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Gallery Commuter cars

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mdw
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Gallery Commuter cars
Posted by mdw on Monday, February 22, 2021 9:45 PM

With Metra ordering 500 new cars to replace all of the their huge gallery car fleet, the question comes up of what happens to all of those soon to be retired gallery cars?  Sadly the oldest PS and Budd cars (well over 50 years) will likely be scrapped (hopefully IRM gets one), but what about the many, many newer NS gallery cars?  It would seem they are too new to be scrapped.  What is the future of gallery cars? With Caltrain replacing their whole gallery car fleet with new EMU's, that would leave VRE as the last major operator of those cars.  Is there a need for maybe over 500 unneeded gallery cars?

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, February 24, 2021 7:01 AM

The newest ones might be rebuilt, reseated, for regional service to replace the oldest cars used in California, North Carolina and Virgina reginal services.


The last Chicago and Northwestern 400 trains show a possible pattern.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, February 24, 2021 10:08 AM

The "Peninsula 400" and "Flambeau 400" had long-distance 96-seat gallery coaches and some other cars that were specifically designed for the service.  They were not upgrades from suburban coaches.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by matthewsaggie on Wednesday, February 24, 2021 4:35 PM

NC has grants for new cars and locomotives.  We won't be taking any worn out gallery cars.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Thursday, February 25, 2021 4:54 AM

IMO the cars should be held in storage preferrability in dry area.  That is in case there is a demand for rail capacity for some reason that  we cannot even predict.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Thursday, February 25, 2021 7:53 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

The "Peninsula 400" and "Flambeau 400" had long-distance 96-seat gallery coaches and some other cars that were specifically designed for the service.  They were not upgrades from suburban coaches.

 

Designed for 400 service,  primarily with different interior configurations (fewer, more comfortable seats for coaches and parlor cars) but the same basic design as the 1958 P-S suburban order.  

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, February 25, 2021 8:04 PM

blue streak 1

IMO the cars should be held in storage preferrability in dry area.  That is in case there is a demand for rail capacity for some reason that  we cannot even predict.

You mean like these:

https://railpictures.net/photo/610802/

https://railpictures.net/photo/67852/

https://railpictures.net/photo/611412/

A comment on the third photo, TPHX = Tom Payne Holdings, some of you will probably recognize that name (the man himself passed away a couple years ago). 

In Canada he is best known for his career owning and operating the Central Western Railway in Alberta, which was Canada's first modern shortline.  Of course he later became rather infamous for other reasons. 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, February 25, 2021 9:16 PM

SD70Dude
Of course he later became rather infamous for other reasons.

You mean the conversion of 2100?

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, February 25, 2021 10:19 PM

Overmod
SD70Dude
Of course he later became rather infamous for other reasons.

You mean the conversion of 2100?

Yeah, that business.  At least the engine's in better hands now.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, February 26, 2021 7:30 AM

CSS:  The C&NW 400 gallery cars were designed specifically for 400 service but were also designed specifically for easy conversion to commuter coaches.

 But Amtrak did use them for a time.  Don't know whether lease or purchase, and what happened when they were replaced by French Turbos.

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, February 26, 2021 7:32 AM

And did not one of the luxury tour operators, possibly Rocky Mountain, have commuter galery cars rebuilt for sight-seing and meal sevice?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, February 26, 2021 10:03 AM

daveklepper

CSS:  The C&NW 400 gallery cars were designed specifically for 400 service but were also designed specifically for easy conversion to commuter coaches.

 But Amtrak did use them for a time.  Don't know whether lease or purchase, and what happened when they were replaced by French Turbos.

Amtrak purchased the cars and initially used them on various short-haul runs out of Chicago.  Eventually, they wound up on the Valparaiso suburban locals when Amtrak took over that service from Conrail.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, February 26, 2021 4:50 PM

daveklepper

And did not one of the luxury tour operators, possibly Rocky Mountain, have commuter galery cars rebuilt for sight-seing and meal sevice?

I think that was one of the Alaska operators, RMR's dome cars have all been built new, either by Colorado Railcar or in Europe.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 3, 2021 4:09 AM

The  new  MUs for CalTrain are the European-style muli-level variety and will rerplacde gallery cars:



Caltrain MU train enroute to Colorado. Photo – Lester Clark/Caltrain
 The prototype has arrived at the Transportation Technology Center Inc. in Pueblo, Colorado, for testi at high speeds under numerous conditions, as required by the Federal Railroad Administration, Eight months' testing will include braking, propulsion, ride quality, noise and vibration, door operation, positive train control and electromagnetic interference.  The train has seven cars compared with five or six now used by Caltrain behind or pushed bydiesels. Eight elecgtric motors are distributed throughout the train.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, March 3, 2021 10:01 AM

Eight motors for seven MU cars??  Sounds grossly underpowered to me even if some of the cars are trailers.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, March 3, 2021 11:06 AM

I assume there are two motors in each motor car, with this configuration:

Cab-motor

trailer

blind motor

trailer

blind motor

trailer

Cab-motor

Assuming each motor is 320HP, 2560HP total should be adequate.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, March 3, 2021 1:59 PM

I believe these are the motors in the KISS train sets:

https://tsa.at/references/stadler_rail_kiss_traction_motor

The six-car sets are 'top and tail' powered; all axles in the two cab cars are motored, with the four cars between being trailers.

Article in Railway Age from 2016 discussing the Caltrain project (explaining the acronyms for both KISS and FLIRT) is here:

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/intercity/for-caltrain-16-kisses-from-stadler-but-no-flirts/

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 4, 2021 8:54 AM

500 Kw =670.5 HP and Eight provides approx 5300 HP, more than enouigh!

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Posted by Sara T on Thursday, March 4, 2021 9:40 AM

Why is it so that internationally, worldwide, the design of every new car is so un-railway-like (railroad), so trivial, so hackneyed, so potty? Is there a secret coalition of railway or step-in non-railway designers to make every new train so repellent, so rebarbative or abhorrent for -- yes, for what reason? for what aim? Is there a secret contest to produce the train with the least flair, with absolutely no style, no attraction? The most boring and uninspired design seems to be the most celebrated?

This is a wide spread trend that involves other things, too: cars, houses --- In Munich the new underground or subway has a spectacular light effect that makes the most of telling (screaming at) people "YES, get in now !! (wide green light at door sides) / STOP!!! stay out !!!" (light changes to red) but the interior light is terrible on skin and makes everybody look like they are zombies! How can they do that to the public and get payed for it, too!?

SARA 05003

 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, March 4, 2021 10:04 AM

Aesthetics can be expensive.  The Stadtler cars, being designed for mass transit, are going to look more utilitarian and straightforward than long-haul equipment.  What, specifically, do you want?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, March 5, 2021 2:43 AM

The Stadler MUs may not be an SP Daylight or an Electroliner, but to my taste, they are a real esthetic improvement over the gallery cars they are replacing.

But the Denver single-level MUs are better looking, again for me..

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, March 6, 2021 6:28 AM

daveklepper

The Stadler MUs may not be an SP Daylight or an Electroliner, but to my taste, they are a real esthetic improvement over the gallery cars they are replacing.

But the Denver single-level MUs are better looking, again for me..

 

Definitely.  And a more comfortable, pleasant ride inside,  too. 

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Posted by Sara T on Saturday, March 6, 2021 9:48 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH wrote "What, specifically, do you want?"

At least no broken or weird proportions, fitting colors to railway equipment and if dual-color fitting to the other tone. Since in Europe the railways (here: -ways) gave up the everlasting universal green for passenger bogie cars, there has been a great straying around with colors token because they were different from the green before. That is not enough, colors transport the spirit of the company - this is an important message: modern - serious, reliable - fast, substantial and comfortable - cheap and tight space, --- 

A passenger train is something very different than an overland bus and it should be distinguished by the colors, not competing, and to be mixed up. In that, the now often chosen red in bright alarming tones is questionable. The Austrian railways for some time had a light apricot-red (almost orange - brrrr!) and cream (not white, not yellow, not sand color but just somewhat dirty looking) that was way too light and no bus enterprise would have painted their coaches this way! It looked like a 'five cent business'! Then they changed to a fire-red that would have been beneficial to find a train that had fallen from the Trisanna bridge - but not otherwise. Then they came to senses partly in painting the upper side in light grey and the lower in whitish grey, the roof now became a refuge for the inevitable red. Red stands for 'modern' 'fast' 'agile' and such things. If that was right then I ask why airlines don't jump at it. Instead they have and keep a lot of white and silver.

Silver cars (stainless steel) were one time present on DB - but not on fast and far traveling trains but on commuter trains and it was not kept up but allowed to deteriorate and weather into a shabby gray. It finally stood maybe for the light weight of these cars, the minimal upholstery of plastic seats but not for something fast and efficient. So they got rid of it: It was replaced by, take your breath, light green and greyish white. SEUFZ! The express trains were torn in two parts: the first class greyish white and red, the second class in an actually qualitatively superior looking blue and greyish white, both with a somehow mixed color stripe in between. They have meanwhile repaired that and have all passenger cars in red (upper) and white (lower) sides with grey roof that may stand as a cheap make-up for the former silver roof (in 'green times').

ÖBB now have a quite decent and modern looking color scheme on their fast Railjet express trains: dark grey lower side and dark red upper side with a lighter red stripe dividing the two areas. It looks distinguished, or, perhaps I was so impressed by the performance and smoothness of the train when I traveled one Vienna - Salzburg - Munich late at night, at first only because there was no other train. For me, this is the continuation of classy rail in modern times and it is highly successful. The Taurus BoBo electrics run, oh, hm, ever so slightly faster than we 05s did back in the fifties. No, they go much much faster and they don't take long to reach fast speeds - about the way we could do light engine, if hard pressed, huhuhuhu! But they do it with 12 to 14 bogie comfort cars. The design of the cars is smooth streamline but with sound proportions, the bogies are part of the whole, not suppressed, everything looks just right, the train definitely has a high-class aura about it.

0S5A0R0A3

 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, March 6, 2021 4:30 PM

Sara: The old red and beige/creme and blue/creme schemes on DB trains like Rheingold back in the late 60s (through late 70s?) were great looking.  

The gallery cars are mostly for commuter trains.  They were a big improvement for riders over 40+ year old equipment,  but the design is ~70 years old.  What is bad about them compared to locomotive-hauled DB double deckers is the interior,  reminiscent of a prison.

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Posted by Sara T on Sunday, March 7, 2021 8:21 AM

Charlie Hebdo

The electric TEE name trains of the 1960s and 70s: ok, but still they divided the train into the red/cream and the blue/cream section and the electric went with one section. I prefer all cars in one color scheme and the loco in another so you can see this is the propulsion and that is the train.

You wrote >>What is bad about them compared to locomotive-hauled DB double deckers is the interior,  reminiscent of a prison<<

Do you mean DB: Deutsche Bundesbahn? or is it one American RR?

Double deckers: ohohoh, DB cars are uncomfortable, too. I feel the lack of height with my head bent sideways, but for Juni it's a reason not to take the train. She had once made a rhym: "Nur gebückt - macht verrückt" means: 'always bowed down makes you crazy', the rhym only works in German. And to me, there is so much space spent with trep-trep up and trep-trep down that I may ask how many seats do you really gain? In Russia they have a higher profile, but still I am for the one floor cars, I'm a bit old-fashioned.

0S5A0R0A3

(hmm - no, that doesn't look so good. I think I have to put up my own 'number plate' picture - but it's become complicated)

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, March 7, 2021 10:10 AM

I honestly find the DB (Deutsche Bahn) Regionalbahn or Regional Express train double deckers acceprable. The seat are not great,  but compared to our gallery cars' interiors here,  they are brighter and quieter, not like being on a cell block. I'm 188 CM but I don't find myself stooping on the DB trains. 

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Posted by narig01 on Sunday, March 7, 2021 9:49 PM

a

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Posted by narig01 on Sunday, March 7, 2021 9:52 PM

daveklepper

And did not one of the luxury tour operators, possibly Rocky Mountain, have commuter galery cars rebuilt for sight-seing and meal sevice?

 

Ate you thinking of Transcisco Tours? They had several ex SP gallery commute cars. They were converted to excursion service. Transcisco ran an excursion from San Jose to Sparks. It was ran as the Reno Fun trains. The train was pulled by a couple of F45's. 

https://railpictures.net/showphotos.php

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Posted by narig01 on Sunday, March 7, 2021 9:53 PM

daveklepper

And did not one of the luxury tour operators, possibly Rocky Mountain, have commuter galery cars rebuilt for sight-seing and meal sevice?

 

PS I couldn't find any pics of the ex SP cars.

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Posted by Sara T on Monday, March 8, 2021 5:40 AM

charlie hebdo wrote >> I'm 188 CM but I don't find myself stooping on the DB trains. <<

 

That explains it. I am 1,96 (77"), Juni is a little over 2m. Ok, we are 'oversize' but still we also want to travel like passengers, not like parcels and if that's not possible in a railway car 4m high, then I don't know.

0S5A0R0A3

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