All,
I'm curious when the Central Railroad of New Jersey retired it's EMD F3's. Does anyone know?
Modeler of the Lehigh Valley Railroad in Bethlehem PA, 1971 and railfan of Norfolk Southern's Lehigh and Reading Lines of the modern day.
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"When railroading time comes you can railroad...but not before."
- Robert A. Heinlein
You know, it's the darndest thing. I've got CNJ diesel rosters in my books, and I can find rosters on-line, I can find when they took delivery but nothing about when they retired any of them!
The best I can tell you comes from a caption in one of the books. It shows a CNJ F-3 in mid-1965, but says it was one of the last to go as trade-ins to EMD. So, it's safe to assume they were probably all gone by the end of 1965. If I find out anything else I'll let you know.
Thanks Flint!
I model 1971 so I don't need anything any more specific than that.
I spoke to an acquaintance of mine who happens to know a lot about these railroads, and he said that they were indeed all traded in to EMD by 1965.
You're welcome! But I'd remind you of one thing...
Your railroad, your rules! If you like the look of the Jersey Central's F-3's, either the original tangerine and blue color scheme or the later green with yellow stripes, and think they're cool, go for it! Put one on the layout! I won't say anything...
Anyway, here's some Jersey Central F-3 action from the 1949 promo film "The Big Little Railroad."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kYeg5A6jBE
Now here's a bit of CNJ "useless knowledge " for you.
Flush with cash after WW2, and not having purchased any new locomotives since 1930, the CNJ looked hard at buying 4-6-6-4 "Challenger" type steam locomotives for freight engines, but decided to go with EMD F-3's instead. Obviously they saw the diesel handwriting on the wall.
Interesting to speculate how that might have worked out.
HO Hobbyist, if you're still out there I found some more CNJ F3 footage for you.
These are F3's in the later "Sea Green" with yellow striping color scheme.
A few other CNJ locomotives, steam and diesel, are there to be seen as well.
Have fun!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfzLmdKl5E4&t=48s
Flintlock76Flush with cash after WW2, and not having purchased any new locomotives since 1930, the CNJ looked hard at buying 4-6-6-4 "Challenger" type steam locomotives for freight engines, but decided to go with EMD F-3's instead.
LV would still have been ahead of them, though -- they went so far toward acquiring 'better' duplex 4-4-6-4s that they had an official diagram for one in their records. Unsurprisingly, and probably much for the best, they went with Alcos instead...
Flintlock76 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfzLmdKl5E4&t=48s
An amazing number of F3's MU'd with various Alco's.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Yes, wasn't that something?
I've got volumes one and two of "Along The Jersey Central" and they're like time machines. I haven't gotten volumes three and four yet but that will come.
Somehow, I find it quite difficult to envision Challengers operating on what was basically a large terminal railroad.
CSSHEGEWISCHSomehow, I find it quite difficult to envision Challengers operating on what was basically a large terminal railroad.
A terminal railroad that had lines climbing out of many river valleys - lots of grades to conquer.
Also, the CNJ people were aware of the Delaware and Hudson's Challengers and the great service that 'road was getting out of them, so it was a tempting prospect.
And the CNJ was a bit more than a terminal 'road post-war, it was one of the "Anthracite Railroads," hauling tons of the stuff to tidewater. No-one had any idea of the imminent collapse of the anthracite market.
Flintlock76 HO Hobbyist, if you're still out there I found some more CNJ F3 footage for you. These are F3's in the later "Sea Green" with yellow striping color scheme. A few other CNJ locomotives, steam and diesel, are there to be seen as well. Have fun! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfzLmdKl5E4&t=48s
I was intrigued by the Ashley Planes at the end of that video, so I did a little searching on the subject. I knew inclined planes were used in the very early days, but I had no idea any were still in use well into the twentieth century. Thanks, Flintlock.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
You're welcome Paul!
Interesting fact about the Ashley Planes. After the CNJ took delivery of the F3's the Planes were rendered obsolete. The great pulling power of the diesels made it possible to get the loaded coal cars up "From the valley of anthracite" by conventional railroading.
The Ashley Planes to diesel transition is shown in the 1949 CNJ promo film "The Big Little Railroad." Too bad that excerpt I found left it out.
I'm pretty sure that one of the CNJ F-type units has been preserved, in the blue and tangerine color paint scheme. Not enough time this morning to look it up, though.
- PDN.
P.S. - It was easier than I thought. Link to a photo:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3663379
Not originals, though - repainted from something else, and now repainted again - see 4th paragraph at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F3#Surviving_examples
Many don't realize that the CNJ had a large operation in Pennsylvania until the 1970's. In fact, the large Allentown yard still used by NS was originally CNJ.
Backshop Many don't realize that the CNJ had a large operation in Pennsylvania until the 1970's. In fact, the large Allentown yard still used by NS was originally CNJ.
Quite true, in fact the CNJ re-classified the Pennsylvania operations into the Central Railroad of Pennsylvania in an attempt to dodge the ever-rising New Jersey corporate taxes, but it didn't work.
CNJ also tried joint operation with the LV in PA.
MidlandMike CNJ also tried joint operation with the LV in PA.
They did, and that did work. The CNJ and LV had lines that essentially duplicated each other, so it was easier and more economical to "join forces" and eliminate unnessary trackage.
BackshopMany don't realize that the CNJ had a large operation in Pennsylvania until the 1970s.
See the recent thread elsewhere on the 'other' famous CNJ train, counterpart to the Blue Comet -- "The Bullet" which ran from New York to Wilkes-Barre in about 4 and a half hours inclusive of the ferry trip. My first cab experience was with RSDs out of Wilkes-Barre on CNJ. It interchanged with PRR at Buttonwood probably contributing to traffic over the Wilkes-Barre Connecting Railroad to the D&H. Alive with railroads even into my late childhood ... almost all gone now. The CNJ downtown where I boarded the consist of RSDs is so long gone that a shopping center constructed as 'urban renewal' on the site is itself now long gone.
I remember being nearly as astonished to hear the CNJ was abandoning its lines in Pennsylvania as I was to hear of the discontinuation of the Milwaukee electrification ... and later, of the entire PCE. As late as 1972 you could watch sizable trains negotiating trackage to and from Pennsylvania within the confines of the ex-Playboy Great Gorge hotel facility. To this day I believe traffic uses the ex-CNJ bridge to Pennsylvania at Easton ... instead of the much more massive-looking Lehigh Valley bridge.
Overmodsizable trains negotiating trackage to and from Pennsylvania within the confines of the ex-Playboy Great Gorge hotel facility.
Train watching combined with Playboy bunny watching - sounds like the male railfan's idea of heaven. Imagine what the photos brought home from a day of railfanning be like!
I would say 1965 as I believe they were traded in to EMD for SD35's which were built in May and June 1965. Don't forget the EMD F7's leased from the B&O and N&W in the late 60's-early 70's
BEAUSABRETrain watching combined with Playboy bunny watching - sounds like the male railfan's idea of heaven.
Of course I was only like 15 when it opened, and not out of college when Hef sold it off, and as I understand it the whole complex very nearly followed CNJ of PA into oblivion, so much of the actual "opportunity" was a bit wasted on a kid. But it was the only time I saw the Red Baron running... strange that the memory is more vivid than that of any of the Bunnies...
Overmod the whole complex very nearly followed CNJ of PA into oblivion
The old Playboy resort complex is still out there, but it's essentially a standing ruin at this point. Plans come and go as to what to do with it, obviously somebody owns the property, but at this time it's empty except for vagrants who come and go.
Here's the story:
https://www.nj.com/news/2020/03/it-used-to-be-a-luxurious-playboy-resort-now-its-just-an-overgrown-vacant-hotel.html
OvermodI remember being nearly as astonished to hear the CNJ was abandoning its lines in Pennsylvania as I was to hear of the discontinuation of the Milwaukee electrification ... and later, of the entire PCE. As late as 1972 you could watch sizable trains negotiating trackage to and from Pennsylvania within the confines of the ex-Playboy Great Gorge hotel facility. To this day I believe traffic uses the ex-CNJ bridge to Pennsylvania at Easton ... instead of the much more massive-looking Lehigh Valley bridge.
Was that the Lehigh & Hudson in th Great Gorge area?
MidlandMikeWas that the Lehigh & Hudson in the Great Gorge area?
CNJ did take over traffic on part of the L&NE (rather than L&HR) after that railroad closed itself in the early 1960s. But I don't think that line went by Great Gorge.
I never saw any CNJ motive power, but I really liked their dark green and yellow scheme.
MidlandMikeWas that the Lehigh & Hudson in th Great Gorge area?
Yes, the Lehigh & Hudson River ran through Vernon/Great Gorge. The trackage is still there and used by the Susquehanna now.
charlie hebdo I never saw any CNJ motive power, but I really liked their dark green and yellow scheme.
A classic scheme indeed. They adopted it when the original tangerine and blue didn't work out, the paints available at the time not being anywhere near as durable as what we have now the original scheme didn't bear up well.
Flintlock76 charlie hebdo I never saw any CNJ motive power, but I really liked their dark green and yellow scheme. A classic scheme indeed. They adopted it when the original tangerine and blue didn't work out, the paints available at the time not being anywhere near as durable as what we have now the original scheme didn't bear up well.
True. I always felt the tangerine and blue scheme looked toy-like. Ironically, I once repainted a model F3 in the green and gold scheme.
Interestingly, the original tangerine and blue scheme on the CNJ's Baldwin double-enders had a red border between the blue and tangerine areas. The CNJ left that part off subsequent cab units as an economy measure. Here's a look at one.
http://www.homauchchunk.co.uk/diesel.htm
That Fairbanks-Morse road-switcher has an interesting scheme as well, blue with tangerine stripes. That didn't hold up well either.
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