Flintlock76The L&HR would have had to use EL passenger equipment...
ISTR this proposal came up and was discussed at some point during the planning to build the short rail spur to the Meadowlands to make it more convenient to watch the North Arlington Giants play.
I dimly recall that adding some special 'hospitality' bar car service was initially part of the idea, as such a section might have lucrative patronage in regular service; the idea had been popular 'across the river' (technically more than one of them) and this was, in fact, later extended to modern equipment there, and there was at least one train club that had paid for its own 'accommodations' on the ex-Lackawanna and some version of that concept inside a couple of the new cars might be extended on a couple of the NJT services. Probably wouldn't have gone anywhere, and would have involved more planning to get the 'right' train on the right service, but might have affected the perceived 'money-losing' aspect of the trains at a time EL probably could have used the revenue and publicity.
Yes, it'd be interesting to know what the source was, this is the first I've heard of that proposal. The L&HR would have had to use EL passenger equipment, they had none of their own.
Flintlock76Yes, the Lehigh & Hudson River ran through Vernon/Great Gorge. The trackage is still there and used by the Susquehanna now.
During the mid-1970s, the L&HR became part of a proposal to run "Bunny Ski Trains" between Hoboken, New Jersey, and the Playboy Resort (Great Gorge) in Vernon, New Jersey. The proposed service, which would have run on weekends during the winter, would have retrieved passengers westbound along the Erie Lackawanna Railway's (EL) Morristown Line to Netcong, New Jersey, then run along a short section of the remaining Sussex Branch to Andover Junction in Andover, New Jersey, and then northbound along the L&HR to the Playboy Club. The service would have utilized EL's new commuter consists, but was met with stiff opposition from EL management, which was anticipating a merger with other northeastern US railroads and did not want to enter into a venture that it viewed as a potential money-loser. The Bunny Ski Train remained a viable proposal until the remaining vestige of the Sussex Branch was removed in July 1977, after it became clear that it was no longer needed as a connector to the L&HR.
Interestingly, the original tangerine and blue scheme on the CNJ's Baldwin double-enders had a red border between the blue and tangerine areas. The CNJ left that part off subsequent cab units as an economy measure. Here's a look at one.
http://www.homauchchunk.co.uk/diesel.htm
That Fairbanks-Morse road-switcher has an interesting scheme as well, blue with tangerine stripes. That didn't hold up well either.
Flintlock76 charlie hebdo I never saw any CNJ motive power, but I really liked their dark green and yellow scheme. A classic scheme indeed. They adopted it when the original tangerine and blue didn't work out, the paints available at the time not being anywhere near as durable as what we have now the original scheme didn't bear up well.
charlie hebdo I never saw any CNJ motive power, but I really liked their dark green and yellow scheme.
I never saw any CNJ motive power, but I really liked their dark green and yellow scheme.
A classic scheme indeed. They adopted it when the original tangerine and blue didn't work out, the paints available at the time not being anywhere near as durable as what we have now the original scheme didn't bear up well.
True. I always felt the tangerine and blue scheme looked toy-like. Ironically, I once repainted a model F3 in the green and gold scheme.
MidlandMikeWas that the Lehigh & Hudson in th Great Gorge area?
Yes, the Lehigh & Hudson River ran through Vernon/Great Gorge. The trackage is still there and used by the Susquehanna now.
MidlandMikeWas that the Lehigh & Hudson in the Great Gorge area?
CNJ did take over traffic on part of the L&NE (rather than L&HR) after that railroad closed itself in the early 1960s. But I don't think that line went by Great Gorge.
OvermodI remember being nearly as astonished to hear the CNJ was abandoning its lines in Pennsylvania as I was to hear of the discontinuation of the Milwaukee electrification ... and later, of the entire PCE. As late as 1972 you could watch sizable trains negotiating trackage to and from Pennsylvania within the confines of the ex-Playboy Great Gorge hotel facility. To this day I believe traffic uses the ex-CNJ bridge to Pennsylvania at Easton ... instead of the much more massive-looking Lehigh Valley bridge.
Was that the Lehigh & Hudson in th Great Gorge area?
Overmod the whole complex very nearly followed CNJ of PA into oblivion
The old Playboy resort complex is still out there, but it's essentially a standing ruin at this point. Plans come and go as to what to do with it, obviously somebody owns the property, but at this time it's empty except for vagrants who come and go.
Here's the story:
https://www.nj.com/news/2020/03/it-used-to-be-a-luxurious-playboy-resort-now-its-just-an-overgrown-vacant-hotel.html
BEAUSABRETrain watching combined with Playboy bunny watching - sounds like the male railfan's idea of heaven.
Of course I was only like 15 when it opened, and not out of college when Hef sold it off, and as I understand it the whole complex very nearly followed CNJ of PA into oblivion, so much of the actual "opportunity" was a bit wasted on a kid. But it was the only time I saw the Red Baron running... strange that the memory is more vivid than that of any of the Bunnies...
I would say 1965 as I believe they were traded in to EMD for SD35's which were built in May and June 1965. Don't forget the EMD F7's leased from the B&O and N&W in the late 60's-early 70's
Overmodsizable trains negotiating trackage to and from Pennsylvania within the confines of the ex-Playboy Great Gorge hotel facility.
Train watching combined with Playboy bunny watching - sounds like the male railfan's idea of heaven. Imagine what the photos brought home from a day of railfanning be like!
BackshopMany don't realize that the CNJ had a large operation in Pennsylvania until the 1970s.
See the recent thread elsewhere on the 'other' famous CNJ train, counterpart to the Blue Comet -- "The Bullet" which ran from New York to Wilkes-Barre in about 4 and a half hours inclusive of the ferry trip. My first cab experience was with RSDs out of Wilkes-Barre on CNJ. It interchanged with PRR at Buttonwood probably contributing to traffic over the Wilkes-Barre Connecting Railroad to the D&H. Alive with railroads even into my late childhood ... almost all gone now. The CNJ downtown where I boarded the consist of RSDs is so long gone that a shopping center constructed as 'urban renewal' on the site is itself now long gone.
I remember being nearly as astonished to hear the CNJ was abandoning its lines in Pennsylvania as I was to hear of the discontinuation of the Milwaukee electrification ... and later, of the entire PCE. As late as 1972 you could watch sizable trains negotiating trackage to and from Pennsylvania within the confines of the ex-Playboy Great Gorge hotel facility. To this day I believe traffic uses the ex-CNJ bridge to Pennsylvania at Easton ... instead of the much more massive-looking Lehigh Valley bridge.
MidlandMike CNJ also tried joint operation with the LV in PA.
CNJ also tried joint operation with the LV in PA.
They did, and that did work. The CNJ and LV had lines that essentially duplicated each other, so it was easier and more economical to "join forces" and eliminate unnessary trackage.
Backshop Many don't realize that the CNJ had a large operation in Pennsylvania until the 1970's. In fact, the large Allentown yard still used by NS was originally CNJ.
Many don't realize that the CNJ had a large operation in Pennsylvania until the 1970's. In fact, the large Allentown yard still used by NS was originally CNJ.
Quite true, in fact the CNJ re-classified the Pennsylvania operations into the Central Railroad of Pennsylvania in an attempt to dodge the ever-rising New Jersey corporate taxes, but it didn't work.
I'm pretty sure that one of the CNJ F-type units has been preserved, in the blue and tangerine color paint scheme. Not enough time this morning to look it up, though.
- PDN.
P.S. - It was easier than I thought. Link to a photo:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3663379
Not originals, though - repainted from something else, and now repainted again - see 4th paragraph at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_F3#Surviving_examples
You're welcome Paul!
Interesting fact about the Ashley Planes. After the CNJ took delivery of the F3's the Planes were rendered obsolete. The great pulling power of the diesels made it possible to get the loaded coal cars up "From the valley of anthracite" by conventional railroading.
The Ashley Planes to diesel transition is shown in the 1949 CNJ promo film "The Big Little Railroad." Too bad that excerpt I found left it out.
Flintlock76 HO Hobbyist, if you're still out there I found some more CNJ F3 footage for you. These are F3's in the later "Sea Green" with yellow striping color scheme. A few other CNJ locomotives, steam and diesel, are there to be seen as well. Have fun! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfzLmdKl5E4&t=48s
HO Hobbyist, if you're still out there I found some more CNJ F3 footage for you.
These are F3's in the later "Sea Green" with yellow striping color scheme.
A few other CNJ locomotives, steam and diesel, are there to be seen as well.
Have fun!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfzLmdKl5E4&t=48s
I was intrigued by the Ashley Planes at the end of that video, so I did a little searching on the subject. I knew inclined planes were used in the very early days, but I had no idea any were still in use well into the twentieth century. Thanks, Flintlock.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Also, the CNJ people were aware of the Delaware and Hudson's Challengers and the great service that 'road was getting out of them, so it was a tempting prospect.
And the CNJ was a bit more than a terminal 'road post-war, it was one of the "Anthracite Railroads," hauling tons of the stuff to tidewater. No-one had any idea of the imminent collapse of the anthracite market.
CSSHEGEWISCHSomehow, I find it quite difficult to envision Challengers operating on what was basically a large terminal railroad.
A terminal railroad that had lines climbing out of many river valleys - lots of grades to conquer.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Somehow, I find it quite difficult to envision Challengers operating on what was basically a large terminal railroad.
Yes, wasn't that something?
I've got volumes one and two of "Along The Jersey Central" and they're like time machines. I haven't gotten volumes three and four yet but that will come.
Flintlock76 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfzLmdKl5E4&t=48s
An amazing number of F3's MU'd with various Alco's.
Flintlock76Flush with cash after WW2, and not having purchased any new locomotives since 1930, the CNJ looked hard at buying 4-6-6-4 "Challenger" type steam locomotives for freight engines, but decided to go with EMD F-3's instead.
LV would still have been ahead of them, though -- they went so far toward acquiring 'better' duplex 4-4-6-4s that they had an official diagram for one in their records. Unsurprisingly, and probably much for the best, they went with Alcos instead...
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