Sometimes one cannot win for losing. This is sort of an update of Texas Eagle service disruptions, although it does not have anything to do with Tower 55. Nevertheless, I chose to post it to this thread as opposed to opening a new one.
I took #21 to San Antonio for Thanksgiving and returned this morning on #22. Going south the train had its normal consist of a transition sleeper, a regular sleeper, a dining car, a lounge car, and three coaches. Returning today it had an extra coach and two private cars on the back, giving it a total of ten cars.
From New Braunfels to Austin, as well as most of the way from Austin to Taylor, the train crawled along at 30 mph. As a result we were more than 45 minutes late getting to Austin and more than an hour late getting into Taylor. The train is now shown as being nearly 2 1/2 hours late into Fort Worth. I assumed it was a slow freight train running ahead of us. Nope!
The conductor told me that the train was running 30 mph in many areas because of numerous slow orders on the UP. He said that the issue is likely to impact the Eagle for months. I am don't know the veracity of his information, but he seemed to know what he was talking about.
Anyone planning to ride the Eagle between Fort Worth and San Antonio in the next couple of months, at least, should plan on being late.
BNSFandSP Sam1 If Amtrak could convince the TRE to allow the Eagle to use its right-of-way regularly, as opposed to the UP line between Dallas and Fort Worth, it could eliminate the backing into and out of the FITC, which is a relatively complicated procedure. I am also curious as to how they are turning the consist. Are they wyeing in Dallas and having a TRE pilot loco from Dallas to Fort Worth?
Sam1 If Amtrak could convince the TRE to allow the Eagle to use its right-of-way regularly, as opposed to the UP line between Dallas and Fort Worth, it could eliminate the backing into and out of the FITC, which is a relatively complicated procedure.
If Amtrak could convince the TRE to allow the Eagle to use its right-of-way regularly, as opposed to the UP line between Dallas and Fort Worth, it could eliminate the backing into and out of the FITC, which is a relatively complicated procedure.
I am also curious as to how they are turning the consist. Are they wyeing in Dallas and having a TRE pilot loco from Dallas to Fort Worth?
The Texas Eagle is back on the UP between Dallas and Fort Worth, which means that Number 21 has to back into Fort Worth whilst Number 22 has to back out of the station.
For the two months that the Eagle ran on the TRE, it ran through from Dallas to Fort Worth. The Amtrak P42 was the only power that I observed on the trip that I made.
The equipment lay overnight in Fort Worth. The locomotives where turned, but as I remember it, the train was not. So the sleepers were on the front of the train into Fort Worth, but they were on the back of the train when returning to Chicago.
I believe TRE was deterred when Amtrak required TRE to take full responsibility for any Amtrak derailment on their line.
Blue Alert! We're at Blue Alert! Aw crap, it's a nondescript GEVO... Cancel Blue Alert!
Sam1I rode the Eagle from Temple to Dallas and back last week. And I rode it the week before as well.
Glad to see you back on here!
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
I rode the Eagle from Temple to Dallas and back last week. And I rode it the week before as well.
The whole area around Tower 55 is much cleaner than I remember it. Numerous tracks have been removed whilst others have been rebuilt. According to one of the conductors with whom I spoke, the tracks have been aligned so as to better keep the BNSF and UP trains separated and thereby facilitate their movement through the Tower 55 area.
Unfortunately, the Eagle is back on the UP between Fort Worth and Dallas and vice versa. And the backing into and out of the Fort Worth Intermodal Transit Center is back in play. Too bad! Running via the TRE is a better option, as was demonstrated during July and August, but Amtrak and TRE could not make it a permanent gig. One of the Eagle conductors told me that the TRE, which has to hoist some BNSF trains, was concerned about the late running Eagle, which has been up to three hours late recently.
The Eagle has three coaches. On both trips back to Temple the last coach was empty. This is unusual. It suggests that substituting buses for the train during July and August may have caused some regulars to give up on the train.
I usually go up to Dallas in a coach, but I return in an economy room. On both trips I noticed that the sleepers are getting a bit ratty looking.
Although it has been only 3 days of thru operation the make of of time from Dallas to Ft Worth is impressive. Might make up more if FTW could get train out faster ?
All Amtrak operations in and out of San Antonio occur only during the middle of the night. The station building with waiting room and rest room is open from 9:00pm until the last train pulls out at 7:00am. There is no adjoining long-term parking. When I leave my car there, I have to park it in a City garage about 4 blocks away and walk through THIS part of town both coming and going. It is not an inviting experience. The lighting at best is poor and spotty.
On nights when the Sunset Limited operates there is a several-hour lay over. Many people are necessarily out on the street during this time. The waiting room doesn't hold everybody.
The whole security issue needs serious review, beginning with the underlying reality of having all operations occur in the wee hours of the night.
From the train-status report on Amtrak's web site, it looks as if the Eagle began rolling again between Fort Worth-San Antonio Sept. 2. Any visual confirmations?
V.Payne 5) Someone had to try extra hard to schedule the track work in the Texas summer instead of the winter, when the crews can't work further north.
5) Someone had to try extra hard to schedule the track work in the Texas summer instead of the winter, when the crews can't work further north.
BNSF and UP are key players in the logistics chain to, from, and within Texas. They matter. Apparently they had a good business case for scheduling the work for July and August. Amtrak's trains are fringe elements for passenger travel to, from, and within Texas. They could go away tomorrow afternoon, and it would be hardly noticed.
So the takeaway from this discussion is:
1) What NRPC management thinks the market is and what the Market is are two different things.
- Why the absence of non-refundable fares on the national trains? Seems like a basic price differentiation method that does not drop service quality. Why the lack of provision for food on the bus bridge?
2) Motorcoaches have a hard time keeping the same stops and schedule of a relatively direct rail route.
- I got 6:20 to 7:30 by regular intercity motorcoach (with stations) on 8/20/14 but with more limited stops versus 6:58 on NRPC. This is due to the delay in getting off the highway and to the station, whereas a train just pulls right in to the platform and can be out relatively quickly.
3) Once you start breaking up longer routes and requiring a transfer you loose ridership.
4) Once you start breaking up longer routes into segments and using motorcoaches over a long period you loose even more ridership.
- Seat space per person on a motorcoach is about half that on a train. This does factor into a travelers perception of utility of the time during the trip.
5) Someone had to try extra hard to schedule the trackwork in the Texas summer instead of the winter, when the crews can't work further north.
dakotafred Ouch! What in the world can have made both buses three hours late?
Ouch! What in the world can have made both buses three hours late?
I don;'t know. And I did not stay around to find out.
Why the ticket agent had the Fort Worth passengers get on Number 22 at 2:00 p.m. is beyond me. Maybe he did not get the word that the buses were running very late, or perhaps he thought that we would be more comfortable on the train as opposed to sitting in the Fort Worth Intermodal Transportation Center waiting room.
A bottle of water and some snacks were in every coach seat. I supposed this is Amtrak's way of compensating the bus passengers for the lack of any food service between San Antonio, etc. and Fort Worth.
The San Antonio bus leaves the Alamo City at 7:00 a.m.. The buses don't make any food stops, according to a response that I received from Amtrak, but apparently the passengers can get off at Austin and/or Temple for a quick raid on vending machines. They are good for a coke and a bag of peanuts, and that is about it. Thus, when the bus passengers get to Fort Worth, they probably are pretty hungry unless they packed a lunch.
I rode the Texas Eagle from Dallas to Fort Worth on Tuesday to experience riding it on the Trinity Railway Express tracks.
Number 21 arrived in Dallas at approximately 11:50 a.m. or 20 minutes late. It departed Dallas at approximately 12:05 p.m. Roughly 35 passengers got off the train in Dallas. Only six got on for Fort Worth and points south.
The ride to Fort Worth was quicker and smoother than what I remember from numerous trips on the UP, which is the route normally used by the Eagle. We stopped at CentrePort, which is half way between Big D and Cow Town, for a few minutes to allow a Dallas bound TRE train to pass. The run from Dallas to Fort Worth required 38 minutes. Normally, the Eagle is allowed 1 hour, 35 minutes to run from Dallas to Fort Worth. Of this time, nearly 15 minutes is eaten up by backing the train into Fort Worth. Running on the TRE eliminated the need for the backing movement.
At Fort Worth Amtrak had two buses to take passengers to San Antonio and intermediate points. One bus ran to Cleburne and Austin. The other ran to McGregor, Temple, Taylor, Austin, San Marcos, and San Antonio. Neither of the buses were full when they departed Fort Worth.
Interestingly, Amtrak conductors were taking tickets for the buses. And Amtrak station personnel were loading bags onto the buses. Normally, these activities would be performed by the bus driver. I suspect the union insisted that Amtrak personnel ride the buses just like they do the train. That must have been a hardship; normally the conductors have lots of time to hang out in the dinning car on the train.
The equipment for Number 21, as well as the on-board service crew, stays in Fort Worth from the time it arrives there until the next afternoon. The equipment is not being turned. So southbound the sleepers are at the front of the train, but northbound they are at the rear. Number 21 had two locomotives, but Number 22 had one locomotive, which is the normal configuration.
Getting back to Dallas was another story. At 2:00 p.m. Amtrak's Fort Worth ticket agent told the passengers for Number 22 to board the train. At 2:20 p.m., which is the scheduled departure time for Number 22, the train began to move. However, I suspected that something was afoot. Instead of going forward, we backed up a couple hundred yards and stopped. Moreover, there were only four people on my coach, which struck me as being a pretty light load. After 10 minutes or so the car attendant said that the connecting buses would not arrive in Fort Worth until approximately 5:00 p.m., and Number 22 would not get underway until approximately 5:30 p.m. That did it. I got off the train and took the TRE back to Dallas.
blue streak 1 Sam1 blue streak 1 Others have spoken of the poor San Antonia (SAS ) station. The following needs no comment. http://www.foxsanantonio.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/family-holds-funeral-man-killed-at-amtrak-station-5096.shtml#.U8InLu8g-hx This is unfortunate. The only bench that is outside of the station is under a flood light. Moreover, there is a crew there from 11:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. to switch the through cars to and from the Texas Eagle. Since he was waiting for a train to Louisiana, it had to be on a night when the Sunset Limited was carrying through cars for the Eagle. Since this happened on a day that the Eagle was cancelled to FTW would that have changed anything ? t
Sam1 blue streak 1 Others have spoken of the poor San Antonia (SAS ) station. The following needs no comment. http://www.foxsanantonio.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/family-holds-funeral-man-killed-at-amtrak-station-5096.shtml#.U8InLu8g-hx This is unfortunate. The only bench that is outside of the station is under a flood light. Moreover, there is a crew there from 11:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. to switch the through cars to and from the Texas Eagle. Since he was waiting for a train to Louisiana, it had to be on a night when the Sunset Limited was carrying through cars for the Eagle.
blue streak 1 Others have spoken of the poor San Antonia (SAS ) station. The following needs no comment. http://www.foxsanantonio.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/family-holds-funeral-man-killed-at-amtrak-station-5096.shtml#.U8InLu8g-hx
Others have spoken of the poor San Antonia (SAS ) station. The following needs no comment.
http://www.foxsanantonio.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/family-holds-funeral-man-killed-at-amtrak-station-5096.shtml#.U8InLu8g-hx
This is unfortunate. The only bench that is outside of the station is under a flood light. Moreover, there is a crew there from 11:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. to switch the through cars to and from the Texas Eagle. Since he was waiting for a train to Louisiana, it had to be on a night when the Sunset Limited was carrying through cars for the Eagle.
Number 21 ran south on Wednesday, July 2nd. It had the through cars that were transferred to Number 1 on Thursday morning, July 3rd, having arrived in San Antonio Wednesday evening. The yard crew would have come on duty at 11:00 p.m. on July 2nd and worked the car transfers during the morning of July 3rd.
Whether the yard crew was near the station is unknown. I am surprised, if the victim was sitting on the bench outside the station, which is the only one that I am aware of, that other people would not have heard and possibly seen his attacker, although if the attack occurred on July 3rd, as reported by the news, it would have been in the wee hours of the morning. Or that the station personnel would not have heard any outcry. However, he could have been somewhere else. Newspaper and TV reporters don't always have complete information.
Also, the station had an attendant that is on duty all night. That he would not have heard any cries for help seems a bit odd.
Unfortunately, the San Antonio Amtrak Station is in a part of town that is going downhill. There use to be a lot of businesses on Commerce Street, including a Ruth's Steak House, but it, along with several of the watering holes, have closed, and the area has become seedy.
Based on my experience, outside of the major northeast corridor Amtrak stations, as well as some of those in the California corridors and perhaps the Illinois corridors, arriving late at night at an Amtrak station in a major city is not a good idea.
As noted in the UP blurb, as well as articles in the Fort Worth Star Telegram, the Tower 55 project is a big deal. I have been through there several times in the last month. The track and signal work appears to be significant. The crossings and signals, as well as underground communication cable ways, have been reworked big time. When it is done, it should ease the bottlenecks associated with Tower 55, which has been shuttered for years.
I plan to go up to Dallas in a couple of weeks and ride the Eagle from Dallas over to Fort Worth. Although I have ridden the TRE on numerous occasions, as well as the Eagle, I have never been able to ride the Eagle over the TRE.
blue streak 1 Although not entirely germain to tis thread what is the tower 55 interlocking about ? 1. Was the plant expanded or was a new plant already been installed ? 2. What type controls previously and when work finished ? 3. Whose responsibility or is it shared by UP & BNSF ? 4. How many personnel and who pays them ? 5. Any other items ?
Although not entirely germain to tis thread what is the tower 55 interlocking about ?
1. Was the plant expanded or was a new plant already been installed ?
2. What type controls previously and when work finished ?
3. Whose responsibility or is it shared by UP & BNSF ?
4. How many personnel and who pays them ?
5. Any other items ?
http://www.uprr.com/newsinfo/attachments/media_kit/regional/tower-55_factsheet.pdf
I cannot seem to get the links. However, when I highlight a URL reference and right click on it, my browser's give me the option to go straight to the web page. I don't have to pasted it into my browser. It works with Google Chrome but not IE.
desertdog dakotafred These service disruptions, around the Amtrak system, are getting worse and worse. I sympathize with the freight railroads and the disadvantageous terms under which they serve Amtrak ... but at some point Amtrak must take a stand. Speaking just for myself, I have a big trip booked for October that looks like it is "scheduled" -- that's a laugh -- for serious disruptions on at least two of its legs. Late trains are one thing, missed connections another. Everybody's got to pull up his socks! I'm not sure what kind of stand Amtrak can take in a situation like this. The Tower 55 project is enormously complicated. It will cause significant, unavoidable disruption to both railroads, let alone Amtrak. Meanwhile, a bus substitution offers a far better solution than daily delays of undetermined length, perhaps even hours.
dakotafred These service disruptions, around the Amtrak system, are getting worse and worse. I sympathize with the freight railroads and the disadvantageous terms under which they serve Amtrak ... but at some point Amtrak must take a stand. Speaking just for myself, I have a big trip booked for October that looks like it is "scheduled" -- that's a laugh -- for serious disruptions on at least two of its legs. Late trains are one thing, missed connections another. Everybody's got to pull up his socks!
These service disruptions, around the Amtrak system, are getting worse and worse. I sympathize with the freight railroads and the disadvantageous terms under which they serve Amtrak ... but at some point Amtrak must take a stand.
Speaking just for myself, I have a big trip booked for October that looks like it is "scheduled" -- that's a laugh -- for serious disruptions on at least two of its legs.
Late trains are one thing, missed connections another. Everybody's got to pull up his socks!
I'm not sure what kind of stand Amtrak can take in a situation like this. The Tower 55 project is enormously complicated. It will cause significant, unavoidable disruption to both railroads, let alone Amtrak.
Meanwhile, a bus substitution offers a far better solution than daily delays of undetermined length, perhaps even hours.
As noted above, during a similar situation in the spring, i.e. track work between Longview and Fort Worth, the Eagle was routed to Taylor via Jacksonville, Palestine, and Hearne, thereby enabling the train to continue to San Antonio. Why Amtrak management was not able to work out a similar arrangement for the work being performed at Tower 55 is unknown.
The Amtrak management team appears to be heavily weighted with life long government service bureaucrats. They are successful, at least in part, because they have figured out how to go along to get along. They probably don't see any advantage to leaning on the UP to accommodate the Eagle on the Longview to Taylor option as per this spring. My guess is that Boardman, at the end of the day, knows that the future for passenger rail is not in long distance trains and, therefore, to play a high card against the UP would not be in his or Amtrak's interest.
The purpose of my second post was to highlight the inadequacy of the customer service representative's response regarding meal service arrangement for the passengers being transferred to a bus at Fort Worth or Dallas. The message is the bus will stop at one of the stations listed. They have vending machines. What else do they need?
As if to add insult to injury, the on-line status tab shows that the information for the Texas Eagle is unavailable due to a service disruption. It has been displaying this information since July 5th. Amtrak told me that they are working on the problem. Wow! Its four days into the service change, and Amtrak cannot figure out how to fix the status tab for the Texas Eagle.
desertdog . The Tower 55 project is enormously complicated. It will cause significant, unavoidable disruption to both railroads, let alone Amtrak.
We need a KP there.
John Timm
Sam1The bus will take only eight hours to travel from Fort Worth to San Antonio, so saith the Amtrak Customer Service Representative,
268-287 miles. By car 4 hrs. 15 min., maybe less. Unbelievable. But then, nobody would ride Amtrak LD as actual transportation. The TX Eagle schedule (train) is 6 hr 58 min. ($34-67). The Megabus from Grand Prairie (nearest to Ft. Worth) takes 5 hr 20 min., $25-33.
On Sunday I asked Amtrak's Customer Service Group what meal arrangements, if any, would be made for passengers on Number 21 and Number 22, who will be traveling by bus between Fort Worth and San Antonio. This morning, Tuesday, July 8th, I got an answer. It is almost unbelievable.
The bus will take only eight hours to travel from Fort Worth to San Antonio, so saith the Amtrak Customer Service Representative, or slightly more than nine hours on those dates when the Texas Eagle terminates and originates in Dallas. The CSR said that the bus passengers will be able to get food at Cleburne, Temple, Austin, San Marcos, and San Antonio. Really!
The only food to be found at the aforementioned stations comes out of vending machines. Presumably, Amtrak's idea of a meal stop is for the passenger to charge off the bus while it stops at the station, crab a bag of M&Ms, as well as a soda pop, or a similar feast item, and be back on the bus in a jiffy.
There is a Subway Shop in the Fort Worth Intermodal Transportation Center. Travel wise passengers may know to get a sandwich there before departing for San Antonio, but a lot of through passengers, I suspect, will not know about it. In any case, unless their idea of a gourmet mean is M&Ms and a soda pop, between Fort Worth and San Antonio the bus passengers are going to have slim pickens.
Only a government managed railroad would come up with a response like this!
Sam1 It's official! Amtrak has posted the service disruption notice on its website. Buses will be substituted for the Texas Eagle between Fort Worth and San Antonio from July 4th to September 3rd. If buses are a suitable substitute for the train between Fort Worth and San Antonio during July and August, which are two of the busiest travel months, why do we need the train at all?
It's official!
Amtrak has posted the service disruption notice on its website. Buses will be substituted for the Texas Eagle between Fort Worth and San Antonio from July 4th to September 3rd.
If buses are a suitable substitute for the train between Fort Worth and San Antonio during July and August, which are two of the busiest travel months, why do we need the train at all?
blue streak 1 Sam1 I cannot help but wonder how robustly Amtrak senior management pushed back on the UP to run the Eagle from Longview to Taylor via Jacksonville, Palestine, and Hearne, which is what it did earlier this year. Being able to do so would allow the train to serve its major population centers south of Fort Worth. SAM1: do not know UP traffic but is UP going to institute a 10 - 12 hour work window each day? If so it may be planning to route the freight normally thru Austin to the route you posted ? If so that might overload your route posted ?
Sam1 I cannot help but wonder how robustly Amtrak senior management pushed back on the UP to run the Eagle from Longview to Taylor via Jacksonville, Palestine, and Hearne, which is what it did earlier this year. Being able to do so would allow the train to serve its major population centers south of Fort Worth.
I cannot help but wonder how robustly Amtrak senior management pushed back on the UP to run the Eagle from Longview to Taylor via Jacksonville, Palestine, and Hearne, which is what it did earlier this year. Being able to do so would allow the train to serve its major population centers south of Fort Worth.
SAM1: do not know UP traffic but is UP going to institute a 10 - 12 hour work window each day? If so it may be planning to route the freight normally thru Austin to the route you posted ? If so that might overload your route posted ?
There is no planned maintenance for the Longview to Taylor route, which runs through Jacksonville, Palestine, and Hearne to Taylor, as far as I know. Apparently the UP will be routing some addition trains onto this route. And one of the Eagle conductors told me that the traffic on the line will increase significantly.
I still cannot help wonder just how hard, if at all, Amtrak senior management pushed back on UP with respect to running the Eagle over this route, which is what it did during the previous maintenance project this year between Longview and Dallas. It may be unfair on my part, but I get the impression that Amtrak management just rolls over when the freight carriers tell them to. And maybe they should. They are the beggars with little real leverage outside of a court fight, which they are not guaranteed to prevail.
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