A gent I worked with back in the '80s told me of being assigned to a snow removal detail when he was at the Great Lakes Naval Training Center during World War Two. He didn't remember the name of the railroad but DID remember getting a cab ride in a steam locomotive out of it! And how! "Man, it was nice and warm in there!" he said.
So there's nothing new about bringing in outside help.
And welcome aboard mon coronel!
COL DON WOODWORTH I'd suspect that there is no shortage of unemployed people or able-bodied folks on welfare in the Boston area that could be put to work given the opportunity
And there's no shortage of lawyers who would represent these people when they "got hurt" while shoveling snow.
Liability is the name of the game.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
BaltACDManagements of yesteryear prided themselves on providing on time service, bottom line be damned. Today's managements pride themselves on the bottom line, on time service be damned.
+1000
COL DON WOODWORTH True, but what the need is a core of employees that truly know what they're doing (likely available) and an auxiliary work force to supplement same. If I'm not mistaken, the railroads used to hire ordinary "civilians" to help with the manual labor of shoveling out during/after big storms. I'd suspect that there is no shortage of unemployed people or able-bodied folks on welfare in the Boston area that could be put to work given the opportunity. It would be good for the railroads to return to the mode of "We're an all weather mode of transportation" instead of folding up at the fall of the first snowflake. They ought to hire some retired mangers from the B&M and NY,NH & H as consultants and figure out how to operate in bad weather instead of whimper.
True, but what the need is a core of employees that truly know what they're doing (likely available) and an auxiliary work force to supplement same. If I'm not mistaken, the railroads used to hire ordinary "civilians" to help with the manual labor of shoveling out during/after big storms. I'd suspect that there is no shortage of unemployed people or able-bodied folks on welfare in the Boston area that could be put to work given the opportunity. It would be good for the railroads to return to the mode of "We're an all weather mode of transportation" instead of folding up at the fall of the first snowflake. They ought to hire some retired mangers from the B&M and NY,NH & H as consultants and figure out how to operate in bad weather instead of whimper.
The T did that too. They hired a bunch of Union laborers to shovel and even were using National Guard troops at one point. They may have waited too long to ask for the extra help..
I do find it interesting that both the Public Employee staffed part of the system (light Rail, bus) and private company operated (heavy rail commuter lines,run by French operator Keolis)lines managed to get absolutely over their heads in dealing with the weather.
The Agency absolutely needs to hire better management but the State can't both cut funding/subsidies and expect that things will run smoother in an emergency..
The Pols (and taxpayers) will have to choose..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Kyle Does the light rail equipment have small snowplows like the locomotives of freight railroads do? I don't see why they don't run more trains to clear the snow. It is a lot easier to clear a few inches of snow every 30 minutes. By not running trains they're just letting more snow pile up (several feet) which will be harder to remove later. Correct me if I am wrong, but the best policy would logically be to run trains more frequently, and then running a plow with wings to push the snow further away from the rails once a day.
Does the light rail equipment have small snowplows like the locomotives of freight railroads do? I don't see why they don't run more trains to clear the snow. It is a lot easier to clear a few inches of snow every 30 minutes. By not running trains they're just letting more snow pile up (several feet) which will be harder to remove later.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the best policy would logically be to run trains more frequently, and then running a plow with wings to push the snow further away from the rails once a day.
They do (have small push plows,at least for the Green line LRV (overhead wire-catenary equipment) ) and they did (run trains all night to try to keep tracks clear) but we (I live about 50 miles south of Boston) had several storms this Winter that featured not only large snowfall during a short period of time but high wind either during or immediately following the storm that caused snow banks to form,often in the worst possible places..
Managements of yesteryear prided themselves on providing on time service, bottom line be damned.
Today's managements pride themselves on the bottom line, on time service be damned.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I remember seeing snowblowers in action on the Blue Line in the early 80's. Word is they wouldn't fit on the newer "Can Cars".
Sounds like a good reason to keep a couple of the old classics around!
One problem is the loss of institutional knowledge. There have been winter seasons where Boston got significant snow. Of course not like this winter.
A problem is that emergency plans over time can be altered till they no longer meet reality. When writing emergency plan tried to take as much as possibile from older plans. Had to bring in retired persons to tell young wippersnapers they had it wrong.
Boston has gone thru how many operators ? New Haven PC, Conrail (?), Amtrak, B&M, 2Private operators just of the commuter rail division. The propesity to say "WE didn't invent this procedure " happens way too much. An example would be the New York governor thinking that MNRR didn't know what they were doing this winter. Maybe MTA looked too good during Sandy compared to other agencys.?
Good practice in theory. Reality says that somewhere along the line there will be some kind of failure. Equipment will become stuck and block the line. With the continued snow fall personnel needed to resolve the issue will be unable to get to the equipment over surface roads and now you have the line blocked and no effective way to get the equipment moving again.
There are snow storms and there are snow storms. When the depth of the snow gets to double digits in inches or is more easily measured in feet - all bets are off on any system being able to operate in anything approaching 'normal'. Even in the 'old days' when snow was measured in feet in urban areas all forms of transportation ground to a halt.
I recall the Chicago Blizzard of 1967 - my carrier moved all System MofW gangs to Chicago to assist the local manpower and it still took over two weeks for operations to return to any sembalence of normal.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/chi-chicagodays-1967blizzard-story-story.html
Boston has had repeated storms about weekly that each have measured snow in feet.
The MBTA Red Line does roster a couple of jet blowers (one of which is an attachment that mounts on a "speedswing" type crane/tool carrier) but as we saw, it just was not enough..
The agency is lucky that snowfall has not been as severe this year in the NYC area so that additional equipment could be rented from the MTA..
Taxpayer funding for the MBTA is a huge political football in Ma. these days and predictibly; there are many Officials who like to think that they can have things both ways (smaller budget with better response to major weather emergencies)...
Boston Globe reports today that most commuter stations are open with limited service, and all Red, Orange, Bluse, and Green line stations and stops are open, with reduced but regular service. This includes the Red Line Quincy and Braintree branch and Green B line (Commonwealth Avenue) that were out the longest.
Not necessarily. Certainly some people would in inconvenienced, others if not most would use it as a welcome excuse for a day off.
"I can't get to work Boss, the trains ain't runnin'!"
"Yeah, me neither!"
Firelock76 This had been discussed before in various threads. In a nutshell the railroads just do not have the manpower to cover all contingencies that they had years ago. It's a lot easier to shut the lines down until after the weather crisis has passed than to risk stranded trains. Pure and simple. The days of "...the 'Century' MUST go through!" are over. Done.
This had been discussed before in various threads. In a nutshell the railroads just do not have the manpower to cover all contingencies that they had years ago. It's a lot easier to shut the lines down until after the weather crisis has passed than to risk stranded trains. Pure and simple.
The days of "...the 'Century' MUST go through!" are over. Done.
BroadwayLion Serious snow removal courtsey of New York City Transit. That is a jet engine from a Boeing 747 (the little one in the tail that provides hotel power.) ROAR
Serious snow removal courtsey of New York City Transit. That is a jet engine from a Boeing 747 (the little one in the tail that provides hotel power.)
ROAR
this beast was in Boston last week on loan from NYCTA, saw it working on the Red Line and lots of TV coverage. METRA is moving away from using theirs as the heat melts the snow and the water re freezes causing other problems. They are acquiring "cold air" blowers.
The old equipment is on a siding north of nowhere, burried under 7' of snow.
(Watch out for flying ballast... may damage equipment on adjacent tracks)
After this NYCT bought some snow blosers. Ran them down the Brighton Line during the last snow event. Broke out windows in adjoining houses, people awoke to broken windows and piles of snow in their bedrooms. Ops, Pitty!
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Manpower. Four men section crews for every ten miles of traci compared to four men with mehainzed track inspection, ballast tamping, etc. for a whole division.
Worry about law suites if passengers are stranded.
Loss of skills with retirements of "old heads."
'
Even the poor Boston and Maine was able to run through the worst of Bostons winters. What happened? Is this really a issue of getting the crews to the trains which go by there own car to the job site? Are we to go back to bunk rooms for RR crews again?
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