CMStPnP Sam1: I spent more than 40 years flying commercial as part of my job. I never got a meal on an airplane that was very good. In fact, after the first couple of years, when the thrill of flying for business had worn off, I avoided the meals on the airplane even though they were priced into the cost of the ticket. The domestic airlines finally figured it out, thanks in no small part to Southwest Airlines, which never offered meals. Most people want to get from point A to B as cheaply as possible. They don't want meals that are prepared in a commissary, put on the plane, re-heated and served, especially when most of the meals were not as good as folks could get at their local cafeteria. Southwest figured out what the market wants. I made 22 trips between the United States and Australia, where I lived and worked for five years. Most of my trips were on Qantas, although approximately 25 per cent of them were on United. The meals on Qantas and United were of similar quality and quantity. None of them, however, were what one could get at a decent middle grade restaurant. 600k air miles under my belt on American Airlines. I think their first class service as far as food is concerned is more than acceptable to me. Never had a meal in First Class I didn't enjoy on American. My observations of other airlines: America West Coach (pass the candy bar basket........really?........merged into US Scare) Delta Air Lines Coach (Kool Aide as a beverage?.........really?) Midwest Airlines All Business Class Airline (fairly decent meals back when they were complimentary........now the airline is out of business). Became Frontier, what a CF Frontier is. Never flew Air Scam before Southwest bought them, I tend to avoid the cattle car airlines, life is too short already.
Sam1: I spent more than 40 years flying commercial as part of my job. I never got a meal on an airplane that was very good. In fact, after the first couple of years, when the thrill of flying for business had worn off, I avoided the meals on the airplane even though they were priced into the cost of the ticket. The domestic airlines finally figured it out, thanks in no small part to Southwest Airlines, which never offered meals. Most people want to get from point A to B as cheaply as possible. They don't want meals that are prepared in a commissary, put on the plane, re-heated and served, especially when most of the meals were not as good as folks could get at their local cafeteria. Southwest figured out what the market wants. I made 22 trips between the United States and Australia, where I lived and worked for five years. Most of my trips were on Qantas, although approximately 25 per cent of them were on United. The meals on Qantas and United were of similar quality and quantity. None of them, however, were what one could get at a decent middle grade restaurant.
I spent more than 40 years flying commercial as part of my job. I never got a meal on an airplane that was very good. In fact, after the first couple of years, when the thrill of flying for business had worn off, I avoided the meals on the airplane even though they were priced into the cost of the ticket.
The domestic airlines finally figured it out, thanks in no small part to Southwest Airlines, which never offered meals. Most people want to get from point A to B as cheaply as possible. They don't want meals that are prepared in a commissary, put on the plane, re-heated and served, especially when most of the meals were not as good as folks could get at their local cafeteria. Southwest figured out what the market wants.
I made 22 trips between the United States and Australia, where I lived and worked for five years. Most of my trips were on Qantas, although approximately 25 per cent of them were on United. The meals on Qantas and United were of similar quality and quantity. None of them, however, were what one could get at a decent middle grade restaurant.
600k air miles under my belt on American Airlines. I think their first class service as far as food is concerned is more than acceptable to me. Never had a meal in First Class I didn't enjoy on American. My observations of other airlines:
America West Coach (pass the candy bar basket........really?........merged into US Scare)
Delta Air Lines Coach (Kool Aide as a beverage?.........really?)
Midwest Airlines All Business Class Airline (fairly decent meals back when they were complimentary........now the airline is out of business). Became Frontier, what a CF Frontier is.
Never flew Air Scam before Southwest bought them, I tend to avoid the cattle car airlines, life is too short already.
First class and business class meals tend to be better than those served in coach class, if the coach passengers get a meal, which they usually do on long overseas flights. However, first class and business class is an exception. Very few people can afford to fly either class. And most of those who fly first class and business class are travelling on an expense account.
If it were not for the coach passengers, there would be no first and business class. To the best of my knowledge, none of the all first class or all business class airlines have survived.The same concept applies to passenger rail. If it were not for the coaches there probably would be no sleeping cars and no full service dinning cars. Of course, there was a time when all Pullman car trains (Broadway Limited, Twentieth Century Limited, etc.) were viable, but they are long gone.
oltmannd Yes, Amtrak is attracting the eye of politicians because they created a lot of openings to pick at. Their whole lackadaisical approach to what they do and lack of progress is what brings this down on them. Did you know they have the worst safety record of any Class 1 RR. Their injury ratio is about 3 vs less than one for the freight railroads. (reportable injuries per 200,000 (?) man hours worked)
Yes, Amtrak is attracting the eye of politicians because they created a lot of openings to pick at. Their whole lackadaisical approach to what they do and lack of progress is what brings this down on them. Did you know they have the worst safety record of any Class 1 RR. Their injury ratio is about 3 vs less than one for the freight railroads. (reportable injuries per 200,000 (?) man hours worked)
Don, i don't know anything about you, your age, your experience, etc. But your statement here seems a bit niave to me in that it seems to assume that Amtrak has always been, that Amtrak is a railroad like the freight railroads instature, and that just now it is attracting the attention of politicians. In fact Amtrak is only 40 years old or so, it is not like a freight railroad in that it doesn't own and operate all its own lines, it is a government owned and operated entity and not a private orginization, and the politicians have been toying with it since they built it in 1970 and are not just now paying attention. The difference between Amtrak and other railroads is gigantic as is Amtrak compared to rail passenger service before its creation. It is really difficult, all statistics and rhetoric aside, to actually compare Amtrak to any other American railroad but more to Canada's Via or government owned and operated services other than commuter, elsewhere around the world.
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henry6 oltmannd: Yes, Amtrak is attracting the eye of politicians because they created a lot of openings to pick at. Their whole lackadaisical approach to what they do and lack of progress is what brings this down on them. Did you know they have the worst safety record of any Class 1 RR. Their injury ratio is about 3 vs less than one for the freight railroads. (reportable injuries per 200,000 (?) man hours worked) Don, i don't know anything about you, your age, your experience, etc. But your statement here seems a bit niave to me in that it seems to assume that Amtrak has always been, that Amtrak is a railroad like the freight railroads instature, and that just now it is attracting the attention of politicians. In fact Amtrak is only 40 years old or so, it is not like a freight railroad in that it doesn't own and operate all its own lines, it is a government owned and operated entity and not a private orginization, and the politicians have been toying with it since they built it in 1970 and are not just now paying attention. The difference between Amtrak and other railroads is gigantic as is Amtrak compared to rail passenger service before its creation. It is really difficult, all statistics and rhetoric aside, to actually compare Amtrak to any other American railroad but more to Canada's Via or government owned and operated services other than commuter, elsewhere around the world.
oltmannd: Yes, Amtrak is attracting the eye of politicians because they created a lot of openings to pick at. Their whole lackadaisical approach to what they do and lack of progress is what brings this down on them. Did you know they have the worst safety record of any Class 1 RR. Their injury ratio is about 3 vs less than one for the freight railroads. (reportable injuries per 200,000 (?) man hours worked)
Henry -
56, 34 years on the railroad. Mechanical, Intermodal Operations, Transportation Planning.
The problem is that "Amtrak is different", and it is to some extent, is used as an excuse to change or challenge nothing.
The differences are not so great that useful comparisons cannot be made.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
That's not exactly what happened. Subway (the sandwich franchise) had a short-term trial contract with Amtrak which started just before Thanksgiving, which is Amtrak's heaviest travel time. The service lasweeklies than a week. Three minimum-wage Subway employees did the job of one Amtrak service attendant during that time. Sales were poor. Union reps boarded the train one morning and distributed literature to the passengers, detailing the numerous responsibilities and training of Amtrak employees. One of the Subway attendants called his supervisor and read the literature to him over the phone. The supervisor told him to pack it up, the contract was over. Subway used the incident to get out of a money-losing proposition. Amtrak didn't back out; Subway did. I was on the train that day and witnessed the entire incident. There was never any talk of a strike.
The service attendants are financially accountable for the food stock. They are generally "married" to the food during the trip. A crew swap would necessitate a delay to inventory the stock. Did you know that if you stole a soda from an Amtrak cafe, the attendant pays for it?
i appreciate and respect your answer, Don. So we must agree to disagree. I think that Amtrak is so much different than predecssor private enterprise rail passenger operations and from private enterprise freight operations over all that it cannot be compared to them while you think Amtrak has only minor differences and can be compared. Is that a good conclusion?
Amtrak employees do not work in the commissaries. They only work on the trains. The commissaries are staffed by a company called Aramark. The whole business of providing food to the trains is contracted out to Aramark, who in turn buys the food from GateGourmet flight kitchens. The contract that Aramark has with Amtrak used to belong to GateGourmet; prior to that it was held by an outfit called Dobbs. Before that, up till the late 90's, all commissary work was performed by Amtrak employees. It would be interesting to compare the losses then to the losses now.
Making rational decisions starts with rational comparisons. Suggesting Amtrak and everything else cannot be compared seems destined to make any planning flawed.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Sam1 CMStPnP: Sam1: I spent more than 40 years flying commercial as part of my job. I never got a meal on an airplane that was very good. In fact, after the first couple of years, when the thrill of flying for business had worn off, I avoided the meals on the airplane even though they were priced into the cost of the ticket. The domestic airlines finally figured it out, thanks in no small part to Southwest Airlines, which never offered meals. Most people want to get from point A to B as cheaply as possible. They don't want meals that are prepared in a commissary, put on the plane, re-heated and served, especially when most of the meals were not as good as folks could get at their local cafeteria. Southwest figured out what the market wants. I made 22 trips between the United States and Australia, where I lived and worked for five years. Most of my trips were on Qantas, although approximately 25 per cent of them were on United. The meals on Qantas and United were of similar quality and quantity. None of them, however, were what one could get at a decent middle grade restaurant. 600k air miles under my belt on American Airlines. I think their first class service as far as food is concerned is more than acceptable to me. Never had a meal in First Class I didn't enjoy on American. My observations of other airlines: America West Coach (pass the candy bar basket........really?........merged into US Scare) Delta Air Lines Coach (Kool Aide as a beverage?.........really?) Midwest Airlines All Business Class Airline (fairly decent meals back when they were complimentary........now the airline is out of business). Became Frontier, what a CF Frontier is. Never flew Air Scam before Southwest bought them, I tend to avoid the cattle car airlines, life is too short already. First class and business class meals tend to be better than those served in coach class, if the coach passengers get a meal, which they usually do on long overseas flights. However, first class and business class is an exception. Very few people can afford to fly either class. And most of those who fly first class and business class are travelling on an expense account. If it were not for the coach passengers, there would be no first and business class. To the best of my knowledge, none of the all first class or all business class airlines have survived.The same concept applies to passenger rail. If it were not for the coaches there probably would be no sleeping cars and no full service dinning cars. Of course, there was a time when all Pullman car trains (Broadway Limited, Twentieth Century Limited, etc.) were viable, but they are long gone.
CMStPnP: Sam1: I spent more than 40 years flying commercial as part of my job. I never got a meal on an airplane that was very good. In fact, after the first couple of years, when the thrill of flying for business had worn off, I avoided the meals on the airplane even though they were priced into the cost of the ticket. The domestic airlines finally figured it out, thanks in no small part to Southwest Airlines, which never offered meals. Most people want to get from point A to B as cheaply as possible. They don't want meals that are prepared in a commissary, put on the plane, re-heated and served, especially when most of the meals were not as good as folks could get at their local cafeteria. Southwest figured out what the market wants. I made 22 trips between the United States and Australia, where I lived and worked for five years. Most of my trips were on Qantas, although approximately 25 per cent of them were on United. The meals on Qantas and United were of similar quality and quantity. None of them, however, were what one could get at a decent middle grade restaurant. 600k air miles under my belt on American Airlines. I think their first class service as far as food is concerned is more than acceptable to me. Never had a meal in First Class I didn't enjoy on American. My observations of other airlines: America West Coach (pass the candy bar basket........really?........merged into US Scare) Delta Air Lines Coach (Kool Aide as a beverage?.........really?) Midwest Airlines All Business Class Airline (fairly decent meals back when they were complimentary........now the airline is out of business). Became Frontier, what a CF Frontier is. Never flew Air Scam before Southwest bought them, I tend to avoid the cattle car airlines, life is too short already.
So why would one compare coach class airline meals to first class passenger rail meals? You know in today's dollars it cost $900.00 to travel from Chicago to Seattle on the Great Northern Emplire Builder in 1952, Was that Coach class or was that First Class? I tend to think it was a First Class train at those prices. I would also tend to think a good portion of the Dining Car fare today is sold or is complimentary to Sleeping Car Passengers vs those that ride in Coach. A lot of those that ride in Coach pack their own food and suppliment from the Cafe Car with an occassional Dining Car visit.
Francine Amtrak employees do not work in the commissaries. They only work on the trains. The commissaries are staffed by a company called Aramark. The whole business of providing food to the trains is contracted out to Aramark, who in turn buys the food from GateGourmet flight kitchens. The contract that Aramark has with Amtrak used to belong to GateGourmet; prior to that it was held by an outfit called Dobbs. Before that, up till the late 90's, all commissary work was performed by Amtrak employees. It would be interesting to compare the losses then to the losses now.
Then why keep open 12 Amtrak Commissaries vs using the existing commissaries these firms already have in place? There is something in the fine print of the contracting agreement I will bet you that keeps the commissaries open. So the question is why are they kept open and why can't they be consolidated for greater cost savings?
Francine That's not exactly what happened. Subway (the sandwich franchise) had a short-term trial contract with Amtrak which started just before Thanksgiving, which is Amtrak's heaviest travel time. The service lasweeklies than a week. Three minimum-wage Subway employees did the job of one Amtrak service attendant during that time. Sales were poor. Union reps boarded the train one morning and distributed literature to the passengers, detailing the numerous responsibilities and training of Amtrak employees. One of the Subway attendants called his supervisor and read the literature to him over the phone. The supervisor told him to pack it up, the contract was over. Subway used the incident to get out of a money-losing proposition. Amtrak didn't back out; Subway did. I was on the train that day and witnessed the entire incident. There was never any talk of a strike.
I am sure I don't have it exactly right, however there has to be a bit more to the story than you state.
1. You cannot tell whether an enterprise will be profitable after just one day - so "money-losing proposition", nobody can know. I DO know that the thoughput of 3 Subway employees assembling subs is much higher than a single attendant nuking burgers and pizza.
2. "numerous responsibilities and training of Amtrak employees." The non-Amtrak guys on the Downeaster are doing just fine. Safety training isn't a show stopper.
3. Packing up after on day sounds like two things happened. Intimidation by union and Amtrak caving in, leaving Subway in the lurch. It is always easier for Amtrak mgt. to cave in. They never have anything to gain by fighting.
I was THERE and I know exactly what went down that day. Subway pulled out. I talked to the Subway employees for 2 hours on the journey to New York after they stopped selling their goods. They were apologetic, as they had no idea and no intention of being part of a union-busting maneuver. They didn't pack up after one day. They packed up on Day 5, 15 minutes after the union reps handed out the literature, 5 minutes after a phone call to their boss. Amtrak was decidedly NOT happy with the turn of events, as Thanksgiving week was looming.
Downeaster is a state-funded train. Their model doesn't translate to a national railroad reality.
Safety is of paramount importance in transportation. You have no idea how grueling a food service job on Amtrak is. In these times of high unemployment, the turnover rate for newly-hired LSAs is astonishing. It is not a 9 to 5 job. It is not a job with weekends and holidays off. It is not a job with paid sick days. Overtime is paid only after 185 hours are worked in a month. Ask an engineer, ask a conductor, what is the hardest job at Amtrak?
The commissaries have always been there. The LSA has to report there, and finish up the trip there, to verify the stock counts. I doubt if it would be feasible to report to the flight kitchen to verify the stock, and then travel with the stock to the train station, wait for the commissary personnel to transfer the stock into a smaller truck which can deliver the stock to the train on the platform.
Trains are also restocked en route. To transport the stock from the flight kitchen rather than a local commissary would likely be costly if not impossible. For instance, an LSA runs out of sandwiches, beer, and soda on a trip from Washington to Boston. An order is phoned in, and the New York commissary personnel meets the train in Penn Sation with the goods. Now imagine that this order had to be delivered from the flight kitchen at LaGuardia Airport. Yikes!
You are right about examining the fine print in the contract between Amtrak, Aramark, and Gate Gourmet. According to this government report, the contract was a verbal one between the former president of Amtrak and the president of Gate Gourmet. Although the report is from 2006, it is interesting reading and gives insight into the root of the problem. Employee theft has much less to do with Amtrak's food service losses than mismanagement and lack of accountability. The problem starts at the top, not at the bottom.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GAOREPORTS-GAO-05-867/html/GAOREPORTS-GAO-05-867.htm
schlimm From the airport financials (link in your linked article) for 2011, it looks like the airport expenses + depreciation exceed revenue. What that actually means, i will leave to the accountants.
From the airport financials (link in your linked article) for 2011, it looks like the airport expenses + depreciation exceed revenue. What that actually means, i will leave to the accountants.
Here is a short explanation of the two issues (one of which has been removed by the moderator) regarding Denver International Airport.
The airport's 2011 operating revenues were $602.7 million. Operating income before depreciation and amortization was $209.9 million. Operating income after depreciation and amortization was $30.8 million. Non operating revenues and expenses, as well as capital grants, when netted against operating income, resulted in a loss and reduction in net assets of $9.9 million, thereby leaving a net assets balance of $545.1 million.
Over time the increase or decrease in net assets provides an indication of DIA's financial performance. The substantial net assets balance indicates that DIA has covered its expenses since it began operations.
The financial information for DIA, which opened in 1995, is available in the airport's annual audited financial reports. The 2000 through 2011 reports are on-line.
The initial capitalized cost of DIA to the Denver Airport System was $4.2 billion. The $4.8 billion figure includes costs to others, e.g. FAA, rental car operators, etc. In addition, the city and state undoubtedly incurred some costs, e.g. access roads, water and sewer lines, etc. At the end of 2011 the capitalized cost of the airport was $5.0 billion, less accumulated depreciation of $2.3 billion, for a net balance of $2.7 billion, before adjustments for CWIP, land rights, air rights, etc. Due to on-going construction, the capitalized cost of the airport changes annually.
Approximately 95% of the capitalized cost of DIA was funded with municipal bonds. Institutional investors purchased most of them. Grants and other resources covered the remainders of the construction costs. The Denver taxpayers did not fund the airport.
The airport's finances are very complex. A comprehensive understanding of them would require a thorough read of the 2011 annual report, which is 80 pages, as well as prior years financials, which would involve hundreds of pages.
DIA has covered its operating expenses since opening for business. However, it has had some years when total expenses exceeded total revenues, thereby resulting in a loss and a decrease in net assets. The airport appears to have some financial stresses, primarily associated with an on-going construction program, but the rating agencies have scored the airports bonds A+, A1, and A+, which indicates they are sound investment grade.
DIA has nothing to do with this topic. However, missimpressions regarding the financing of the airport, which popped-up in two postings, should be addressed.
Francine I was THERE and I know exactly what went down that day. Subway pulled out. I talked to the Subway employees for 2 hours on the journey to New York after they stopped selling their goods. They were apologetic, as they had no idea and no intention of being part of a union-busting maneuver. They didn't pack up after one day. They packed up on Day 5, 15 minutes after the union reps handed out the literature, 5 minutes after a phone call to their boss. Amtrak was decidedly NOT happy with the turn of events, as Thanksgiving week was looming. Downeaster is a state-funded train. Their model doesn't translate to a national railroad reality. Safety is of paramount importance in transportation. You have no idea how grueling a food service job on Amtrak is. In these times of high unemployment, the turnover rate for newly-hired LSAs is astonishing. It is not a 9 to 5 job. It is not a job with weekends and holidays off. It is not a job with paid sick days. Overtime is paid only after 185 hours are worked in a month. Ask an engineer, ask a conductor, what is the hardest job at Amtrak?
As a frequent Amtrak rider, as well as dinning car patron, I can attest to the grueling challenges faced by the on-board food service staff. Near the top of the list is the unrealistic expectation of many of the patrons.
The Downeaster is like any other day train corridor. Where the money comes from doesn't change the the nature of the train or the service, physically.
I have no doubt at all that Amtrak employees work hard. They work VERY hard, most of them. That is exactly the problem. For the amount of "production" i.e. passenger miles traveled , meals served, bags checked, there are too many labor hours. Amtrak's management is not rewarded for figuring out how to do things better, faster, cheaper. In fact, they are de-facto punished for trying.
Sam, your comment about over what is expected is interesting. I think the image of train travel has been one of glamour and romance...anything less than a Lucious Beebe presentation is a let down. Yeah, reality sucks.
And Don, I disagree with the concept that The Downeaster is like any other trains service. Each railroad and each section of the country are all different as is the local population. The money doesn't change the nature of the train, right, but the geography and market, the marketing, the schedules, the train make up, reason for the service and the other influences of politics, culture, and history of the railroad and the area certainly have impact. Downeaster is not Empire Builder, ACELA, Crescent, or a San Diegan nor are any of them a Downeaster. One of the problems of "Mc'ing" our country is the lack of acknowledgement of parochialism and provincial differences. Big and all the same is not better but acknowledgement of and acceptance of differences has proven more true in many economic ways....
The one segment of Amtrak which is I find not to like is its food service. We all agree its lousy and something needs to be changed. The losses amount to over 80 million yrly. I ride Amtrak only once a yr and when on coach will not use the diner car and many times will avoid buying something from the lounge if possible. Last month I went on a vac trip to DC--riding the Capitol out and Cardinal back. Was first class both ways, thus since the cost of meals were already included in the fare I used the dining service. The prices are way too high, quality of food keeps going down and I have also noticed that less riders are using the dining cars. For some selections priced at over 20.00 and some at 25.00 who can blame them? At my meal times in the diner on the Cap and diner/lounge on the Cardinal, the car was less then half full at any given time I was in there. The time has come to slash the diners period. As my thoughts have always been do we as taxpayers need to pay for someones chicken *** and green beans? This is not being anti Amtrak. I support it, would love to see service expanded to KS but are the full service diners, which are too pricy and loosing business, really needed anymore? Also Sam, my name is Sam also!!
The last time I ate in an Amtrak full-service dining car was the winter of 1995-1996, northbound on one of the Florida "Silver" trains. Judging from other postings, I thought that meal quality has held up, but the above post says the opposite. I am very sorry to learn that, because dining car meals were always a high point of my many long distance train trips, and the average quality was very high indeed, both in the days of the best streamliners and during Amtrak's operations. When I came across the automat car on SP's Coast Daylight or only snack's on what had been the Twilight Limiited, of course I was dissapointed.
Anyone that thinks dining service in rail transportation is a profit center is deserving of buying the swamp land from Death Valley. Food on moving trains has never been profitable when fully allocated costs are applied, even in the heyday of the passenger train.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Of course Amtrak loses money on the food and beverage service, it is not in the fast food or restaurant business. If memory serves me Disney had lousy fast food until it contracted it out.
Why not test the waters and see if a company in the business could take over the business and pay Amtrak a percentage. What have they got to lose?
It has been tried but with little success. No company actually understands how to feed people at speed rather than on speed.
SFbrkmn For some selections priced at over 20.00 and some at 25.00 who can blame them?
For some selections priced at over 20.00 and some at 25.00 who can blame them?
But then to someone like me, that's not so bad. Going to Subway for lunch runs me about $10. We have $7 footlongs (but still get the $5 footlong commercials, of course).
Personally, ending food service would spell the end of my use of Amtrak, permanently. Being able to eat en route is one of the major selling points for me.
Those waters have been tested. I don't know if you read my post on how Subway tried to do it. Some people here hail the Nor'Easter as a success story in the food service question. Their contractor, Epicurean Feast, also operates at a loss (duh), which is gladly picked up by the State of Maine.
Someone has to pick up the losses of providing food service on a train. Town, City, State, Country. Take your pick. No one can make money serving food on a train. If you don't believe me, try it yourself.
What have they got to lose? Money. Subway (the sandwich chain) tried it and lost money. The much-heralded Epicurean Feast who feeds Downeaster passengers loses money. The State of Maine picks up their losses.
NittanyLion Personally, ending food service would spell the end of my use of Amtrak, permanently. Being able to eat en route is one of the major selling points for me.
Ditto here. Along with the lounge car, the dining car is one of the great time-shorteners on a trip, an indispensible part of the "getting there is half the fun" experience. Take away these features that have always uniquely defined train travel, and you might as well have the trains too.
I feel the same way about my roomette.
henry6 It has been tried but with little success. No company actually understands how to feed people at speed rather than on speed.
Outside of outsourcing the food service on the Downeaster and the Piedmont (I believe that these were mentioned previously), where else has Amtrak outsourced the food service?
To give it a true market test, Amtrak should try it out of a major operating base. For example, if it outsourced the food service on all of the trains operating out of Los Angeles, it would cover long distance and short haul trains. The service may have to be subsidized, at least initially, but if it were structured properly, I'll bet a private operator could deliver a better service than is currently the case.
Seemingly forever people said that the electric power industry could not be de-regulated and opened to competition. They were wrong. It has happened in many places with good results. The biggest hurtle were the orthodox people who insisted that it could not be done. And to prove it they insisted that those who favored a market solution for the power industry should not be allowed to try it.
Francine Those waters have been tested. I don't know if you read my post on how Subway tried to do it. Some people here hail the Nor'Easter as a success story in the food service question. Their contractor, Epicurean Feast, also operates at a loss (duh), which is gladly picked up by the State of Maine. Someone has to pick up the losses of providing food service on a train. Town, City, State, Country. Take your pick. No one can make money serving food on a train. If you don't believe me, try it yourself.
If food service is a critical component for train travel and the customers won't pay its full cost, then it has to be subsidized. The key management question is what business model results in the lowest subsidy? Outsource it to a contractor or use in-house employees?
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