A woman of my acquaintance lives in Missouri. She has three grandchildren ages 13, 10, and 8. She just retired from being a public high school teacher.
She thought that it would be a good idea for her to bring the three grandkids up to Chicago on Amtrak. She'd give 'em a train ride, they'd see the Big City, and visit the Museum of Science and Industry. Kind of a fun and educational thing to do over their summer vacation from school.
Now this wasn't really Amtrak's fault, but she's saying "I'll never take a train again".
The northbound train trip was good for a few hours, but then the children got bored. It was described to me as and "Ordeal".
The southbound #305 of 7/12 hit a truck near Wilmington, IL. With the tree grandkids. No one on the train was hurt. But, they were delayed and, as best I can understand, eventually combined with the following #307 to make a slow trip to St. Louis.
Got to St. Louis at around 3:40 AM. She found a hotel, which Amtrak didn't pay for, and they slept late into the morning. Her husband had to drive down from a fishing trip in Iowa to "rescue" them in St. Louis.
She's saying she'll never take a train again. Guys, this ain't workin'.
I cannot say I blame her, but:
1. If I were traveling more than an hour or two with three children, I would sure have with me lots of games and other entertainment to keep them from boardum. 2. On the return trip, I would have contacted one of the trainmen, and asked whether he or another crew member would like to talk to the children about the accident. It would be a good opportunity for some concerned railroad man to have chance educate some children about safety around railroad tracks and equipment. 3. I would try to have some time where the four of us, the three children and myself, have a table to ourselves in the cafe car to vary the trip from just sitting in the coach seats. 4. I would try to locate our coach seats if possible in the rear car, so one child at a time can have an opportunity to see the track wind away through the window in the door to the vestibule.
Some people know how to travel, some don't. Some people know how to travel with children, some don't. Some people know when you travel S..T happens - beyond your control, beyond your carrier's control.
Perhaps she would have preferred being in a vehicle trapped in a traffic jam on I-57 for 4 or 5 hours instead with the 3 kids.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Some people know how to travel, some don't. Some people know how to travel with children, some don't. Some people know when you travel S..T happens - beyond your control, beyond your carrier's control. Perhaps she would have preferred being in a vehicle trapped in a traffic jam on I-57 for 4 or 5 hours instead with the 3 kids.
It is this outlook on passenger trains that keeps Amtrak stuck at the level of a billion plus in Federal support when the aviation system gets 10 times as much and the highway system 30 times as much.
It is this outlook on passenger trains that keeps Amtrak at a one part in one thousand share of total passenger miles, one part in one hundred share of airline passenger miles, one part on ten of intercity bus passenger miles.
As passenger train advocates, enthusiasts, or simply people interested in trains, we can discuss does this happen more often than you think or is it rare -- many of us are frequent train riders may have a sense of this. Have our frequent train riders experienced such themselves, how do they react to it, and what sense to they get regarding the less-frequent train rider and how they take it?
"Perhaps she would have preferred being . . . trapped in a traffic jam" is un-tempered sarcasm directed at someone without much train riding or perhaps travel experience. I have seen and heard such remarks both in on-line as well as in-person advocacy circles.
The tragedy with respect to advancing the cause of trains is that the same information content could have been communicated more gently along the lines of, "Yeah, too bad for this poor lady and her kids and too bad for Amtrak this happened, but a person has to be mindful that all modes of transportation have breakdowns." And yes, not only what you say but how you say it can make all the difference.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Paul M. and Ken, you both have nailed this one. On a passenger thread there was the example of an Amtrak long distance train delayed 14 hours by a brake shoe malfunction. Sure, stuff happens, but the absence of professionalism to assist with the problem as well as a "blame the passenger" attitude are typical reasons why Amtrak is such a minor player in the US outside the NEC.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
What is your defination of 'professionalism'? - at the first occurrence of delay teleporting all the passengers to destination. Scotty doesn't work for Amtrak or any other transportation company yet.
Everyone involved in all these accidental occurrences is working with all their effort to get moving again. When local authorities won't release the train after a trespasser incident - what is the 'professional' thing to do? When a mechanical issue prevents safe movement of the train - what is the 'professional' thing to do?
No one is more frustrated with the line blockages than the railroads where the incident happens. Do you think CSX was happy with Amtrak blocking a track segment for 14 hours? Do you think UP was happy with the line blockage from the trespasser incident?
All forms of travel have their potential for excessive delay. City of San Francisco and a little snow. Titanic and a little ice. Air travel and a volcano or two. Even the Donner party had their transportation issues.
The train in question. #91, broke down only 2 miles north of Richmond Staples station. In the 13 hours and 39 minutes it took to get to the station, seven more Amtrak southbound trains would have had to have passed it, to say nothing of possible CSX freights. There is no report that the other trains were also blocked, nor any CSX trains. An agency that gives a *** about its customers might have found some approach to at least ferry them to the station. Or some other creative approach..Instead you get this: According to Amtrak spokesperson Kimberly Woods, arranging shuttle bus transportation was too problematic, and allowing passengers to walk onto the tracks was deemed unsafe. [Passengers were not allowed to leave the train cars, even as Henrico Police officers boarded and exited Amtrak Train 91 during the overnight hours.] "A delay of this magnitude is considered rare and we understand the passengers frustrations from last night's events," Woods said in an email Monday. "We encourage passengers to call 1-800-USA-RAIL for refund or credit information"
schlimm The train in question. #91, broke down only 2 miles north of Richmond Staples station. In the 13 hours and 39 minutes it took to get to the station, seven more Amtrak southbound trains would have had to have passed it, to say nothing of possible CSX freights. There is no report that the other trains were also blocked, nor any CSX trains. An agency that gives a *** about its customers might have found some approach to at least ferry them to the station. Or some other creative approach..Instead you get this:
The train in question. #91, broke down only 2 miles north of Richmond Staples station. In the 13 hours and 39 minutes it took to get to the station, seven more Amtrak southbound trains would have had to have passed it, to say nothing of possible CSX freights. There is no report that the other trains were also blocked, nor any CSX trains. An agency that gives a *** about its customers might have found some approach to at least ferry them to the station. Or some other creative approach..Instead you get this:
Reports I read said train had 261 passengers - 98% or more destined for points well South of Richmond. How many of the 7 Amtrak trains were destined to the same destinations as #91? How many people could the Richmond Amtrak station support, with food, beverage, resting areas, sanitary facilities and A/C for a extended period of time. Working around the out of service track segment that was blocked by #91 cost CSX several recrews of their trains. Passengers wandering around a active railroad right of way has about the same safety level as airline passengers wandering around a active runway. The word that reached CSX about busses was that they were not available, why? Only Amtrak and the bus company(s) know. The devil is always in the details - the details of most safely handling 261 people.
How about some simple courtesies extended? How about offering passengers a choice between staying on the train vs being transported to the station or the airport? Amtrak should have access to buses. If they didn't in this case, they should figure it out. I wonder how many of the 261 passengers will travel on Amtrak again?
You guys are posting replies which should be on the "Amtrak train delayed 14 hours" thread. This thread, "Never Again Trip" refers to an incident on a Chicago - St. Louis train.
My fault, but the incidents are related.
She's a public school teacher and was surprised that the kids got "bored"?
Guess they didn't charge up the Kindle or Ipad?
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
My late, lamented dad used to say, "Traveling ain't like being home." Truer words were never spoken.
I hate delays in traveling but haven't we all experienced them? What about airplanes? Has anyone here ever been delayed by the airlines? Ever landed in a different city because of bad weather when your flight couldn't land where it was supposed to? I'm glad someone reminded us about traffic jams (for which Chicago is notorious).
People are delayed daily on the nation's buses, trains, and airplanes. As Balt said, stuff happens. How many customers would the airlines have if all of us who've experienced their delays took an oath never to use their services again? Thanks to the Internet, etc. people on delayed trains and buses at least can stay in touch and have some entertainment options.
greyhoundsGuys, this ain't workin'.
This assessment of Amtrak aroused my curiosity about Amtrak service in Missouri, the subject of the comment. I offer it to put comments about Amtrak in a reasonable context.
Amtrak operates 2 long distance trains in Missouri, the Southwest Chief and the Texas Eagle. Each train provides a daily round trip. The Southwest Chief runs through Kansas City and the Texas Eagle runs through St. Louis. In addition the State of Missouri funds 2 River Runners between Kansas City and St. Louis. Both make 2 daily round trips. One River Runner in each direction connects with Illinois' Lincoln Service to provide travel to Chicago.
In 2010 there were 670,505 boardings and alightings in Missouri, a 2.3 per cent increase from the previous year. In 2011 there were 739,256 boardings and alightings, a 9 per cent increase.
Amtrak has 12 stations in Missouri. The biggest, St. Louis, served 310,859 people in 2010. The smallest, Popular Bluff, served 5488 people.
All of this information is from Amtrak; most comes from Missouri fact sheets.
greyhounds A woman of my acquaintance lives in Missouri. She has three grandchildren ages 13, 10, and 8. She just retired from being a public high school teacher. She thought that it would be a good idea for her to bring the three grandkids up to Chicago on Amtrak. She'd give 'em a train ride, they'd see the Big City, and visit the Museum of Science and Industry. Kind of a fun and educational thing to do over their summer vacation from school. Now this wasn't really Amtrak's fault, but she's saying "I'll never take a train again". The northbound train trip was good for a few hours, but then the children got bored. It was described to me as and "Ordeal". The southbound #305 of 7/12 hit a truck near Wilmington, IL. With the tree grandkids. No one on the train was hurt. But, they were delayed and, as best I can understand, eventually combined with the following #307 to make a slow trip to St. Louis. Got to St. Louis at around 3:40 AM. She found a hotel, which Amtrak didn't pay for, and they slept late into the morning. Her husband had to drive down from a fishing trip in Iowa to "rescue" them in St. Louis. She's saying she'll never take a train again. Guys, this ain't workin'.
It's not because this one incident happened. Things happen. People understand. But, when the % of "bad trips" gets too high, you wind up with an unsustainable customer base. "Bad trips" cause "never again" - and bad word of mouth publicity.
As for kids of that age being "bored"...that's on the kids. They should be responsible for bringing enough stuff to keep them entertained. It's not that hard - movies, music, games and books are more plentiful and transportable than ever these days - and the train has 110 VAC power to keep everything charged.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
oltmannd greyhounds A woman of my acquaintance lives in Missouri. She has three grandchildren ages 13, 10, and 8. She just retired from being a public high school teacher. She thought that it would be a good idea for her to bring the three grandkids up to Chicago on Amtrak. She'd give 'em a train ride, they'd see the Big City, and visit the Museum of Science and Industry. Kind of a fun and educational thing to do over their summer vacation from school. Now this wasn't really Amtrak's fault, but she's saying "I'll never take a train again". The northbound train trip was good for a few hours, but then the children got bored. It was described to me as and "Ordeal". The southbound #305 of 7/12 hit a truck near Wilmington, IL. With the tree grandkids. No one on the train was hurt. But, they were delayed and, as best I can understand, eventually combined with the following #307 to make a slow trip to St. Louis. Got to St. Louis at around 3:40 AM. She found a hotel, which Amtrak didn't pay for, and they slept late into the morning. Her husband had to drive down from a fishing trip in Iowa to "rescue" them in St. Louis. She's saying she'll never take a train again. Guys, this ain't workin'. It's not because this one incident happened. Things happen. People understand. But, when the % of "bad trips" gets too high, you wind up with an unsustainable customer base. "Bad trips" cause "never again" - and bad word of mouth publicity. As for kids of that age being "bored"...that's on the kids. They should be responsible for bringing enough stuff to keep them entertained. It's not that hard - movies, music, games and books are more plentiful and transportable than ever these days - and the train has 110 VAC power to keep everything charged.
The power outlets along with absence of restrictions on using "electronic devices" was a big, big selling point of the Acela. Are seat-side power outlets common on other train sets?
The other thing is that it is not like Grandma, like, never had a child of her own. But Grandma may be out of practice.
I take a lot of trains. Most trips are enjoyable and uneventful. I, however, always plan for the worst. My rules of train travel are:
Follow these five rules and delays can be tolerated no matter how long they may be.
BruceLA
Bruce LA I take a lot of trains. Most trips are enjoyable and uneventful. I, however, always plan for the worst. My rules of train travel are: If you absolutely, positively have to be somewhere by a certain time, do NOT go by train. Never travel with someone who is not train friendly. I took my girlfriend on a short train trip when we first started dating. She made my life a living hell for three hours. I can't even begin to imagine what it would have been like on a two day trip. Always sit in the Club Car or get a sleeping compartment for longer trips. Being comfortable goes a long way when delays happen. Always stockpile a suitable supply of snacks and sodas in case the cafe car runs out. I get really cranky when I get hungry. Make sure your iPad is full of movies, books and music so that you can keep yourself entertained. Follow these five rules and delays can be tolerated no matter how long they may be. BruceLA
Good advice. Just a small modification to point 1: If you absolutely, positively have to be somewhere by a certain time, it's not about what means of transportation you choose, but about planning enough buffer time. I've missed many more appointments because the airline couldn't get me there on time than I've missed by relying on trains. So I've learned to plan accordingly: travel a day early or leave plenty of hours between scheduled arrival and appointment start. BTW, that applies when I'm driving too. Been stuck in traffic due to construction or accident too many times.
On one of our trips, we rode the Texas Eagle from Chicago to Los Angeles. We were late leaving San Antonio because the Sunset had hit an automobile not long after leaving New Orleans. A lady, taking her first trip by train and had boarded in New Orleans, was extremely upset because of the delay, and blamed Amtrak even though no railroad was culpable for the delay.
Johnny
Moving between A and B has been fraught with delay ever since man tried to move between A and B. A rock slide across the primary path between A and B would have delayed our earliest ancestors and caused them to map out an alternate strategy. As the centuries progressed the causes of delay would change, especially as the means of transportation changed, but delays would be encountered nevertheless.
Was taking a flight to Orlando one time. Didn't get in the air until 3 hours after I was supposed to have landed in Orlando - excuse, no flight crew in position and one had to be flown in from another city. Another time was flying from Chicago to Toledo - snowing in Chicago, got to O'Hare and found my flight (and all subsequent flights) had been cancelled; got a room at the hotel attached to the airport and fought the battle the next day, finally getting out on a late afternoon flight. On highway journeys I have been delayed for hours for situations that happened enroute.
Some people have the temperament to travel, some don't. Keep as far away from those that don't as possible, they will make your life miserable.
Of course we all have encountered delays and cancellations. But the key is good customer relations which mitigates the problem, at least how one feels afterward.
I had a late afternoon flight from Portland, OR to Chicago O'hare about seven years ago. it was the last flight on AA that day. Unfortunately, the plane had equipment problems. While waiting the passengers were updated as to progress, etc. Finally the flight had to be cancelled as neither the malfunctioning part nor a substitute plane were available. We were offered the choice of a later flight on another airline or accommodations for the night. Most passengers elected to stay overnight. We were shuttled to a very nice nearby hotel and given rooms for the night and food chits for the hotel restaurant for dinner and breakfast and told our flight would resume the next morning at 8:30, 15 hours after the scheduled departure. Giving passengers a choice definitely helps and builds goodwill, unlike the Amtrak response to Paul's friend or the train stuck 14 hours 2 miles from Richmond.
"She made my life a living hell for three hours."
Uh, Bruce, is she still your girlfriend?
Firelock76 "She made my life a living hell for three hours." Uh, Bruce, is she still your girlfriend?
Yes, but I go by train and she goes by plane.
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