Yes this is good for NJT...the tunnels being reopened. It will give NJT the chance to experiment and see what can be done over the weekend in preperation for the new workweek. Port Jervis and Suffern trains can again be stopping at Secaucus and maybe even expand to more trains during rush hours and expand through the day....Woodbridge trains can be reintroduced and even more might be able to run up from New Brunswick and Trenton.
NJT has nothing new on their website tonight but have added a "recovery map" much like MNRR, LIRR, and MTA have been using. Curiously service is shown from Suffern but not from Port Jervis.
LIRR reportedly is reopening Speonk to Montauk with generators at grade crossings where power has not been restored. MNRR and LIRR suffering from slippery rail and delays this evening from the new storm.
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Ironically, it was NJT that torpedoed changing the voltage/frequency north of Trenton back in the early 1980s. The last of the GG1s were still rolling under NJT ownership.
Henry , you are right and I apologize. The D and B swapped routes in Brooklyn some time ago, and I forgot. Interestingly, my last Brooklyn subway ride was on the old B on the West End line.
They've done a lot of that recently...some to accommodate construction and maintenance, some to accommodate customers. Look at the M train...used to be from Metropolitan Ave to downtown Manhatten, then out to Brooklyn, now, up to Forest Hills instead! The G train has been extended and then shortened on both ends. I am surprised there are no run through services at Stillwell Ave.! Or maybe that's coming.
I don't what it is doing currently, but before Sandy the G, cut back in Queens to Court Square, was extended in Brooklyn to Church Avenue.
The only "run through" services that ever existed at Stillwell Avenue were the Culver gate-car trains run during rush hours out to Nortons Point over what became a private right of way streetcar line, and this ended probably about 1920 or earlier, and later from about 1920 to 1958 the Chambers Street - Manhattan Bridge, Sea Beach express tracks - Coney Island - Brighton express tracks - Franklin Avenue summer sunny Sunday service, signed Express with a white disc on the right pantograph gate on each end to identify the special service. On Saturdays and cloudy Sundays it ran Coney Island - Franklin only.
G is running that route you describe right now. But it was going I think to Forest Park at one time and only 4th Ave in Brooklyn. Then it went further that Church Ave only in rush hour...they keep changing and experimenting I guess.
Nothing new or different to report tonight in reference to NYC and vicinity...they all survived the roughing from yesterday's snow and wind. All warn of problems of slippery rails and other problem spots which may cause slower speeds and delays. SEPTA seems to be 99.9% ok as is MNRR with "normal" schedules on all lines except buses on the New Canaan line. LIRR still not operating east of Riverhead nor on the Long Beach line and elsewhere modified schedules (fewer, slower trains) but all lines in service. NJT still the same schedules posted for weekdays and the weekend but still the most tight lipped of the four services mentioned above. Amtrak expects to be back into NYP with Empire State services beginning tomorrow morning, too. MTA plans to open the L line from 8Th Ave Manhatten to Rockaway Park tomorrow morning (up to now the L train has operated from the J & M train connection at Broadway to Rockaway Park). South Ferry isn't even being talked about and the R train still not running Canal St. to Brooklyn. F, B, & D trains running to Stillwell Ave, Coney Island but there is no N train service there. No A trains Rockaway Blvd to Rockaway (thus no S either).
To provide needed capacity, as long as the Montague Street Tunnel is not available, they should rerout the R over the Manhattan Bridge, since the N and Q together still leave time for another service. Maybe someone in NY can suggest that. (Before Christie Street, the north tracks, now used by B, D, and M, three services, saw Brighton Express, West End Express, and Sea Beach Express, also three services. The south tracks should also be able to handle three services.)
I think their thinking is that all areas are covered by the service being provided in lower Manhattan so the R train is not really needed there....Manhattan Bridge and the two tunnels for F and 2&3 trains is carrying the load. Another factor to be considered is that there are fewer people that have to travel...some without homes and others without places to work are not traveling.
Back to NJT...this morning they've posted free bus services every 10 minutes 6A-9A inbound and 4P to 7P outbound connecting Morristown, Convent, Madison, Chatham, Bay St. Montclair, Metropark, and Aberdeen to ferry services at Weehawken, or Hoboken, or Liberty State Park. depending on origination. Complete details at www.njtransit.com . This was announced late last night was in this morning's papers and on the website not billboarded but rather quietly posted. There are still over 250 thousand without power in NJ alone...so I am sure there are many not going to work or using transit anyway.
I can't figure out how to link or copy an article in today's NY Times about how the NY City subway lines have returned as if by Magic...if you can find it, it says a lot about how well MTA along with its MNRR and LIRR agencies have done such a great job returning after Sandy...
Or if someone with the expertise can figure how to bring it here, please do it.
I get a paper copy of the New York Times on the weekends, Henry and I read the fascinating article this morning. Anyone can google on the Times' to find their website. You can read up to 10 articles a month free; after that you must subscribe.
I found the detail about buses interesting. Where subways are not running MTA has been substituting buses. However, Buses hold about 75 passengers each while one train holds 1500 to 2000 passengers. Also, buses have caused a lot of traffic congestion. For MTA buses are at best a limited option.
Where I live (in Essex County) you pointed out NJT is providing buses for people who usually ride the Morris and Essex and Montclair--Boonton Line but I'm sure they have the same congestion problems.
It is pretty amazing that as of now almost the whole subway system is restored.
And its not just almost the whole subway system, it is also all of MNRR east of the Hudson except the New Canaan branch in CT. and all of the LIRR except the Long Beach branch and east of Riverhead. I temper with reduced schedules in effect on the LIRR as only two of the four tunnels have been opened under the East River. Amtrak has said that they planned on those two tunnels and the north bore of the Hudson tunnel to be opened "by Friday". With those openings, the LIRR will be able to run more trains as will NJT and Amtrak. But none of the railroads have announced plans. NJT could, for instance, increase the number of trains on the Corridor and reinstitute service from Woodbridge; possibly too, they could allow the Port Jervis/Suffern trains to stop at Sec. Jct. as well as go all the way to Hoboken; additionally they may even be able to run more trains to and from Port Jervis or Suffern, even mid day.
Another factor to be considered, as I noted in an earlier comment on the Subway traffic, is that there probably are fewer people going to and from work in the city right now as some have no homes to come from or jobs to go to. If I read what is happening it will quite a while until the entire Metropolitan Area is up and running at full strength. Until then, probably not as much transit service is needed.
The MTA and Metronorth are real success stories in restoring transit . New Jersey Transit seems to be still struggling with problems.
The Morris and Essex and Montclair--Boonton line are still not operating and are reported to have severe damage to the tracks. More puzzling is the lightrail between Newark Penn Station and Broad Street Station which is still not running. It s puzzling because some service has been restored on the Grove Street Line which is much longer and which uses the same terminal at Newark Penn Station. Finally, in today's Star-Ledger there is a letter from a customer who reports that last night (Friday, November 9) while there was service out of New York Penn Station the trains were shifted to different tracks and there was no indication of this on the departure boards and no NJT customer service representatives to direct people so commuters in the evening were scrambling just to find their trains home.
No doubt we will hear more about what is going on as time goes on. Here is a link to the letter:
http://www.nj.com/forums/transit/index.ssf?extlink?artid=20781
I wonder if the Broad St. line of the Newark City Subway is not running because there are no connecting trains at Broad St. so very low priority in regaining service....NJT has not explained itself, as I keep on saying...so we don't know what is happening or why. Another forum reports 10 locomotives with at least two of the 4500 class dualies and one MNRR unit are at M&E RR shops at Morristown but not known if any came in under their own power or if one did the dragging or if an M&E unit did the dragging; nor do we know where they were parked. Amtrak kept saying they would have the north bore under the Hudson and the two still flooded tunnels under the East River opened by Friday but have not seen or heard if it actually happened. If so, or if when, then more NJT trains can get into NYP meaning more can be run from Trenton and maybe Woodbridge can be restored,and the PJ/Suffern trains can stop at both Sec. Jct. and Hoboken and more trains can be added to that service.
MNRR seems to be in the best shape and supposedly running regular schedules; LIRR is up and running except Long Beach branch and east of RIverhead and with fewer but longer trains and different schedules...opening the other two E. River tunnels would help them with more service. Subway system is amazingly up and running even to Coney Island on the D, F, and B lines but not the N line. R train from Manhattan still not running nor the 1 train south of PATH.
Again, in all cases, fewer people are traveling because they can't get out of homes with no power or to work where there is no power...It's gonna be a while before we can redefine "normal".
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"I wonder if the Broad St. line of the Newark City Subway is not running because there is no connecting trains at Broad St. so very low priority in regaining service....NJT has not explained itself, as I keep on saying....so we don't know what is happening or why."
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You certainly hit the nail on the head, Henry. With NJT all we know is what service has been restored. With unrestoried service there is no way to know when it will come back.
I hate to be a critic. After all, this is the worst natural disaster in recorded history for New Jersey. However, when I read that NJT cannot even provide departure information at NYP I wonder if NJT is so overwhelmed that panic has set in. For departures all they need is a person with chalk, a blackboard and a cell phone to connect with the dispatcher. I'm sure you remember when that is the way the Pennsylvania operated even in New York Penn Station.
I sure hope you are right about lack of service on the Broad Street Lightrail because there is not yet service to Broad Street Station. But I wonder if the explanation is as simple as that.
Of the 7 subway tunnels under the East river, how many are operating?
As far as I can see, Mike, all East River tunnels are operating.
Here is a link to the restored service subway map:
http://alert.mta.info/sites/default/files/pdf/hurricane_recovery_map_bw_Nov10_N.pdf
The R train tunnels are not yet running. Amtrak was supposed to open the two still closed bores Friday as well as the north bore under the Hudson. No announcement from Amtrak, LIRR or NJT about this as yet. However, while MNRR continues to run at full throttle except for New Canaan branch buses, LIRR continues bus service for the Long Beach branch. Service reported restored Riverhead to Greenport and modified schedule continues Speonk to Montauk as there is still consumer power outages out there. NJT has a note that Bergen and Pascack Valley service will resume Monday but as of this hour have not yet posted schedules; also High Bridge trains are to resume Monday but no schedule posted as yet. Supposedly with the second hole opened under the Hudson and the two under the East River, there should be the capability to handle full compliment of train on Amtrak, LIRR, and NJT which should bring big improvements in services on all three. Perhaps we'll learn more late Sunday. Subways are pretty well operating except for the 1 train south of Chambers St, the R train from Canal St. to Brooklyn and the A train from Howard Beach Blvd to Far Rockaway and Rockaway Beach (express bus to Far Rockaway now from Howard Beach Blvd around JFK airport). N train joins the B, D, and F trains at Stillwell Ave., Coney Island...now if the Steeplechase would only open up we'd be in heaven!
Sunday, Nov. 11. New Jersey Transit Schedules are now available for Main/Bergen County and the Pascack Valley Lines. Weekend trains will end at Seacaucus but weekday trains will end at Hoboken.
There is still no word about the Morris and Essex and Montclair--Boonton Lines or the Broad Street Light Rail.
NJT's Port Jervis and Main and Bergen lines have full day schedules with most trains returning in number but altered schedules including none stopping at Sec. Jct. Pascack Valley also back full schedule with no Sec Jct. stops. www.njtransit.com has all the details. High Bridge trains returning but not complete set; special Raritan Valley schedule in effect. No reports or predictions for the Morristown, Montclair Boonton nor NJCL lines.
PATH is now operating a regular NEWARKJ - Herald Sq. service, Harrison, Journal Sq. Grove St, Newport (used ot be Pavonia), 14th St. 23rd St., Herald Square, No service to WTC or Hoboken or 9th St. and Sherison Sq.
for pleople on crowded NEC NJT trains, getting off at Newark and geting a seat to Manhattan on PATH should be a treat.
Monday, November 12. NJT's Morris and Essex Line now up and running with limited (but reasonable) service between Dover and New York Penn Station. There is no stop in Seacaucus and no trains run to Hboken. There is still no service on the Gladstone Branch or the Montclair--Boonton Line.
NJT's announcement says the information was released Sunday evening. However, as of about 7 pm NJT was still showing the service was suspended. In any event it is now reported to be running.
Well it wasn't on the website when I last checked it at 9:45PM last night...but this is good news....for NJT. I still wish they were more forthcoming with information as to what happened, what has to happen, and what is happening.
It is good news, Henry, but not quite as good as I thought.
The Star-Ledger now reports delays of an hour or more due to fog and "slippery track conditions." There is no clarification of that. However, the Morris and Essex line runs through a lot of up scale beautiful tree shaded suburbs. These are among the first railroad suburbs in the country and over the years they have maintained themselves as attractive places to live. However, every year they face a problem. Leaves fall from the trees and lay on the tracks. Natural oils from the leaves coat the tracks as they are crushed by train wheels. The now oiled track is slippery so engines cannot gain adhesion.
Morris and Essex trains have been running for well over 150 year. It seems to me that in that amount of time a country that can afford space ships to Mars might spend the money necessary to learn how to deal with leaves in the fall. After all, these train are important to many thousands who need to get to work so they can pay their taxes for space research and a host of other things. However, the problem has never been solves and it happens every fall. It is always resolved in the same way. By ignoring it long enough the leaves all fall and it goes away until the next fall.
Here is a link: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/11/poor_track_conditions_lead_to.html#incart_river_default
Just read the Star Ledger and Morris Record stories as well as NJT's website. Info evidently went up after 10PM last night. A friend on the Yahoo NJT group says he was talking with a maintainer Sunday afternoon who didn't think the repair was made at Kearny to restart service. However, there is an hourly schedule from Dover posted in each Direction plus added trains to the Corridor from Trenton. I see PATH has also opened from Newark and Harrison to Journal Sq. and to 33rd St.
As for trees and leaves....yes the railroad has been there since the late 1830s with numerous changes in location of the right of way and its construction. And each time, all the trees and foliage is removed, cut back or otherwise changed. I don't remember any real problems the DL&W had from the 40's through the 60's but as time meandered through the 70's into the 80's and 90's, it did increase. There was little cutting of the trees and bushes along the right of way for two reasons: one, of course, it cost money to do so and two, it created a sound curtain between the railroad and the neighboring houses. Cutting and cleaning happened only if enough of the engineers complained about sighting along the way involving signals, hidden crossings, station platforms, etc. Slip sliding of wheels was the problem of the engineers and not management until the late 90's (and NJT was not alone, LIRR, MNRR, and SEPTA were also having the same experiences). Then management became concerned and adapted the practice of spraying the rails with a compound to reduce the slipperiness rather than remove the foliage cause. But also, the cars and equipment while bigger, also were lighter on each axle which also promulgated slippage. And not all the leaves are coming from trees on NJT property, the property owners along the ROW own the trees, too, and this causes all kinds of rights and legal questions. So, NJT can remove as much of the causes as they can but will still be left with the problem of the neighbors' trees. Is it too late to make changes in the neighborhood?
EDIT ADD: schedules on M&E are basic weekend schedules with train numbers picking up where leaving off in regular table with a little tweaking where needed and the addition of several Summit only trains. However, slippery rail from leaves and lack of service have been major headaches with one to two hour delays in the morning...not posted yet about the evening rush but there is a note that westbounds are not stopping at Short HIlls and passengers have to go to Summit and return on an E'bnd train! No weekend schedules have been announced either.
Newark City Subway Broad to Newark Penn is operating rush hour only, 30 minute headways. Will try later to pick up anything new NJT will post but I can't after 10PM when they seem to have made this morning's announcements...
You are right about the 10 pm posting from NJT, Henry. There has to be a reason for waiting so long to post the news.
As for the leaves, well to say we can't deal with leaves on the tracks because it is too expensive is, I think, not realistic. After all every suburban homeowner deals with leaves.
I agree that we can't cut down every bush and tree within a mile of the railroad track.
The post 10PM postings may be because the information is going through the Governor's office rather than straight from NJT...only my speculation.
Leaves are a problem because NJT (and other rr's and agencies) have made them a problem by not (spending the money) keeping the ROW clear of brush and trees. One excuse is because the tree and bush line dampens noise to keep the NIMBYs quiet. Also by going with lighter weight cars and push pull rather than EMU's they don't have the power in one unit to pull a whole train through. Those factors combine for 90% of the problems.
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LIRR announcement
http://www.mta.info/supplemental/lirr/WeekdaySchedules11-12-12.htm
There appears to be some indication that the reductions will continue for the rest of the year? evidently manual blocks will be in effect in tunnels 1 & 2 ?
LIRR schedule does not indicate it will be through the end of the year but until all repairs and equipment is up and running.which could last one week, one month, 6 months, or whatever. Manual blocking through the tunnels, the same thing: signals will be fixed as soon as they can.
Over in NJ this Tuesday morning, the same schedules in effect as were in effect yesterday. Delays seem to be fewer this morning.
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