OK Mr. Zug, you're certainly entitled to your opinion and I won't argue with you over it. I'll assume they did something to tick you off in the past. We'll have to agree to disagree without being disagreeable.
Plain fact of the matter is NJT brass fouled up big-time over this, there's no disputing that at all. They rolled the dice and lost.
I like "Railpace", I haven't seen anything in there that I consider ridiculous or far-fetched, the articles are well-written and the photo spreads are excellent. And I suppose like most publications they've got their "inside sources" that they won't divulge for obvious reasons. My own contacts up north have confirmed everything I've passed on earlier.
We had quite a discussion on this subject starting in October 2012. Go to page eight on this "Transit" heading and look for "Commuter Rail Preps For Sandy." All who haven't seen it will find it interesting. Over 500 comments!
Firelock76Certainly! First, let me say the information comes from a column in "Railpace" magazine, published several months after the incident.
Yeah, that's a source I wouldn't trust with a hopper load of salt.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Certainly! First, let me say the information comes from a column in "Railpace" magazine, published several months after the incident.
NJT officials had ignored the warnings, or just couldn't make a decision (my own opinion), or just didn't want to pay any overtime to have the trains moved from the danger zones, specifically the Hoboken terminal yards and the Meadowlands Maintanance Facility yards as Hurricane Sandy approched the coast. Mind you other area transit agencys such as New Yorks Metro-North, the Long Island Railroad, and the subway system VERY much paid attention to the warnings and moved their equipment, in Metro-North's case up the Hudson River to Harmon NY.
When the NJT yards began to flood NJT officials went into panic mode, not just trying to order crews in, both on-duty and off, but were also refusing to pay the off-duty crews, expecting them to work free, in addition to risking their cars and possibly their lives to get to the flood zones. As I understand it there were people trapped in the Meadowlands facility, however they could take refuge in the upper stories of some of the buildings. So it's no wonder the crews refused.
NJT crews are savvy enough to know that even if you can be ordered to work, you can't be ordered to put the safety of your person or personal property at risk, or to work without being paid, any more than your employer can order you to do something illegal. So we can't blame this one on the union.
That's the story as I heard it. Bureaucratic incompetance at it's worst.
Interestingly, the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail system, operated by NJT but semi-autonomous, didn't lose any equipment. They moved it before the storm, and were ready to resume operations before the rest of NJT.
I find it interesting that the NJT top brass weren't "purged" until after the Super Bowl transit mess made NJT a nation-wide embarassment, but that's another story.
Firelock, perhaps I didn't pay enough attention to the events when they occured. I am unaware of any request, reasonable or unreasonable, that NJT made of its workforce before the event that was rejected. Could you explain it to me?
blue streak 1 BaltACD signal equipment is another animal entirely with many electronic assets that don't take kindly to water (salt or fresh). Qualified signal people are much more scarce than T&E crews. Balt: actually many signal bungalows are being raised. See link below. These raised signal boxes are not as high as those on the old C&O line Huntington - Cincinnatti. Understand NJT is rebuilding or adding new switchs that are water resistant. http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2015/10/whats_the_status_of_projects_to_protect_nj_transit_from_storms.html#incart_river
BaltACD signal equipment is another animal entirely with many electronic assets that don't take kindly to water (salt or fresh). Qualified signal people are much more scarce than T&E crews.
signal equipment is another animal entirely with many electronic assets that don't take kindly to water (salt or fresh). Qualified signal people are much more scarce than T&E crews.
Balt: actually many signal bungalows are being raised. See link below. These raised signal boxes are not as high as those on the old C&O line Huntington - Cincinnatti. Understand NJT is rebuilding or adding new switchs that are water resistant.
http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2015/10/whats_the_status_of_projects_to_protect_nj_transit_from_storms.html#incart_river
Raising the height of signal bunglows is not a 'get ready for the storm that hits tomorrow' action - that is a capital project for long term storm protection.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
DakGuy, the only time rigid union structure kicked in during NJT's Hurricane Sandy fiasco was when the NJT brass hit the panic button as the flooding became apparant and demanded crews move the trains out of the rapidly flooding areas, "Or else!" With union backing NJT crews had two words for NJT management, and they weren't "Yes sir!", if you know what I mean.
I can understand the inability to get signal equipment out of harms way in a hurry, but rolling stock is another matter entirely. After all, most of it moves at least twice a day in the normal course of operations.
Why do I suspect a large part of the answer is a rigid bureaucracy on the management side opposed by an equally rigid union structure?
More than likely it'd take Jersey Transit officials 96 hours to come to a decision.
Higher ground? That's easy. Move the trains west and north, Jersey topography rises when you go in those directions, and park 'em on the main lines if you have to. That's what the Long Island Railroad and the New York subway did, and they didn't lose any rolling stock.
I don't know where 'higher ground' is for all the equipment - enough crews 'might not' be qualified to get the equipment from it's normal location to 'higher ground'. Secondly, rolling equipment is one thing - signal equipment is another animal entirely with many electronic assets that don't take kindly to water (salt or fresh). Qualified signal people are much more scarce than T&E crews.
I would guess that almost every train makes at least one round trip per day, so it would seem like they would have enough crews to move all the trains to secure yards with in one day.
This is unbelievable that NJT says to move rail equipment would take 96 hours. Can some of our rails comment ?
http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/2015/10/moving_nj_transit_trains_to_higher_ground_would_take_4_days.html#incart_river
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