The Railway Magazine article quotes a production total of 10 000 for China.
I think there is fairly reliable information about Chinese steam loco production around, if you can find it (and you may need to read Chinese or Japanese). I don't know if there is anything on (or from) http://www.railwaysofchina.com/ .
Jeremy
Thanks, Jeremy. The Kreigslok fascinates me, for some reason. What I have heard about it is that the locomotive was simplified to facilitate mass production. It makes me wonder if the survivors managed to hang on this long because they were simple to build, maintain, and operate, or if so many were built that there are bound to be survivors out there.
I also wonder if anyone has steam locomotive building figures for the Chinese? I'd be somewhat surprised if they did- seeing as the Chinese, like the Russians, consider that kind of production data a national security secret...
Erik
The article is in the May 2007 issue - it discusses how many steam locomotives were ever built (about 636 000 world wide), and in which counties (from 177000 in the USA, 155000 in Germany and 110000 in Great Britain down to 2 in Turkey), but doesn't say anything about the most popular wheel arrangement.
I recall reading somewhere that it was 2-8-0, but don't recall any details.
Regarding working German 2-10-0 kriegsloks, there are quite a few sacattered across various European countries - I believe in Bosnia, there even a few still in (or available in reserve for) industrial use.
On a slightly different criteria, I don't know whether it was the German kriegslok or the US Army S-160 2-8-0 that was most widespread, in terms of the number of counties it was used in.
Simon, thanks! I will see if I can keep the mother country functioning economically by ordering some back issues!
Erik.
I've narrowed it down to the May or June 2007 issue! I can keep trying but I'm pressed for time at present. If you want to go straight to the horses mouth it's www.railwaymagazine.com
Quite an interesting magazine but obviously with a UK bias.
Thanks, 4884. I was busy burning up the calculator on my cell phone while balancing a lap top and a fairly large book....
I wish they had a similar data base somewhere for steam engines as well... I have raided Borders for the UK magazine... unfortunately, they are pretty confused over there...
Gribble, I don't know where Hugh got his data, but his numbers are pretty close to the source I used, which is: The Encyclopedia of Trains & Locomotives, by C.J. Riley, published in 1994 by Michael Friedman Publishing Group in New York. Appendix 1 of the book has production numbers for North American diesel locomotives. According to the book, EMD produced 2188 units for the US (1801), Canada (254), and Mexico (133). That would make your model number 6 on the hit parade. Now that you have me competely confused, I'll go back and check my own addition...
zardoz wrote: WCfan wrote: wctransfer wrote: I heard the SDL39s also ran quite well, but the WC SD45s with EM 2000 (7495,7496,6497?,7498,and the 7499) trumped them. Not only more horse obviously, but these were the best running SD45s known to man, could pull you out of anything at low end, and could pull through the roof at the top end.AlecAnd those units where most popular by crews. Right?For quanity, the GP38-2, and the SD40-2. Everywhere I went, the SD40-2 was the most popular locomotive for the crews. The F units were a real pain in freight service (poor visibility for the engineer during switching and/or backup moves; tall ladder for the trainmen to climb up and down).The SD40-2 was (at least when they were less than 20 years old) a warm, smooth-riding, powerful, dependable, and fast locomotive.
WCfan wrote: wctransfer wrote: I heard the SDL39s also ran quite well, but the WC SD45s with EM 2000 (7495,7496,6497?,7498,and the 7499) trumped them. Not only more horse obviously, but these were the best running SD45s known to man, could pull you out of anything at low end, and could pull through the roof at the top end.AlecAnd those units where most popular by crews. Right?For quanity, the GP38-2, and the SD40-2.
wctransfer wrote: I heard the SDL39s also ran quite well, but the WC SD45s with EM 2000 (7495,7496,6497?,7498,and the 7499) trumped them. Not only more horse obviously, but these were the best running SD45s known to man, could pull you out of anything at low end, and could pull through the roof at the top end.Alec
I heard the SDL39s also ran quite well, but the WC SD45s with EM 2000 (7495,7496,6497?,7498,and the 7499) trumped them. Not only more horse obviously, but these were the best running SD45s known to man, could pull you out of anything at low end, and could pull through the roof at the top end.
Alec
And those units where most popular by crews. Right?
For quanity, the GP38-2, and the SD40-2.
Everywhere I went, the SD40-2 was the most popular locomotive for the crews. The F units were a real pain in freight service (poor visibility for the engineer during switching and/or backup moves; tall ladder for the trainmen to climb up and down).
The SD40-2 was (at least when they were less than 20 years old) a warm, smooth-riding, powerful, dependable, and fast locomotive.
Except WC. They had some of the best SD45's out there. Like WC transfer said, they where the best 45s knowen to man! So I would supose they where smooth runners. I started a thread in the locomotives section on the SD45. Here's the link: http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1109676/ShowPost.aspx
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JR7582 My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wcfan/
Hugh Jampton wrote:As far as the North American market goes, the top 10 looks like this:
As far as the North American market goes, the top 10 looks like this:
The Genesis point got me to thinking- how do you measure popularity? What I was trying to do was figure out why railroads bought locomotives the way they did. The only measure I could come up with in terms of popularity was number of units sold. I am not sure that a government contract- like AMTRAK did for the Genesis- is a really fair example of popularity with buisness executives who want bang for the buck and a product that will meet their needs best.
I guess we could rule out the Soviet examples, and the German steamer as well- both examples of government control where you took it or left it.
Suggestions?
Amtrak_Titan wrote:I think the most popular passenger unit built in the United States is the Genesis locomotive.
Not quite. Off the top of my head, I know that there were over 400 E7A/B's and over 400 E8A/B's built in the United States.
data from various sources.
It's a monthly UK publication called Railway Magazine. Their website is'nt of much use but the article was in one of the issues this year. I very much regret passing the copy on because it really was quite a fascinating piece.
Some of my compatriots post in the "General" forum and I'll put a message on there aking for help.
I have bought Railway Magazine in the US. Some of the bigger branches of Borders carry it.
Simon, what was the magazine and issue you speak of? Maybe I can get a back issue...
PS. According to my "Encyclopedia of Trains and Locomotives", EMD is the winner of the most diesels produced from the 40's through the mid 90's. I am sure that GE has taken over the lead now, but neither of them put together comes close to the Soviet diesel you mentioned earlier.
Sorry, folks, but I still have'nt found that article.
As for most prolific builders...that's a good question.
In most European countries the railway companies designed and built their own locomotives but for South America, Africa and Asia locomotives tended to be bought in, depending on which colonial power held the most influence and which political alignment was most favourable.
I could be well off the mark here but I'd imagine that companies like Henschel, Orenstein & Koppel, Hunslet and North British would score more highly on this than Lima, Baldwin or Alco.
That's steam, of course. I should imagine that the various incarnations of EMD would take the crown for diesel.
SD40-2 for the quantity and the F7 for popularity.
i like the SD40-2 better though...
erikthered wrote: I have heard rumors that the German "Kreigslok", which I believe is the model 2-10-0 you mentioned, has a functional unit somewhere in Germany, probably in a museum as well.
I have heard rumors that the German "Kreigslok", which I believe is the model 2-10-0 you mentioned, has a functional unit somewhere in Germany, probably in a museum as well.
There is an active 2-10-0 Kriegslok of the 52 series, unreconstructed too, with the Dutch museum railroad VSM (link: http://www.stoomtrein.org/index.html, no english text but click materieel, stoomlocomotieven is steamtrains).
Link to picture of said locomotive: http://www.stoomtrein.org/materieel/images/523804.jpg
VSM also has a number of reconstructed 52's (Reko-52) from the former East Germany.
52's are simplified 50 series.
greetings,
Marc Immeker
To get on with the thread however, the Russian Class E 0-10-0 (including later subclasses) with about 10 000 units is generally agreed as the most numerous single class of steam locomotive, followed by the German wartime class 52 2-10-0 with around 7000 units built.
Soviet diesels, too are likely to be the most common single classes:
Class TE3 had 6803 (twin units) = 13606 locomotives
Class 2TE10L had 3533 (twin units) = 7066 locomotives
I think you are absolutely correct with the numbers. I looked up diesel production in North America, using a source that was printed in 1994. The closest competitor produced in the USA or Canada on the diesel side was the EMD GP-9, with 3436 units built between January, 1954, and December, 1959. Second place in the diesel division for North America also goes to EMD, with 3131 units of the SD40-2 produced from January, 1972 to February, 1986.
I wonder if the Russians have a railroad museum, and if so, if one of their TE3's is there.
Maybe TRAINS should send someone over to Russia to see what their railroading is like. (I volunteer, Jim- I'll even get my passport updated.)
PS. Manifold apologies for the use of the word "popular" in the title. I was looking for the largest sales of locomotive types made to worldwide railroads. This kind of decision isn't made by locomotive engineers, who have a different set of criteria for what is popular with them.
M636 - you are correct - as usual!
I meant USATC and whilst I can't dispute their longevity all accounts I've ever read suggest that they were immensely unpopular.
Just today I read an article about the Porter And Vulcan built 0-6-0's for WW2 service. Their drain cocks were so inadequate that within months many of them had hydraulicked.
Regrettably I've already passed the magazine I referred to earlier to my local preservation group (they'll sell it on to raise funds) but I'll try and find a copy on line.
On the Wisconsin Central (back in the good ol' days) I heard that the most popular locomotive was the SDL39. It was light weight and had a lot of power under it's hood. I had a lot of engineers say they were some of the best they ever ran.
James
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
Simon Reed wrote: Popular does'nt equate to quantity built.Huge numbers of USRA 2-8-0's and 2-10-0's were built during WW2. They were appalling to drive, fire and maintain but were a necessity at the time.
Popular does'nt equate to quantity built.
Huge numbers of USRA 2-8-0's and 2-10-0's were built during WW2. They were appalling to drive, fire and maintain but were a necessity at the time.
USRA locomotives were built in 1918-1919 and there were no 2-8-0s or 2-10-0s.
The locomotive you are referring to were US Army (Transportation Corps) locomotives, but even then there were no 2-10-0s built for the US Army. There were standard gauge 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s and metre gauge 2-8-2s. The Russian 2-10-0s were given USATC numbers but were not military locomotives.
I think you are a bit hard on the USATC locomotives. The 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s had long lives post war and new 2-8-2 were built for India and Pakistan, Portugal and Australia. A number of early post war British locomotives introduced features first seen in the UK on the 2-8-0s.
There were several other 2TE10 developments, 1557 2TE10V = 3114 locomotives, 3000 2TE10M = 6000 locomotives.
All of these used Fairbanks Morse design opposed piston engines with 207mm bore, which might give that engine a chance of beating the EMD 567 type in numbers.
M636C
erikthered wrote: Looking forward to hearing the results, Simon. Did the article give a break out of which manufacturers produced the most locomotives?Also, any feedback on diesels?Thanks,Erik
Looking forward to hearing the results, Simon. Did the article give a break out of which manufacturers produced the most locomotives?
Also, any feedback on diesels?
Thanks,
I would say that EMD has produced the most diesels in North America.
If popular is by quantity produced then the SD40-2, C44-9W, GP7, GP9, and GP38-2 would have to be mentioned. The last new GP38-2 was built in Jan 1985 but RRs are rebuilding GP40/40-2/50s into them.
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