route. In fact CN is used from the former Monon to Thornton Jct.
The UP from Thornton Junction is a better route? That segment of the Cardinal/Hoosier State is the source of the long running time and delays that those trains encounter. They virtually creep through Yard Center and also have slow operating speeds at 75th St. Note that they take almost a hour and 15 minutes to go the 30 miles between Union Station and Dyer on the outbound trip and an hour 30 on the inbound. That is the reason Amtrak is considering operating them via the IC. Sometimes it takes more than a map to understand things.
It is no longer owned by the CN, it has been in CSX's hands since June 2013.
An "expensive model collector"
Buslist rcdrye An easier reroute than South Shore would be CN(GTW) from South Bend to Harvey IL, then CN(IC) to the St Charles Air Line. The stop at South Bend would be a casualty, as NS and CN connect east of the station. Two problems I see here. One is that the connection at Harvey is not very good particularly on the IC end. Amtrak has occasionally operated the Cardinal/Hoosier this way. They have indicated to me that they have considered funding improvements to this connection to avoid Yard Center permanently. But the second problem might be how receptive the CN would be to this. They are not exactly Amtrak friendly. BTW on a recent Hoosier trip the short GTW segment was the best riding track on the trip.
rcdrye An easier reroute than South Shore would be CN(GTW) from South Bend to Harvey IL, then CN(IC) to the St Charles Air Line. The stop at South Bend would be a casualty, as NS and CN connect east of the station.
An easier reroute than South Shore would be CN(GTW) from South Bend to Harvey IL, then CN(IC) to the St Charles Air Line. The stop at South Bend would be a casualty, as NS and CN connect east of the station.
Two problems I see here. One is that the connection at Harvey is not very good particularly on the IC end. Amtrak has occasionally operated the Cardinal/Hoosier this way. They have indicated to me that they have considered funding improvements to this connection to avoid Yard Center permanently. But the second problem might be how receptive the CN would be to this. They are not exactly Amtrak friendly.
BTW on a recent Hoosier trip the short GTW segment was the best riding track on the trip.
blue streak 1 Question ? Since Amtrak is chartering these buses is someone from the Thruway bus division setting up these buses and monitoring them for proper maintenance ?
Question ?
Since Amtrak is chartering these buses is someone from the Thruway bus division setting up these buses and monitoring them for proper maintenance ?
I would be surprised if Amtrak doesn't already have standing arrangements with reliable charter bus operators around the country for those emergencies when a train can not operate. Maintenance should be monitored by FMCSA.
daveklepperisn't riding a bus better than another four hour delay?
Since Amtrak is chartering these buses is someone from the Thruway bus division setting up these buses and monitoring them for proper maintenance ? Also a 5-1/2 hr each way for a driver would seem to violate HOS rules if any delay at all ? That is not even counting waiting time at rail stations ?
rcdrye An easier reroute than South Shore would be CN(GTW) from South Bend to Harvey IL, then CN(IC) to the St Charles Air Line. The stop at South Bend would be a casualty, as NS and CN connect east of the station. Amtrak HAS run Michigan trains on the South Shore, but Superliners on the Capitol might be an issue.
An easier reroute than South Shore would be CN(GTW) from South Bend to Harvey IL, then CN(IC) to the St Charles Air Line. The stop at South Bend would be a casualty, as NS and CN connect east of the station. Amtrak HAS run Michigan trains on the South Shore, but Superliners on the Capitol might be an issue.
I presume the Amtrak Michigan trains were off the Wolverine line, as the Pere Marquette service (CSX) connection in Michigan City appears severed on Google Earth. The Wolverines could connect to the South Shore line using the freight line in Michigan City, and avoid street trackage running and the "S" curve. This could potentially remove 8 of the 14 ATK trains per day that use the NS bottleneck.
oltmannd No work at Porter today...let's see what happens.
No work at Porter today...let's see what happens.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
It may be that NS is winding down work for 2014 on this route. However if there is going to be much scheduled work in 2015 SOB - CHI then Amtrak and NS should work out the logistics now to detour on SS when necessary. That way all could be very competetive timing ? Note previous item about this routing.
blue streak 1 South Bend to Chicago on the south shore might work very well. Amtrak schedules on NS is ~ 1:30 both ways. The South Shore schedules are 1 :45. Add :15 to get to / from Union station over the St. Charles line will give only a half hour longer. If the connection just west of South Bend station can be used ( or restored ) ?. If NS can notify Amtrak and SS that there will be delays then route the Amtraks onto the SS. How much single track is on the SS now so Amtrak could follow one of their commuter trains ? Weekends should not be a problem for pilots but weekdays might be a problem ? To prevent SS balking a directed service order from the STB & FRA would speed re route ? Amtak crews might be able to qualify quickly since there should be at least some extra board crews ?
South Bend to Chicago on the south shore might work very well. Amtrak schedules on NS is ~ 1:30 both ways. The South Shore schedules are 1 :45. Add :15 to get to / from Union station over the St. Charles line will give only a half hour longer. If the connection just west of South Bend station can be used ( or restored ) ?. If NS can notify Amtrak and SS that there will be delays then route the Amtraks onto the SS.
How much single track is on the SS now so Amtrak could follow one of their commuter trains ? Weekends should not be a problem for pilots but weekdays might be a problem ? To prevent SS balking a directed service order from the STB & FRA would speed re route ?
Amtak crews might be able to qualify quickly since there should be at least some extra board crews ?
aricat Amtrak is broke and can't be repaired. Anyone who is serious about passengers trains between Chicago and the East Coast should support something along the lines of TGV built from scratch with private capital.
Amtrak is broke and can't be repaired. Anyone who is serious about passengers trains between Chicago and the East Coast should support something along the lines of TGV built from scratch with private capital.
We can dream ... but investors, unfortunately, aren't lining up to take on that project.
Dakguy201 Another problem with these large delays in the cascade effect. Yesterday, the Builder left Chicago at 4:25 (2:10 late), the Zephyr at 4:27 (2:27 late) and the Chief left at 4:23 (1:23 late). The close spacing of the departures indicates they were being held for the arrival of one or both of the eastern trains.
Another problem with these large delays in the cascade effect. Yesterday, the Builder left Chicago at 4:25 (2:10 late), the Zephyr at 4:27 (2:27 late) and the Chief left at 4:23 (1:23 late). The close spacing of the departures indicates they were being held for the arrival of one or both of the eastern trains.
Johnny
aricat I vowed in 2000 that I would never ride Amtrak's Capitol Limited or any other Amtrak train east of Chicago again. You would think after 44 years Amtrak could get this right. I would have been better off getting off at Elkhart,
I vowed in 2000 that I would never ride Amtrak's Capitol Limited or any other Amtrak train east of Chicago again. You would think after 44 years Amtrak could get this right. I would have been better off getting off at Elkhart,
I vowed in 2000 that I would never ride Amtrak's Capitol Limited or any other Amtrak train east of Chicago again. You would think after 44 years Amtrak could get this right. I would have been better off getting off at Elkhart, renting a car and driving to Chicago than crawl into Chicago's Union Station on the Capitol Limited from Elkhart. I paid a lot of money for a sleeper. This is a train that operates between our Nation's Capital and our third largest city. Could you imagine SNCF operating a train like the Capitol Limited between Paris and Lyon? I can't. Amtrak is broke and can't be repaired. Anyone who is serious about passengers trains between Chicago and the East Coast should support something along the lines of TGV built from scratch with private capital. Let NS haul freight and the South Shore transport commuters. Do we have to read about the same old problems with Amtrak 20 years from now. I think not!
The Capitol is in the conga line four deep at Porter. The LSL made it through the mess at CP412 and is approaching Elkhart.
South Shore is single track east of Gary with long sidings with spring switches. The junction with the Illinois Central is partially single track.
Today was much better. Porter was more fluid. Apparently, not as much track was under the control of the work gang.
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