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The most popular locomotives ever built?

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The most popular locomotives ever built?
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, June 14, 2007 8:04 PM

We all have our favorite locomotives, but my question is a bit more practical for those who know.  What steam locomotive was built more than any other- and by whom?  The answer would tell me what the favorite locomotive was for the railroads- not the railfan.

I'd like to know the same thing for diesel locomotives as well.

Just to add spice to the mix, let's not limit the question to just the USA or even North America, but open it up to the entire world.

 

Erik

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Posted by jimrice4449 on Friday, June 15, 2007 12:32 AM
The most popular steam locomotive design was the USRA 0-8-0 switcher (and copies).   It was also the last steam locomotive built for US common carrier service (for N&W).   I believe the most popular diesel was the F-7
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, June 15, 2007 9:12 AM
Since he includes the entire world, and being the Alco fan that I am, I would think that the top diesel would be either the DL560/WDM2 or DL535/YDM4.  Both enjoyed huge production in India under license from Alco.  Keep in mind that this could be trumped by some diesel model from the former Soviet bloc.
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Posted by Randy Stahl on Friday, June 15, 2007 9:35 AM

 CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:
Since he includes the entire world, and being the Alco fan that I am, I would think that the top diesel would be either the DL560/WDM2 or DL535/YDM4.  Both enjoyed huge production in India under license from Alco.  Keep in mind that this could be trumped by some diesel model from the former Soviet bloc.

Indeed , the M-62 was a very popular locomotive , I think there were at least a dozen or more countrys with a large number of them. A group of them are getting a new lease on life in Poland.

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Posted by Limitedclear on Friday, June 15, 2007 10:17 AM

I'd be quite surprised if the GP7/GP9 weren't high on the list of most popular, at least here in the U.S.

LC

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 15, 2007 11:12 AM

The answers make one wonder why these locomotives were so popular with railroad execs. 

The 0-8-0 switcher does not surprise me.  I wonder how many of them are preserved as compared to their larger brethren?  There is nothing particularly glamorous about the humble switcher.  They didn't set speed records or do any majestic combat hauling long freights over hills.

I also wonder about the Soviet and Indian locomotives. Does anyone think that they became so popular because there was only one manufacturer doing the building?  

And where does the American 4-4-0 fall into the numbers game?  Seems that was the locomotive of choice for us over here...

Erik 

 

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Posted by stocksj on Friday, June 15, 2007 11:24 AM
F7's Rules, too bad they're gone. Makes me wish I had one.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, June 15, 2007 12:12 PM
As far as the DL560/WDM2 and DL535/YDM4 are concerned, they are Alco designs and the DL535 can be found elsewhere, including WP&Y.  The Indian manufacturer (Diesel Locomotive Works) was able to obtain a license from Alco for these designs, after the earliest locomotives were imported from the United States and Canada in the 1960's.  EMD also made some sales to Indian Railways, but was unwilling until recently to grant a manufacturing license to DLW.
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Posted by JonathanS on Friday, June 15, 2007 1:31 PM

 jimrice4449 wrote:
The most popular steam locomotive design was the USRA 0-8-0 switcher (and copies).   It was also the last steam locomotive built for US common carrier service (for N&W).   I believe the most popular diesel was the F-7

I would think that the Russian Decapod at over 1000 built would outnumber the USRA 0-8-0.

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Posted by Simon Reed on Friday, June 15, 2007 1:50 PM

Popular does'nt equate to quantity built.

Huge numbers of USRA 2-8-0's and 2-10-0's were built during WW2. They were appalling to drive, fire and maintain but were a necessity at the time.

 

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Friday, June 15, 2007 2:33 PM

Are we talking about the most built of a wheel arrangement, if so I think it's the 2-8-0 followed by the 4-4-0.

Enjoy

Paul 

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Posted by Simon Reed on Friday, June 15, 2007 3:03 PM

The UK "Railway Magazine" recently carried an article about this.

Globally the most predominant wheel arrangement was 0-6-0, followed by 2-8-0. I can't remember what came next but I don't think it was 4-4-0.

I'm at work and can't immediately find the answer but I'll attempt to dig it out when I get home.

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, June 16, 2007 8:38 AM

Looking forward to hearing the results, Simon.  Did the article give a break out of which manufacturers produced the most locomotives?

Also, any feedback on diesels?

Thanks,

Erik

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:37 PM
 erikthered wrote:

Looking forward to hearing the results, Simon.  Did the article give a break out of which manufacturers produced the most locomotives?

Also, any feedback on diesels?

Thanks,

Erik

I would say that EMD has produced the most diesels in North America.

If popular is by quantity produced then the SD40-2, C44-9W, GP7, GP9, and GP38-2 would have to be mentioned. The last new GP38-2 was built in Jan 1985 but RRs are rebuilding GP40/40-2/50s into them.

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Posted by M636C on Sunday, June 17, 2007 10:39 AM
 Simon Reed wrote:

Popular does'nt equate to quantity built.

Huge numbers of USRA 2-8-0's and 2-10-0's were built during WW2. They were appalling to drive, fire and maintain but were a necessity at the time.

 

USRA locomotives were built in 1918-1919 and there were no 2-8-0s or 2-10-0s.

The locomotive you are referring to were US Army (Transportation Corps) locomotives, but even then there were no 2-10-0s built for the US Army. There were standard gauge 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s and metre gauge 2-8-2s. The Russian 2-10-0s were given USATC numbers but were not military locomotives.

I think you are a bit hard on the USATC locomotives. The 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s had long lives post war and new 2-8-2 were built for India and Pakistan, Portugal and Australia. A number of early post war British locomotives introduced features first seen in the UK on the 2-8-0s.

To get on with the thread however, the Russian Class E 0-10-0 (including later subclasses) with about 10 000 units is generally agreed as the most numerous single class of steam locomotive, followed by the German wartime class 52 2-10-0 with around 7000 units built.

Soviet diesels, too are likely to be the most common single classes:

Class TE3  had 6803 (twin units) = 13606 locomotives

Class 2TE10L had 3533 (twin units) = 7066 locomotives

There were several other 2TE10 developments, 1557 2TE10V = 3114 locomotives, 3000 2TE10M = 6000 locomotives.

All of these used Fairbanks Morse design opposed piston engines with 207mm bore, which might give that engine a chance of beating the EMD 567 type in numbers.

M636C

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Posted by coborn35 on Sunday, June 17, 2007 1:17 PM
As far as popular with crews, The Cadillac, AKA SD9.

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Posted by CMSTPP on Sunday, June 17, 2007 2:04 PM

On the Wisconsin Central (back in the good ol' days) I heard that the most popular locomotive was the SDL39. It was light weight and had a lot of power under it's hood. I had a lot of engineers say they were some of the best they ever ran.

James

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Posted by Simon Reed on Sunday, June 17, 2007 3:39 PM

M636 - you are correct - as usual!

I meant USATC and whilst I can't dispute their longevity all accounts I've ever read suggest that they were immensely unpopular.

Just today I read an article about the Porter And Vulcan built 0-6-0's for WW2 service. Their drain cocks were so inadequate that within months many of them had hydraulicked.

Regrettably I've already passed the magazine I referred to earlier to my local preservation group (they'll sell it on to raise funds) but I'll try and find a copy on line. 

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 17, 2007 5:17 PM

 

To get on with the thread however, the Russian Class E 0-10-0 (including later subclasses) with about 10 000 units is generally agreed as the most numerous single class of steam locomotive, followed by the German wartime class 52 2-10-0 with around 7000 units built.

Soviet diesels, too are likely to be the most common single classes:

Class TE3  had 6803 (twin units) = 13606 locomotives

Class 2TE10L had 3533 (twin units) = 7066 locomotives

I think you are absolutely correct with the numbers.  I looked up diesel production in North America, using a source that was printed in 1994.  The closest competitor produced in the USA or Canada on the diesel side was the EMD GP-9, with 3436 units built between January, 1954, and December, 1959.  Second place in the diesel division for North America also goes to EMD, with 3131 units of the SD40-2 produced from January, 1972 to February, 1986.

I wonder if the Russians have a railroad museum, and if so, if one of their TE3's is there.

I have heard rumors that the German "Kreigslok", which I believe is the model  2-10-0 you mentioned, has a functional unit somewhere in Germany, probably in a museum as well.

Maybe TRAINS should send someone over to Russia to see what their railroading is like.  (I volunteer, Jim- I'll even get my passport updated.)

Erik

PS.  Manifold apologies for the use of the word "popular" in the title.  I was looking for the largest sales of locomotive types made to worldwide railroads.  This kind of decision isn't made by locomotive engineers, who have a different set of criteria for what is popular with them.

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Posted by wctransfer on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 2:29 PM

I heard the SDL39s also ran quite well, but the WC SD45s with EM 2000  (7495,7496,6497?,7498,and the 7499) trumped them. Not only more horse obviously, but these were the best running SD45s known to man, could pull you out of anything at low end, and could pull through the roof at the top end.

Alec

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Posted by MStLfan on Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:54 AM
 erikthered wrote:

I have heard rumors that the German "Kreigslok", which I believe is the model  2-10-0 you mentioned, has a functional unit somewhere in Germany, probably in a museum as well.

There is an active 2-10-0 Kriegslok of the 52 series, unreconstructed too, with the Dutch museum railroad VSM (link: http://www.stoomtrein.org/index.html, no english text but click materieel, stoomlocomotieven is steamtrains).

Link to picture of said locomotive: http://www.stoomtrein.org/materieel/images/523804.jpg

VSM also has a number of reconstructed 52's (Reko-52) from the former East Germany.

52's are simplified 50 series.

greetings,

Marc Immeker

 

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Posted by WCfan on Thursday, June 21, 2007 12:13 PM
 wctransfer wrote:

I heard the SDL39s also ran quite well, but the WC SD45s with EM 2000  (7495,7496,6497?,7498,and the 7499) trumped them. Not only more horse obviously, but these were the best running SD45s known to man, could pull you out of anything at low end, and could pull through the roof at the top end.

Alec

And those units where most popular by crews. Right?

For quanity, the GP38-2, and the SD40-2.

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Posted by CPRail modeler on Friday, June 22, 2007 12:10 PM

SD40-2 for the quantity and the F7 for popularity.

i like the SD40-2 better though...

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Posted by Simon Reed on Friday, June 22, 2007 3:53 PM

Sorry, folks, but I still have'nt found that article.

As for most prolific builders...that's a good question.

In most European countries the railway companies designed and built their own locomotives but for South America, Africa and Asia locomotives tended to be bought in, depending on which colonial power held the most influence and which political alignment was most favourable.

I could be well off the mark here but I'd imagine that companies like Henschel, Orenstein & Koppel, Hunslet and North British would score more highly on this than Lima, Baldwin or Alco. 

That's steam, of course. I should imagine that the various incarnations of EMD would take the crown for diesel.

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 22, 2007 5:34 PM

Simon, what was the magazine and issue you speak of?  Maybe I can get a back issue...

Erik

PS. According to my "Encyclopedia of Trains and Locomotives", EMD is the winner of the most diesels produced from the 40's through the mid 90's.  I am sure that GE has taken over the lead now, but neither of them put together comes close to the Soviet diesel you mentioned earlier.

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Posted by Simon Reed on Friday, June 22, 2007 6:53 PM

Erik

It's a monthly UK publication called Railway Magazine. Their website is'nt of much use but the article was in one of the issues this year. I very much regret passing the copy on because it really was quite a fascinating piece.

Some of my compatriots post in the "General" forum and I'll put a message on there aking for help.

I have bought Railway Magazine in the US. Some of the bigger branches of Borders carry it. 

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Posted by Hugh Jampton on Monday, June 25, 2007 10:08 AM

As far as the North American market goes, the top 10 looks like this:

 

Manufacturer Model Start Date End Date No. Built
EMD GP9 Jan.54 Dec.59 4092
EMD SD40-2 Jan.72 Feb.86 3957
EMD F7(A&B) Feb.49 Dec.53 3849
EMD GP7 Oct.49 May.54 2724
GE AC4400CW 1993 2004 2598
EMD F3(A&B) Jul.45 Feb.49 1807
ALCO S-2 Apr.40 Jun.50 1502
ALCO RS-3 May.50 Aug.56 1370
EMD GP35 Oct.63 Jan.66 1313
EMD SD40 Jan.66 Dec.71 1275

 

data from various sources. 

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Posted by Amtrak_Titan on Monday, June 25, 2007 11:02 PM
I think the most popular passenger unit built in the United States is the Genesis locomotive.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:21 AM

 Amtrak_Titan wrote:
I think the most popular passenger unit built in the United States is the Genesis locomotive.

Not quite.  Off the top of my head, I know that there were over 400 E7A/B's and over 400 E8A/B's built in the United States.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:41 AM

The Genesis point got me to thinking- how do you measure popularity?  What I was trying to do was figure out why railroads bought locomotives the way they did.  The only measure I could come up with in terms of popularity was number of units sold.  I am not sure that a government contract- like AMTRAK did for the Genesis- is a really fair example of popularity with buisness executives who want bang for the buck and a product that will meet their needs best.

I guess we could rule out the Soviet examples, and the German steamer as well- both examples of government control where you took it or left it.

Suggestions?

Erik

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