Note to potential terrorists - Don't carry a bag or backpack onto Amtrak. Just leave that big, heavy winter coat on your seat and move to the far end of the car.
As for me, that just drove a spike through any interest I've ever had in riding Amtrak.
Chuck
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
The announcement is on the Amtrak website:
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Copy/News_Release_Page&c=am2Copy&cid=1178294112060&ssid=180
Typical American (or more accurately, Bush-era) approach: an expensive, cumbersome exercise that does more to scare the citizenry than address a real problem in an effective manner. The Europeans and Israelis - who know about true security - think we are ridiculous.
It does NOT scare me, it makes me feel more Secure.
A dog snifs your bag as you wait to board. Something doesn't look right, they may want to check further.
Most trains are "All Reserved" they already know who you are and if you are a frequent traveler who use and/or enjoy the train. Remember, the 9/11 highjackers could have been spotted and stopped with what we now know about security.
The true danger of an attack is to our Economy, it's not to our Passenger trains but disrupting our Freight network.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
Phoebe Vet wrote:If I could get the Supreme Court to appoint ME President, that spookey Orwellian Department of Homeland Security would be gone by the end of January.
and mega- !!!
But first, as President you ought to make sure the public is educated enough to read Orwell's 1984 for themselves, which to my way of thinking is just as chilling as the first time I read it in the Sixties. "War Is Peace" "Ignorance is Strength" "Farm-raised salmon are wild" --the third one wasn't said by Orwell.
I have that book, and have lent it to several people.
When it was written in 1947, it was a work of fiction, depicting what the world might be like in 1984 if Germany had won WW-II.
It has turned out to be prophesy. It should be read in school.
Phoebe Vet wrote: I have that book, and have lent it to several people.When it was written in 1947, it was a work of fiction, depicting what the world might be like in 1984 if Germany had won WW-II.It has turned out to be prophesy. It should be read in school.
I find it depressing that 1984 is not read in school.
Amtrak77 wrote: Phoebe Vet wrote:If I could get the Supreme Court to appoint ME President, that spookey Orwellian Department of Homeland Security would be gone by the end of January.all in favor?!
Aye!! Motion carries (I hope)
It was required reading for my sophmore english class in highschool 10 years ago... Interesting story but thast all it is, a story and 100% fiction at that. The only people who compare the real world to that book spend most there time running around in tinfoil hats
Mr_Ash wrote: Phoebe Vet wrote: I have that book, and have lent it to several people.When it was written in 1947, it was a work of fiction, depicting what the world might be like in 1984 if Germany had won WW-II.It has turned out to be prophesy. It should be read in school.It was required reading for my sophmore english class in highschool 10 years ago... Interesting story but thast all it is, a story and 100% fiction at that. The only people who compare the real world to that book spend most there time running around in tinfoil hats
Any thoughtful person who has read and heard the justifications of the misadventure in Iraq by the current regime in Washington and the actions of the Committee for State Security (DHS to the unknowing) would find a comparison to the world found in the pages of "1984" to be quite apt.
Phoebe Vet wrote: Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. George Orwell (1903 - 1950)
IS IT JUST ME, or are there four void postings above Phoebe Vet's posting?
allen
All this is more scare the public, Homeland Security, Bush hype that is mostly a waste of time & money. Outside of the NEC, I really can't see anything of a threat to Amtrk riders. Last month I took a 12 state 5100 mile trip on three long distance trains. I feel as safe on a Amtrk today no more than I did 20 yrs ago. There just isn't a threat there. Outside of more police seen @ the stations in LA and El Paso, the only "Homeland Security" was when #2 stopped in Del Rio--out in the middle of nowhere. A Homeland Security agent boarded the train to make a inspection and we were told by the condr there was gonna be a slght delay account of that. One of the riders on my car was from Marfa and he stated folks in TX are fed up w/all this Homeland Security and wish it would go away. You cannot take the same procedures in place @ NYC and custom fit it for a lil place like Del Rio. What is someone going to attack? The catcus in front of the depot I was standing next to?
SFbrkmn wrote: All this is more scare the public, Homeland Security, Bush hype that is mostly a waste of time & money. ... You cannot take the same procedures in place @ NYC and custom fit it for a lil place like Del Rio. What is someone going to attack? The catcus in front of the depot I was standing next to?
All this is more scare the public, Homeland Security, Bush hype that is mostly a waste of time & money.
...
You cannot take the same procedures in place @ NYC and custom fit it for a lil place like Del Rio. What is someone going to attack? The catcus in front of the depot I was standing next to?
example of security measures that are wast of time and money, 30th St Station Phila, and I assume NY Penn Station, Amtrak checks tickets at the top of the stairway on the north side of the concourse, but usually leave the stariway at the south side protected with just a velvet rope, both stairways lead to the same platform.
That was true about 2 years ago, the last time I accompanied anyone to catch a train. She went down the attended north stairway with her ticket, I went down the unattended south stairway so I could kiss her goobye at trainside. All I had to do was unclip the velvet rope and reclip it afterward.
So we have extra personnel being wasted examining tickets at the top of 1 of 2 stairs, but nobody looks at the tickets again until after the train's underway.
And nobody looks at tickets at Trenton, Newark Airport or Newark, and I assume New Carrolton, BWI, Baltimore, Wilmington, New Rochelle, Stamford, Rt 128 or Back Bay, where Amtrak shares platforms with commuter trains. So what enhanced security did we get by making sure the terrorist had a reserved ticket at Union Station DC, but not at BWI? I haven't looked into what these new and improved security measures are, did they fix this loophole, or move the resources for this useless ticket inspecting task to something more effective?
Patrick Boylan
Free yacht rides, 27' sailboat, zip code 19114 Delaware River, get great Delair bridge photos from the river. Send me a private message
There is nothing political about complaining when the government treats you like a criminal just in case you might be.
When I was a police officer (now retired) we were constantly reminded that 99% of the people with which we came in contact are honest citizens who deserve to be treated with respect.
People have a RIGHT to go about their daily lives without being hassled by government agents.
While it is occasionally necessary to invade that privacy, each individual case must be justified by an articulable reason. Even the cases where a warrant cannot be obtained because of the circumstances, the justification must be the same as what would be required to get the warrant, and court hearings after the fact are available to the person searched or detained where the police officer must be able to justify his actions.
A police officer could not even stop a vehicle on the highway unless he could articulate a reason why he believed the operator was violating the law, or was in some way incapacitated, or where traffic needed to be diverted for safety. Diversion for safety does not constitute authority to search or detain the vehicle or operator.
Unlike you, I value that freedom. It is worth the very minor risk of some criminal activity getting by unnoticed. The simple fact is that you have a greater chance of being struck by lightning than you do of being the victim of a terror attack.
If you are afraid to get on the train (or airplane) until the government background checks and searches every other passenger then, by all means, stay home. I find your desire to have ME searched offensive.
Land of the free and home of the brave no longer seems to apply.
On that we agree.
I have no problem with security people on patrol. I also have no problem with searches for cause. I don't think it's necessary, but I do not find it offensive.
Phoebe Vet wrote:Remember the old days, when Americans had a spine?
Well, yes. I remember being told in high school that some of the joys of being American citizens (besides just having a leg-up on a high standard of living) were --
(1) not being afraid of that "knock on the door" by the authorities in the middle of the light;
(2) never having to worry about a wiretap unless some sort of warrant was in effect;
(3) not taking political prisoners without cause*; and
(4) no restrictions on exports -- tariffs on imports, perhaps, but no on exports.
Some of those freedoms were eroding anyway, apparently none of them has survived the Patriot Act.
____________
* At least a couple of years before 9/11, 60 Minutes reported that there were [are?] several Irish nationalists held in a Boston prison without charge by specific request of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, but that's the only true "throw 'em in the dungeon" situation I can think of. At least, not without some attempt at Due Process.
It's true that we have been slowly sliding down the slippery slope for a long time, but this administration (& I mean both teams) has just jumped off the cliff.
I'm glad I'm old. I lived most of my life in the good times. I feel sorry for my grandchildren. But then, they probably won't miss it, because they've never had it. When we began the "war on drugs" and began searching school lockers and backpacks regularly, we began raising an entire generation to believe that it is normal to be searched and spied on by people in authority whenever the mood strikes them. Now the oldest of those children ARE the people in authority.
Phoebe Vet wrote: It's true that we have been slowly sliding down the slippery slope for a long time, but this administration (& I mean both teams) has just jumped off the cliff.I'm glad I'm old. I lived most of my life in the good times. I feel sorry for my grandchildren. But then, they probably won't miss it, because they've never had it. When we began the "war on drugs" and began searching school lockers and backpacks regularly, we began raising an entire generation to believe that it is normal to be searched and spied on by people in authority whenever the mood strikes them. Now the oldest of those children ARE the people in authority.
I quite agree, and feel also that when kids have no liberties nor freedoms, evading authority becomes the norm. There must be all kinds of reasons, but apparently the Baby Boomers (of which I am one) shook "the rules" so violently that we left the path open for the past couple of generations. Perhaps this critique has been going on for generations, but I think the last couple of generations grew up in a moral limbo (I won't say vacuum), in which everything is relative: cheating on tests is OK if everybody does it, leaving the scene of an accident is OK if you're busy; lying to authority is just fine if it makes one more comfortable -- all of this leading [to get a bit hard-edged and glamourous about it] to the kind of behvior exemplified in high relief in the recent movie Alpha Dog, in which anomic "nice kids from the suburbs" wind up conspiring and/or contributing to murder -- and for no good reason, not even a selfish one.
In fact, anyone out there, if you can stand "M-F-ing" language as rank as Snoop Dogg on speed, IMHO Alpha Dog is a really good movie filled with great performances by a huge cast (incl. Sharon Stone, Bruce Willis, and Justin Timberlake). People in their forties and fifties are clearly shown as letting their kids run wild; in essence these elders-but-perhaps-no-betters fluff their responsibilities in search of narcissistic horizons all their own. Result? Justin Timberlake excels playing a good-times party boy who, apparently having no confidence in his own personality or judgment, puts on a "gangsta" attitude and sets up a series of tragic resuls. This is based on a real case in Southern California that played out in the late Nineties and early part of this decade. Alpha Dog is now on DVD BTW IIRC(!). It's the kind of movie in which "there are no good people" (well, actually a couple, but they don't predominate), but draws a clear moral. There re many other facets to this remarkable movie, but I really can't do them justice.
Phoebe Vet, insofar as this thread now discussed partisan politics, it is quite likely to be censored or deleted by bergie or whomever; I'll send you my regular e-mail addess if you'd like to continue this dialog.
al
While we probably have stepped over the line, it's hard to discuss paranoid security without some reference to the people who have implemented it.
We have probably beat it to death anyway. Sadly, I doubt we will change any minds.
Phoebe Vet wrote: While we probably have stepped over the line, it's hard to discuss paranoid security without some reference to the people who have implemented it.We have probably beat it to death anyway. Sadly, I doubt we will change any minds.
Well, it isn't all THAT terrible. I for one don't want to be known as a Johnny One-Note and at the risk of being presumptuous I'd guess you feel the same.
If we have led one or two readers in the direction of George Orwell's 1984, and if it is read not as failed science-fiction but as allegory, we'll have done some good.
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