I wish that DART would provide more detail routes of the proposed layout. Some of graphs show the general alignment...but I would love to have a detailed map that I could compare to a google earth version. (I'm a railfan that enjoys seeing the railroad under construction).
I live within two blocks of the McKinney Avenue Trolley. I ride it practically every day. I have not seen the Tandy PCC for more than six months. The McKinney Avenue Trolley Authority made a big mistake purchasing it. Several of the guys that have worked on it said that it is a nightmare to maintain, and it is difficult to operate. It is flat ugly, although I recognize that looks are in the eyes of the beholder.
There was an underground rail access to downtown Dallas. Part of it still exists and is used by delivery trucks. I cannot remember whether it ran under Pacific or Elm Street. In fact, it may have run under Jackson Street. The Santa Fe had a freight station on Jackson Street. It has been converted into condos.
The DART tunnel under Central Expressway was built because of Dallas politics. It was not part of the original game plan. Initially, DART planned to run the northbound line from downtown Dallas along the former Katy right of way to Mockingbird Lane. It goes through what is now Uptown Dallas, and it also borders Highland Park. The Highland Park folks, as well as others, objected to the plan and were able to use their considerable political clout - money - to force DART to abandon this part of their plan and build the very expensive tunnel under Central Expressway.
The Highland Park residents did not want transit running on the old Katy route, which has been converted into a nice hike and bike trail. However, they did not object to having the Katy service Highland Park Station in the 1950s when traveling by streamliner was popular.
The tunnel under Central Expressway cost heaps. As a result, DART did not have the money to put the trains under ground in downtown Dallas. Instead, it had to build a transit way. Moreover, in car crazed Dallas, it was not able to get the city and state to agree to give the trains priority over cars and trucks at the cross streets. Thus, DART's light rail trains crawl through downtown Dallas.
According to DART's chief executive officer, DART's light rail trains will get the capability to control the cross street traffic signals in a couple of years. Houston's light rail system has traffic signal priority, which means, as I understand it, that the signals are set to favor the trains as opposed to vehicles on the cross streets. I have ridden on the Houston light rail system. It gets through town faster than DART's light rail trains.
Say, does the Tandy subway still run over in Ft. Worth?
Thanks,
RE: tunnels under downtown Dallas
<> In answer to the very good questions raised here:
1. Prior to the 1916 opening of Dallas Union Terminal and the associated belt line (between the south side of downtown and the Trinity River, thence around the east side of what was then the edge of the city), the T&P ran east-west at grade (actually, on a slight embankment) on Pacific Avenue--that's where the street got its name. This was a two-track mainline plus associated drill tracks and industrial spurs, plus the trackage for the T&P passenger station. This line cut the city in half north-south. The original H&TC (later TNO/SP) alignment was at grade down the center of Central Avenue (now Central Expy/US75), and cut the city in half east-west. They had a joint station where they crossed, one of several that existed before DUT. The landmark George Kessler plan of 1913 proposed the creation of a union station and elimination of the tracks from both Central and Pacific Avenues, along with Trinity River levees and other improvements, many of which got built. The tracks were never really eliminated except in the immediate downtown area. The T&P still extended from the east almost to Central to access its original freight station and multiple industries still located east of downtown (in the general "Deep Ellum" area), and made it almost to Griffin from the west to serve the industries and warehouses in the West End. Similarly, the H&TC made it almost up to Pacific from the south to serve a yard and industries southeast of downtown in what was then called East Dallas, and then it was removed up to where it crossed the Katy at about Mockingbird Lane near SMU. From this point north it stayed in place as an industrial lead south from just south of Richardson, where the Belt Line rejoined it. This former H&TC line north of Mockingbird is the DART light rail to Plano. The former Katy main line east of this point is the DART light rail to Garland. There never was a railroad tunnel in downtown Dallas operated by either the T&P or the H&TC/TNO/SP.
2. The GC&SF (Santa Fe) did operate what is best described as a series of dead-end tunnels on the south side of downtown Dallas to provide access from their freight station trackage to the warehouse facilities in the Santa Fe Building (which was a complex of several very large buildings over several square blocks, and not just one building). These were spur tracks serving underground loading platforms. Santa Fe operated a fireless cooker on these tracks during the age of steam. By the late 1950's these facilities were largely out of service. I understand that most of these tunnels may still be there but are closed off and inaccessible. The Dallas Public Library and probably the Degolyer collection have photos of this trackage in service.
3. Other than the Santa Fe complex, the only additional railroad-related tunnel in downtown Dallas was the pedestrian concourse under the tracks added to DUT shortly after WWII when the Trinity River was relocated and the levees were built, producing the Trinity Industrial District in the old river bottoms and giving DUT a much-needed (at the time) parking lot west of the tracks. This was when the T&P relocated its freight station (which was just torn down in the last few months) to just west of Industrial and north of the main line northwest of DUT, and the RI relocated theirs from the south side of downtown to just north of Continental where I-35E and Continental intersect today. All of these facilities opened circa 1948. The former B-RI track parallel to I-35E in this area (that served the RI freight station) is now TRE/DART, and the American Airlines Center sits on the old Katy yard site. The Light rail running up to Victory is roughly on the old SSW ROW that was abandoned in the early 1960's when the Dallas North Tollway was built on it up to just south of the town of Addison.
4. The downtown commercial tunnels referenced in the discussion are products of downtown redevelopment originating with the Main Place project in the 1960's. This network has grown over time and now encompasses a significant portion of the downtown area, providing air-conditioned access to buildings, parking, and commercial establishments. None of the tunnels are associated with any railroads.
5. The DART tunnel was bored specifically for the light rail project.
Hope this info is useful.
railroadjj wrote:What info are you looking for. I might be able to find it for you and get you the link.
Thanks , I looked but didnt see what I was looking for.Good luck with your jobs guys.
Danny
railroadjj wrote: It looks to bewww.ridemetro.org
It looks to be
www.ridemetro.org
Sounds about the same as our garages here. I think our main one has about 250 or so buses. All the others probably have about 150 or so.
We also have a FLEX TRANS system for the severely disabled people who are not able to right fixed route buses. They go to the people's home and take them where they need to go.
Well, we have 3 garages,
East Dallas, or ED has 265 buses.
Northwest or NW has 245 buses
South Oak Cliff or SOC has like 165 buese.
Then we have out light rail which is S&I. No buses over there.
How many garages are there in DART?
We have 2 that are in Salt Lake and there is 1 in Ogden and 1 in Provo. So, you get hired on in one of those 3 places. Obviously the biggest is Salt Lake. I have never worked in either Ogden or Provo. That doesn't mean we don't drive routes that go there (mostly express routes), just that we are not assigned there.
Well, good luck with the job fair, I know we not only need operators, but need buses also. Let me know if you get the job. I work at all the garages so we are bound to meet sometime.
I am flying down for the job fair on the 26th of this month. I will then be moving down there during that weekend. I hope to be settled in by the 4th of July. I will be living in Garland. I hope that everything goes well there.
I had an opportunity to do the light rail here in Salt Lake during the Olympics. I turned it down at the last minute. I had been accepted into the program, but decided that it wasn't for me at the time.
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