The multiple owners is the giveaway. You're thinking of a VGN EL-C, which had five owners (VGN, N&W, NH, PC, CR).
100% correct. Now locate it and then ask the next questionj. Regarding ahint for its location, it is cosmetically restored as a New Haven EF-4, which indeed were its days of greatest exposure and even triumph, with two units replacing four GP-9s in pullngg 100-car trains up the Hell Gate approaches.
daveklepper CSSHEGEWISCH Close enough. The CL class was built for Commonwealth Railways in 1970, model AT26C, with a 16-645 engine rated at 3000 HP. daveklepper, your question.
CSSHEGEWISCH Close enough. The CL class was built for Commonwealth Railways in 1970, model AT26C, with a 16-645 engine rated at 3000 HP. daveklepper, your question.
Close enough. The CL class was built for Commonwealth Railways in 1970, model AT26C, with a 16-645 engine rated at 3000 HP.
daveklepper, your question.
Agree with this proposal only if -----------
1. No Amtrak money used
2. A suitable frame can be found. Must not have any frame damage issues that cannot be returned to as new condition.
3. Trucks repairable and capable of at least 110 MPH.
4. Traction motors can be either AC or DC based on best engineering practices.
5. Acceptable in advance by agreement to run on Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT, MNRR without limit.
6. Maybe HEP inverter(s) installed.
7. Fully ACSES & PTC capable
possibly other items ?
AC 25Hz commutator motors, as on a GG1, work fine on dc. They don't even rotate but just chatter and burn up on 60Hz. So I am proposing to reinisulate, perhaps even to rewoiund, the existing motors which fit the quill drives and keep alll aspects of the exterior authentic. That is why saving the AEM7-DC electricals is important, since they will convert 25Hz and 60Hz to the dc for the motors.
Location of the EF-4/E-33 please?
daveklepper AC 25Hz commutator motors, as on a GG1, work fine on dc. They don't even rotate but just chatter and burn up on 60Hz. So I am proposing to reinisulate, perhaps even to rewoiund, the existing motors which fit the quill drives and keep alll aspects of the exterior authentic. That is why saving the AEM7-DC electricals is important, since they will convert 25Hz and 60Hz to the dc for the motors. Location of the EF-4/E-33 please?
Swanberg gives Conrail 4601 at the Connecticut Valley Museum at Essex.
4604 in Roanoke VA is painted as VGN 135.
I'm surprised at the number of Australian references so far:
There were only five SD40-2SS, but Australia got 97 JT26C-2SS cab units with the same equipment, and around 30 more with AR11 alternators in place of the mighty AR16 in the originals.
These units spend much of their time grinding up grades in pairs on heavy grain trains and are seen as valuable and have been heavily rebuilt at least twice, retaining the original engines and electricals. The super series control is really valuable on steep grades in poor weather.
Australia was a big customer for DL500s, but these have generally finally left regular traffic with the recent downturn.
Eight of the AT26Cs are stored. These are owned by Aurizon, the successor to Queensland Railways, (so Dave was closer than some thought) including CLP10, a HEP conversion of CL17, the last Bulldog built new. It is hoped this will be preserved. Nobody seems to want these for further use. Genessee and Wyoming Australia have the remaining seven, still in service for the time being.
M636C
The Connecticut museum EF-4 is the one I was looking for, so you get to ask the next question. It has been restored to New Haven paint and looks great. Along the lines I have suggested, there is no reason it could not be made operational to run on both 60Hz and 25Hz.
How long are the seven Genesse and Wyoming "Bulldogs" expected to continue to be used?
daveklepper100% correct. Now locate it and then ask the next questionj. Regarding ahint for its location, it is cosmetically restored as a New Haven EF-4
How about the E44 in the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania? It was gutted to remove the PCB filled transformer and would also require a transplant to become operational again.
daveklepper The Connecticut museum EF-4 is the one I was looking for, so you get to ask the next question. It has been restored to New Haven paint and looks great. Along the lines I have suggested, there is no reason it could not be made operational to run on both 60Hz and 25Hz. How long are the seven Genesse and Wyoming "Bulldogs" expected to continue to be used?
OK
What was the smallest conventional Baldwin road switcher and who was its only customer?
G&W Australia have just repainted two of their AT26C units and I saw one in early January. The bad news is that they have lost iron ore traffic that had used ten new EMD units GT46C ACe, basically SD70ACe type, so the AT26C might be surplus in the near future.
M636CWhat was the smallest conventional Baldwin road switcher and who was its only customer?
This is interesting. I'd have said RS4TC, but that locomotive had two customers (the US Army and the Air Force)
The Atlantic Richfield diesel-hydraulic was smaller, but of course not a road switcher.
Would the smallest conventional Baldwin roadswitcher be the 6 1000HP, boiler equipped engines built for the Pennsylvania? Four of them survived as class BRS10sx into the PennCentral years as the 8050-8053, later renumbered 8300-8303 I think. They were assigned to Pavonia enginehouse in Camden New Jersey and used on local freights, yard jobs, industry jobs, coach shifters at 30th street and Pemberton branch passenger "lines" until that service ended in 1969.
Took alot of snapshots of them in my youth. Rode 'em a few times, too!
I meant a diesel electric road switcher with a 600 series engine (if a small one).
I didn't research the question well enough. While there was technically only one customer, the locomotives ended up on two railroads, although the great majority were on one.
Aha, I detect a trick question.
Was the 'customer' the French Supply Council, with most of the locomotives going to SNCF but some going to Morocco?
DRS-6-4-660 - if that is the right class - wasn't really that 'small' except with respect to horsepower. And I thought the engine wasn't different in external physical size from any other 606NA, just derated (it should have been extremely reliable at that peak output!) I for one would be interested to know the 'details' of how the engine was adjusted or designed for the lower output -- was it similar to a 600-series version of a VO-660?
Wizlish Aha, I detect a trick question. Was the 'customer' the French Supply Council, with most of the locomotives going to SNCF but some going to Morocco? DRS-6-4-660 - if that is the right class - wasn't really that 'small' except with respect to horsepower.
DRS-6-4-660 - if that is the right class - wasn't really that 'small' except with respect to horsepower.
Went to bed last night and realized my answer was totally wrong. Canadian Pacific had 13 1000hp roadswitchers and Tennessee Central had 3. I forgot about those export jobs. Cool little engines. Do any still run?
I'd like to pose more of a direct question than a quiz... regarding the diesel locomotive that holds the current world speed record. I have never seen a technical discussion of the engine or transmission details that were used to reach the record speed, and would like to know them (with as much technical detail as possible).
Wizlish I'd like to pose more of a direct question than a quiz... regarding the diesel locomotive that holds the current world speed record. I have never seen a technical discussion of the engine or transmission details that were used to reach the record speed, and would like to know them (with as much technical detail as possible).
Checking Wikipedia, there are three contenders:
A Russian TEP-80 locomotive, described as an unverified claim (271 km/h)
The Spanish "Talgo XXI" described as builder's claim (256 km/h)
The BR class 43 (current verified record) (238 km/h)
Wikipedia seems to think the Talgo XXI is diesel electric but I rather thought it was diesel hydraulic, driven on one truck only.
I doubt that you were interested in the Class 43 which is pretty well known.
Assuming you are asking about the TEP-80
It is a Bo'Bo'Bo'Bo' with eight truck frame mounted ED 121 VUHL DC traction motors with a total power of 4552 kW.
The engine is a model 1D49 V-20, 260mm x 260mm developing 6000 HP at 1100 rpm driving a GS 519U2 alternator.
It has two stage turbocharging with separate intercooling of each stage.
It has microprocessor control and 4MW of dynamic braking.
The locomotive TEP80-0002 is preserved in the St Petersburg railway museum.
Did you want more detailed information?
M636CDid you want more detailed information?
As much as you have (or can provide links for). I'd like to see the detail design of the traction motors and their connection to the wheels, the suspension and damping arrangements, and the electrical control arrangements incljuding field weakening, for example. I have not been able to find this in English-language sources...
M636C It has two stage turbocharging with separate intercooling of each stage.
Picking nits... (annoying pedant and all that)
The cooler between the two stages of turbocharging is the intercooler, the cooler between the last stage of turbocharging and the intake manifold is the aftercooler.
With that said, a nice rundown.
- Erik
erikem M636C It has two stage turbocharging with separate intercooling of each stage. Picking nits... (annoying pedant and all that) The cooler between the two stages of turbocharging is the intercooler, the cooler between the last stage of turbocharging and the intake manifold is the aftercooler. With that said, a nice rundown. - Erik
The translated Russian reads:
"two-stage turbocharging and intercooling twice in the air cooler".
While I understand your point, both stages are between a turbocharger and the engine and could be regarded as "intercooling".
Wizlish M636C Did you want more detailed information? As much as you have (or can provide links for). I'd like to see the detail design of the traction motors and their connection to the wheels, the suspension and damping arrangements, and the electrical control arrangements incljuding field weakening, for example. I have not been able to find this in English-language sources...
M636C Did you want more detailed information?
At this stage we should look at the development of the TEP 80.
The "family" started off with the TEP 70 which was based on the structure of the Brush HS4000 prototype, and a 4000HP version of the D49 engine. Critically, it had a 22.5 metric ton axle load which was the maximum allowed for high speed passenger service in Russia.
The next stage was the TEP 75, which combined the TEP 70 body with a 20 cylinder 6000 HP version of the D49 diesel engine.
The TEP 75 uses the same type of traction motor as later TEP 80.
In the description of the TEP 75, the (translated) text reads:
"The drive from the traction motors to couples wheeled locomotive was carried out through the hollow propeller shaft and centered coupling."
I interpret this to mean that the drive is a shaft passing through the hollow motor armature with a flexible coupling to the motor at one end and the drive gear at the other. This arrangement is used on British HST power cars Class 43 and the Spanish built Class 67 which uses a special version of the EMD D43 motor.
The traction motors have one stage of field weakening.
The traction alternator is made up of two machines coupled in parallel at starting and switched to series connection at higher speed. The EMD AR11 has similar connections.
The TEP 75 ended up being overweight at 147 tonnes and was too heavy for production for service. Only two prototypes were built.
To get the weight down to 22.5 tonnes per axle, an eight axle version was designed, which became the TEP 80. This used the same traction equipment as the TEP 75 but with two more motors.
The trucks are described:
"Four-carts formed a common rigid frame and pairwise balanced wheeled pairs, have a two-stage spring suspension and individual support-frame drive. Bogie frame with a body and a pair of wheel bogie frame are connected by means of coil springs with hydraulic shock absorbers included."
I read this to mean that the axles are connected in equalised pairs, connected to the main truck frame by flexicoils, and the main frame is supported on the main truck frame by flexicoils, with hydraulic dampers in each stage.
So I don't have to do this every time, here is a technique to get access to the native language Wiki entry.
Go to the English Wikipedia TEP 80 entry. Click on the lead photo. Go to the expanded data entry on the photo. Scroll down until you find the link to the Russian language entry, and click it. That takes you to the Russian Wiki entry. Then use your browser's translation facility. The result can be pretty rough, as seen above.
I do feel a bit targeted by the question. Nobody else has posted much on Russian locomotives.
But you do get the reward of asking the next question, so ask!
daveklepper In all cases the transformer would have to be replaced, because 25Hz transformers definitely do not work at 60Hz unless derated to the extent that the loco would barely be able to move itself.
The NEC is still 25 Hz, 11,000 VAC between New York and Washington. That E-33 would run just fine, as is! (if it hasn't had a transformer-ectomy). They were running around with mineral oil coolant in their last days on Conrail (but windings were PCB contaminated, just the same) They were also converted from ignitron tube rectifiers to solid state silicon by Conrail in the late 70's at Harrsiburg.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
daveklepper But you do get the reward of asking the next question, so ask!
You are right Dave....
Technically the questioner should say that I've given him the answer....
Bearing in mind that I'm a bit unhappy....
What railroad received the first production C36-7 units in 1977...?
Where were they built?
What feature did they have to suit them to a very hot climate?
What railroad was the last to operate them.
.
The 3 Hamersley Iron units built 5/78 at the NSW Goninan plant? They had an additional radiator for the dynamic brake grids to facilitate greater cooling in the Pilbara.
5057 and 5058 are still on ALL in Brazil, and 5059 is on the Minnesota Commercial. Remarkable that all survive.
As a note, these quiz threads do work much better and more smoothly if the author knows the answer to their question; there can be debate over the correct answer and other problems if they do not.
,
An aside, concerning those Chinese C36-7s: Quite a few of them were handled dead-in-tow down the RF&P. I had them in my train a few times. They were built with tires shrunk on their drivers, like steam locomotives! The B&O was bringing a group of them down the Metropolitan Sub into DC, set up "like boxcars", in that their brakes would apply with the rest of the train and not bale off like the in-service power. The engineer stretch broke the train, pretty much all the way from Gaithersburg,MD and heated up the wheels so much that the tires "slipped" off the centers on some of them. The bad-orders had to be set out for repair at Ivy City.
16-567D3AThank you Northwest.my information on the Former Hammersley units is dated,being over ten years old.did the 5057-5058 ever actually operate in the United States on NREs lease fleet along with the group of Australian Hammersley SD50s they were imported with or were they immediately sent on to Brazil?.
I think that they were shipped to the US about 1994/95, and the two units that went to Brazil went there (after a period of storage at NRE Silvis) about 2004/05. There isn't much information online about their service in between, but they did acquire ditch lights upon arriving the US, so they may have seen some service. There are pictures of them out on the UP in mid 2000. 3 continents is a lot for a locomotive!
ALL:
Chris of C-Vision has a nice video of Minnesota Commercial ALCO locomotives. This DVD covers all locations on the MC.
Ed Burns
NorthWest The 3 Hamersley Iron units built 5/78 at the NSW Goninan plant? They had an additional radiator for the dynamic brake grids to facilitate greater cooling in the Pilbara. 5057 and 5058 are still on ALL in Brazil, and 5059 is on the Minnesota Commercial. Remarkable that all survive. As a note, these quiz threads do work much better and more smoothly if the author knows the answer to their question; there can be debate over the correct answer and other problems if they do not.
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