Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
On the Jet Plane or stuck in traffic on the freeway.
The death of the US Govt Mail contracts were the last stake in Passenger service of the time.
Safety Valve wrote: On the Jet Plane or stuck in traffic on the freeway.The death of the US Govt Mail contracts were the last stake in Passenger service of the time.
Shops for steam engines kept many on hand. They probably used thier skills in another employment when all the steam went away and left them with very little to work on. Maybe some were re-trained and sent to the desiel or wheel shop.
Pullman was it's own "Railroad" with thier own employees wasnt it?
Also you would think the associated support such as Commissary (Spelling?), Laundry etc... would also pass on.
I went to work for the ICG in 1976, five years after Amtrak took over.
We had several former passenger department employees working in marketing, filing rates with the Interstate Commerce Commission, doing sales support work (IIRC one actually became a freight salesman.), etc. We even had a cook off one of the diners doing rate work.
There was an effort to keep 'em around until retirement.
I took a ride on the South Shore one Sunday for fun. The conductor was a former Pulman conductor working out his time till retirement on the CSS&SB.
The same thing happened when the Rock Island died. The other ralroads in Chicago made an effort to fill available positions with displaced RI employees.
We got a real turkey out of that deal. But by then that cook had retired - so we had to live with the Rock Island's displaced turkey.
"Twilight of the Great Trains" is a great book, isn't it.
greyhounds wrote: "Twilight of the Great Trains" is a great book, isn't it.
I grew up in Altoona, PA during the 1940s and 50s. Altoona was the home of the heavy works of the Pennsylvania Railroad. It was also a crew change point for all trains running between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh. My father was an attorney, but most of my friend's fathers were railroaders. And many of them worked in passenger service.
I graduated from high school in 1957. At that time there were approximately 38 passenger train movements a day through Altoona. But shortly thereafter the PRR began to cut back on passenger service. The cost of the passenger's trains was killing the railroad, and it decided to reduce significantly the number of trains.
Some of the engineers, firemen, conductors, and trainmen retired as the trains were discontinued. But many others when back to freight service. As I remember it, in those days the passenger guys, for the most part, at least in Altoona, had started in freight service, and they held seniority across the railroad. So if they lost a passenger job, they could go back to freight.
I also believe that there was no mandatory retirement age on the railroad. If a man could pass his annual physical, he could continue to work. The choice assignments, i.e. Broadway Limited, Pittsburgher, General, were frequently crewed by men in their 70s. And rumor had it one of the engineers on the Broadway was near 80.
I
Samantha wrote: ...........I graduated from high school in 1957. At that time there were approximately 38 passenger train movements a day through Altoona. .........
...........I graduated from high school in 1957. At that time there were approximately 38 passenger train movements a day through Altoona. .........
When Amtrak was first formed, participation was not cumpulsory. Some railroads turned their passenger service and stock over to Amtrak and some did not.
The building of the interstate highway system and the rapidly growing airlines put pressure on the railroads, and the railroads were very slow to adapt.
Passenger service requires better track maintainance than freight and passenger trains cannot bring in anywhere near the revenue that freight can. As the railroads began merger mania in an attempt to avoid bankrupsy, elimination of passenger service was really an obvious step.
Amtrak, in typical government run fashion, is still not competing, but rather is just maintaining business as usual. The stations are one level below the average bus station, their schedule is more like a rough estimate, and they never seem to wash the trains. One plus ... the Amtrak employees are all very friendly and helpfull.
When the airlines killed trans oceanic passenger ships, the owners competed by making the ships the REASON for the journey instead of trying to be efficient transportation. Now cuise ships are very successful. Railroads should also play to their strengths. Amtrak's autotrain is a great idea. A cruise train could tour several cities, sleeping on the train as it travels at night and spending entire days in different cities, perhaps in partnership with companies like Greyline Tours. Train travel should advertise, pointing out that they go from city center to city center. For trips of 500 miles or less, rail is actually FASTER than air when you measure point to point, not airport to airport. The station in Washington DC is two blocks from their convention center and within walking distance of the mall where most of the museums are. How many people know that? Offer restaurant chains the opportunity to put a car on commuter trains. Put entertainment of some kind at the seats. Movies, television, a GPS readout so you can see where you are and how fast you are going, or even video games. Partner with destination cities to build attractive stations that are co-located with the city's mass transit and conveniently located. You know, compete, don't just exist.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Phoebe Vet wrote: When Amtrak was first formed, participation was not cumpulsory. Some railroads turned their passenger service and stock over to Amtrak and some did not.The building of the interstate highway system and the rapidly growing airlines put pressure on the railroads, and the railroads were very slow to adapt.Passenger service requires better track maintainance than freight and passenger trains cannot bring in anywhere near the revenue that freight can. As the railroads began merger mania in an attempt to avoid bankrupsy, elimination of passenger service was really an obvious step.Amtrak, in typical government run fashion, is still not competing, but rather is just maintaining business as usual. The stations are one level below the average bus station, their schedule is more like a rough estimate, and they never seem to wash the trains. One plus ... the Amtrak employees are all very friendly and helpfull.When the airlines killed trans oceanic passenger ships, the owners competed by making the ships the REASON for the journey instead of trying to be efficient transportation. Now cuise ships are very successful. Railroads should also play to their strengths. Amtrak's autotrain is a great idea. A cruise train could tour several cities, sleeping on the train as it travels at night and spending entire days in different cities, perhaps in partnership with companies like Greyline Tours. Train travel should advertise, pointing out that they go from city center to city center. For trips of 500 miles or less, rail is actually FASTER than air when you measure point to point, not airport to airport. The station in Washington DC is two blocks from their convention center and within walking distance of the mall where most of the museums are. How many people know that? Offer restaurant chains the opportunity to put a car on commuter trains. Put entertainment of some kind at the seats. Movies, television, a GPS readout so you can see where you are and how fast you are going, or even video games. Partner with destination cities to build attractive stations that are co-located with the city's mass transit and conveniently located. You know, compete, don't just exist.
Amtrack has been starving at the soup line of the Congress Purse Money every fiscal year. The NE Corridor rusts and tries to keep up.
The only time everyone lauds Amtrack as a hero or life saver is when vicious winterstorms shut down area airports and the NEC continues to function for a while until switches freeze up.
I hear stories that Amtrack offered to whisk thousands out of New Orleans before Katrina arrived but were turned down. Apparently the United States is not some third world nation reliant on it's rails to rescue people who cannot get out anyhow.
I worked for the Burlington Northern from 1980 to 1986, We had a lot of ex-passenger service agents in the PR department (especially in community relations positions), some in marketing and some filing, etc. Most were good employees but some were just watching the calendar.
I apologize for taking so long to respond to your question. I have been out of pocket.
I don't know the number of freight trains that operated through Altoona in 1957. However, in the late 1950s and early 1960s the PRR ran an average of 900 freight trains a day. They included through freights trains as well as local trains.
All the east west through trains, i.e. New York to Chicago, Washington to Chicago, etc. went through Altoona. In addition, a significant number of coal trains from the mines just west of Altoona rambled through town on their way to the east coast. As I remember it, many of them were bound for Baltimore, which had significant coal loading facilities for export coal. Lastly, there were several car transfer trains from the Samuel Rae Shops in Hollidaysburg as well as a local from Roaring Spring, Bedford, and Duncansville.
We lived near the Horseshoe Curve. During the summer we slept with the windows open because, amongst other things, we could not afford an air conditioner. I remember hearing the trains working up the hill to and beyond the curve all night long. And in the mornings I could see the brake shoe smoke waffling over the curve.
When I was off from school, sometimes with official approval and sometimes without it, I would frequently ride my bike up to the curve. It was not unusual to see 10 to 15 trains go by in a couple of hours.
My guess is that there were 75 to 100 freight trains of all descriptions that went through Altoona every day, but it is only a guess. I will keep looking to see if I can come up with a freight schedule, although it would not be an absolute indicator because so many of the trains were classified as extras.
Safety Valve wrote:Amtrack has been starving at the soup line of the Congress Purse Money every fiscal year. The NE Corridor rusts and tries to keep up.The only time everyone lauds Amtrack as a hero or life saver is when vicious winterstorms shut down area airports and the NEC continues to function for a while until switches freeze up.I hear stories that Amtrack offered to whisk thousands out of New Orleans before Katrina arrived but were turned down. Apparently the United States is not some third world nation reliant on it's rails to rescue people who cannot get out anyhow.
Yeah, I read that Amtrak dead heading passenger equipment and other stuff out of their New Orleans maintenace facility that we could have put people and other stuff on. Amtrak is essentially what I would call the black sheep of America's publicly funded transportation industry. It was set up to make a profit on train travel from railroads that were losing tons of money on passenger trains. Did I miss something there? I mean take a look at it from the get go. sure, I agree they should strive to make as much as possible to close the gap between money from revenue and money from Congress. But Congress has also held them in a bind. If you think about, every means public transportation is funded by the government and it all comes down to how much.
I think that the process of getting rid of redundant employees is like stated above: attrition out by age or find other areas of the RR to work in.
It's also worth keeping in mind that the number of RR passenger-service employees was not commensurate with the plunge in passenger travel. When the 20th Century Limited carried 400 people, it needed a crew of about ten (engineer, fireman, baggage master, R.P.O., chief cook, waiter, cocktails steward, conductor, trainman, trainman) -- not counting Pullman employees. When the T.C. Limited was carrying 100 people, it probably needed seven or eight of the above employees -- maybe six after rail postal contracts were pulled starting in about 1967. - a. s.
daveklepper wrote:Many New Orleans Amtrak employees and possibly other railroaders did use the dead head equipment move as an evaculation train. But it was mostly empty.
Ironically I think now they want Amtrak to keep some equipment available as an evactuation train. Not that wikipedia is the best source, Labor Day Hurricane of 1935. That's the last time I know of the US attempting an evacuation train for a natural disaster. Read about the FEC evacuation train. It left Miami late cause the FEC didn't keep equipment ready to go during hurricane season. It takes a while to build up steam in the locomotive, then time to switch cars, etc....
Trinity Railway Express, with BNSF, sent 1 or 2 evac trains to Houston from Dallas for Hurricane Rita. They were used to move some ill and elderly up to DFW Metroplex.
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