Those who have been following the thread regarding NS's meltdown in northern Indiana (for that's what it is) must be wondering, as I am, a few things regarding Amtrak management.
First, why not turn and service the Lake Shore Limited and the Capitol Limited at Cleveland? Since the problems on NS are west of the Forest City, why not bus passengers from Chicago to their waiting train in Cleveland (or Toledo, for that matter)? Whatever the costs to Amtrak they must be preferable to losing passengers forever who in their anger and frustration vow never to travel via Amtrak again.
Second, why no Service Alert or any kind of warning to passengers on those two trains that they will arrive awfully late? As an example, instead of arriving at NYP at an already-stupid hour of 6:35 PM, #48 pulled in at 4:38 AM this morning. Care to speculate about the mood of all aboard that train? Imagine being dumped on the streets of Manhattan at that hour! How many times was the name of the Lord invoked on #48 yesterday? Similar delays are affecting arrival times on both ends, every day with no end in sight. For the love of Mike, why not just tell people?
I should think that Amtrak's indifference to the fate of their paying passengers would be grounds for a lawsuit under the terms of the Geneva Convention as well as the Eighth Amendment.
Who should we call in Washington to get these points across?
All too true. Amtrak lacks the ability to come up with creative solutions. But the bigger picture has several components: 1. The meltdown of NS E-W line is the tip of the iceberg of impending systemic inadequacies. 2. Trying to run any kind of rational passenger service on the tracks of a hostile host freight line is not going to work. Incompatible goals and practices.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
this poster feels that there may be a way to mitigate this problem. Would any of these work ? There are 3 possible ways ? Most delay seems to be happening west of South Bend ?
1. Route train onto the South Shore from South Bend to Chicago. Probably a directed service order from the STB & FRA would mitigate any South Shore reluctance ?. A restored connection west of South Bend would speed the transition. St. Charles airline into Union station would only require a back up move. Probably all crews are qualified on that portion since the City of New Orleans uses this route. South Shore should have enough spare engineers for pilots until Amtrak qualified ?
2. Turn trains at Porter ? Some one who knows the area should let us know if there is parking places there for laying over trains and passenger transfer. Cleaning and catering some what doubtful ?
3. Turn trains at Toledo. Plenty of platform and station track space and able to clean and cater .
4. Cleveland not good as parking of lay over trains very limited.
blue streak 1 this poster feels that there are 3 possible solutions. Most delay seems to be happening west of South Bend ? 1. Route train onto the South Shore from South Bend to Chicago. Probably a directed service order from the STB & FRA would mitigate any South Shore reluctance ?. A restored connection west of South Bend would speed the transition. St. Charles airline into Union station would only require a back up move. Probably all crews are qualified on that portion since the City of New Orleans uses this route. South Shore should have enough spare engineers for pilots until Amtrak qualified ? 2. Turn trains at Porter ? Some one who knows the area should let us know if there is parking places there for laying over trains and passenger transfer. Cleaning and catering some what doubtful ?
this poster feels that there are 3 possible solutions. Most delay seems to be happening west of South Bend ?
Solutions or questions?
schlimm Solutions or questions?
Turn them at Elkhart. There's a nice balloon track in the yard. Bustitute the gap. Things don't get too chunky until you get near LaPorte. Or, send them to St. Louis!
Or....a couple of panels of track and a hand throw switch with a circuit controller at South Bend and you could run all the way in to Randolph Street?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Do you really think busing folks to and from Chicago to a train somewhere in eastern Indiana or western Ohio is likely to keep the ridership for very long? No way to run a railroad.
schlimm:
Of course not; I agree with you.
But given the current reality, I ask, do you have a better solution? Remember, folks pay to get somewhere on time.
schlimm Do you really think busing folks to and from Chicago to a train somewhere in eastern Indiana or western Ohio is likely to keep the ridership for very long? No way to run a railroad.
Much better than letting them stew for 8 hours to go 80 miles....
-they would get to where they were going on roughly the same day...
-they would make connections
-they would actually be moving.
oltmannd schlimm Do you really think busing folks to and from Chicago to a train somewhere in eastern Indiana or western Ohio is likely to keep the ridership for very long? No way to run a railroad. Much better than letting them stew for 8 hours to go 80 miles.... -they would get to where they were going on roughly the same day... -they would make connections -they would actually be moving.
Probably better to suspend operations of the LSL and Capital until the meltdown is cured.
schlimm oltmannd schlimm Do you really think busing folks to and from Chicago to a train somewhere in eastern Indiana or western Ohio is likely to keep the ridership for very long? No way to run a railroad. Much better than letting them stew for 8 hours to go 80 miles.... -they would get to where they were going on roughly the same day... -they would make connections -they would actually be moving. Probably better to suspend operations of the LSL and Capital until the meltdown is cured.
Just like the Sunset got suspended East of New Orleans?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Not sure about that, but if service on NS lines continues to be chaotic and unreliable, with delays of 1-6 hours daily, do you really think many folk other than railfans and the air-phobic will want to book a reservation?
As some one else said " this is FUBAR "
I agree, either the South Shore, with METRA & NID cooperation, or bus to Elkhart. NOW!!!
If the delays are mostly between Porter and Chicago the trains could possibly be routed over the old EJ&E from Porter to Matteson and then over the CN following the route of the CNO, Saluki and Illini to Union Station.
Mark
The EJ&E from Porter to Griffith is now a bike trail.
An "expensive model collector"
Another problem with these large delays in the cascade effect. Yesterday, the Builder left Chicago at 4:25 (2:10 late), the Zephyr at 4:27 (2:27 late) and the Chief left at 4:23 (1:23 late). The close spacing of the departures indicates they were being held for the arrival of one or both of the eastern trains.
n012944 The EJ&E from Porter to Griffith is now a bike trail.
I forgot about that but I suspect a signigicant number of the delays occur east of Porter so the suggested routing over the South Shore from South Bend would probably be a better solution anyway. This would require changing the Capitol's schedule since it currently would put the eastbound train on the South Shore at the height of the NITD's morning commuter rush hour trains into Chicago. Present schedules for the westbound Capitol and the Lake Shore in both directions wouldn't present any such problem.
South Bend to Chicago on the south shore might work very well. Amtrak schedules on NS is ~ 1:30 both ways. The South Shore schedules are 1 :45. Add :15 to get to / from Union station over the St. Charles line will give only a half hour longer. If the connection just west of South Bend station can be used ( or restored ) ?. If NS can notify Amtrak and SS that there will be delays then route the Amtraks onto the SS.
How much single track is on the SS now so Amtrak could follow one of their commuter trains ? Weekends should not be a problem for pilots but weekdays might be a problem ? To prevent SS balking a directed service order from the STB & FRA would speed re route ?
Amtak crews might be able to qualify quickly since there should be at least some extra board crews ?
Today was much better. Porter was more fluid. Apparently, not as much track was under the control of the work gang.
South Shore is single track east of Gary with long sidings with spring switches. The junction with the Illinois Central is partially single track.
The Capitol is in the conga line four deep at Porter. The LSL made it through the mess at CP412 and is approaching Elkhart.
I vowed in 2000 that I would never ride Amtrak's Capitol Limited or any other Amtrak train east of Chicago again. You would think after 44 years Amtrak could get this right. I would have been better off getting off at Elkhart, renting a car and driving to Chicago than crawl into Chicago's Union Station on the Capitol Limited from Elkhart. I paid a lot of money for a sleeper. This is a train that operates between our Nation's Capital and our third largest city. Could you imagine SNCF operating a train like the Capitol Limited between Paris and Lyon? I can't. Amtrak is broke and can't be repaired. Anyone who is serious about passengers trains between Chicago and the East Coast should support something along the lines of TGV built from scratch with private capital. Let NS haul freight and the South Shore transport commuters. Do we have to read about the same old problems with Amtrak 20 years from now. I think not!
aricat I vowed in 2000 that I would never ride Amtrak's Capitol Limited or any other Amtrak train east of Chicago again. You would think after 44 years Amtrak could get this right. I would have been better off getting off at Elkhart,
I vowed in 2000 that I would never ride Amtrak's Capitol Limited or any other Amtrak train east of Chicago again. You would think after 44 years Amtrak could get this right. I would have been better off getting off at Elkhart,
Dakguy201 Another problem with these large delays in the cascade effect. Yesterday, the Builder left Chicago at 4:25 (2:10 late), the Zephyr at 4:27 (2:27 late) and the Chief left at 4:23 (1:23 late). The close spacing of the departures indicates they were being held for the arrival of one or both of the eastern trains.
Johnny
aricat Amtrak is broke and can't be repaired. Anyone who is serious about passengers trains between Chicago and the East Coast should support something along the lines of TGV built from scratch with private capital.
Amtrak is broke and can't be repaired. Anyone who is serious about passengers trains between Chicago and the East Coast should support something along the lines of TGV built from scratch with private capital.
We can dream ... but investors, unfortunately, aren't lining up to take on that project.
It may be that NS is winding down work for 2014 on this route. However if there is going to be much scheduled work in 2015 SOB - CHI then Amtrak and NS should work out the logistics now to detour on SS when necessary. That way all could be very competetive timing ? Note previous item about this routing.
blue streak 1 South Bend to Chicago on the south shore might work very well. Amtrak schedules on NS is ~ 1:30 both ways. The South Shore schedules are 1 :45. Add :15 to get to / from Union station over the St. Charles line will give only a half hour longer. If the connection just west of South Bend station can be used ( or restored ) ?. If NS can notify Amtrak and SS that there will be delays then route the Amtraks onto the SS. How much single track is on the SS now so Amtrak could follow one of their commuter trains ? Weekends should not be a problem for pilots but weekdays might be a problem ? To prevent SS balking a directed service order from the STB & FRA would speed re route ? Amtak crews might be able to qualify quickly since there should be at least some extra board crews ?
No work at Porter today...let's see what happens.
oltmannd No work at Porter today...let's see what happens.
An easier reroute than South Shore would be CN(GTW) from South Bend to Harvey IL, then CN(IC) to the St Charles Air Line. The stop at South Bend would be a casualty, as NS and CN connect east of the station. Amtrak HAS run Michigan trains on the South Shore, but Superliners on the Capitol might be an issue.
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