The SD9043MAC's were built with 710 engines, with provision for re-powering with 265 engines at some future date.
The RailwolfAre there any remaining intact SD90MACs or AC6000CWs operating in the USA with their original 16V265H or 7HDL16 engines, respectively? I know most SD90s were sold, scrapped, or repowered with 710 engines (SD9043MAC), and all the CSX CW60ACs I've seen have been repowered with the GEVO-16. I have never heard either super engine in person. I hear that the 265, being four-stroke, sounds totally unlike anything EMD.
Never saw a 265-H powered SD90MAC but I can attest from experience that the CSX AC6000CW's in as -built (HDL Engine) configured engine were screamers. Probably the twin turbochargers had a lot to do with it...
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
About a half dozen of each, EMD and GE 6000 hp locomotives, were lead and controlling units I've run on a dozen or so trains.
Mixed with other units ( GE Dash-whatever or SD60's/70's) their efficacy didn't display any distinction: train performance arose from hp per ton.
No mechanical, electrical or pneumatic problems happened.
Oil leaks stained the sides of the EMD's. The GE's were cleaner (6000 hp specifically.)
I' liked neither and both....
They ran, pulled and rolled.
Seeing the GPS and the hp being produced on displays did in a sort of "gee whiz' way. distract but watching those screens were like ; "tex-ting while driving ."
Still, save one of each locomotive, if it can be done? I ran them, and l enjoyed them.
Let us try
There's no as built AC6000CW left in the US.
The three pre production models on CSX were repowered with 4400 HP 7FDL16's while the rest recieved 6000 HP 16 cylinder versions of the GEVO engines. Virtually all of them have also seen their Hi-Ad trucks replaced. And the electricals have also been heavily upgraded.
On Union Pacific, they were "de-converted" to match the specifications of the convertibles that never received their planned 6,000 HP powerplants and now have FDL's inside and are essentially equivalent to their many AC4400CW's.
If there are any in as-built condition, they're on the BHP Billiton in Australia. But a quick search just now shows one as scrapped after a wreck, a statement from this forum about them having been repowered (Which I'm skeptical about), and multiple comments that they've been retired and replaced by SD70ACe's (Which is why I'm skeptical that they were repowered just a short time earlier). Appears they were even more dissatisfied with them than Union Pacific and CSX were.
So they don't appear safe and appear to have no future there. I assume their best chance for survival is being exported and rebuilt with new power plants and other upgrades. But rather or not that would be cost effective or even if there would be any interested parties, I don't know. But a few other Australian locomotives have came to the US over the past 15 years so there's a bit of precedence (All five SD50's and a C36-7).
The AC6000CWs on BHP were rebuilt by GE at GE's expense, there were only eight. This happened before everybody gave up on 6000 hp. One was wrecked, and BHP decided to standardize on SD70ACe locomotives. The only 6000 hp. locomotives left are the 600 in China (300 from each builder), and two demonstrators that belong to EMD (EMDX 90 and 91).
Thanks
If they've been rebuilt to similar standards to those on CSX, despite their own dissatisfaction with them, I suspect they'll find new homes.
That SD90MAC count isn't correct. While CPR's (After almost being exported to Saudi Arabia) and those owned outright by UP should be all gone, there should be numerous survivors in one form or another from the leased group on Union Pacific. A few are in Australia for instance, one supposedly was rebuilt into the SD70ACe prototype, there should be a few in the EMLX lease fleet, one is being rebuilt with a Cummins powerplant I read somewhere recently. and I believe another company or two was trying to peddle H engined SD90MAC's a few years ago like PRLX.
Is the SD89MAC still around?
The SD89MAC is now just a frame with a cab and dynamic brake section sitting on it, saw pictures a while ago of it in transit to somewhere.
BHPB's AC6000s did get the GEVO-16 engine like the CSX AC6000s. They have apparently been sold to a US buyer along with the first 13 non-isolated cab ACes as BHPB is looking to fully standardize their fleet on the iso cab ACe.
There's also now more than 600 6000hp units operating in China, they've built many many more since the initial orders (HXN3, HXN3b, HXN5, HXN5b, HXN5c).
ML
Fortesque metals in Australia bought several SD 90,s and had Altoona works convert some to 16-710 engines but they were in such a hurray to get power that Altoona only gave them a lick and a promise and shipped them out where they are in operation today. I think it may have been as many as 4 units.
Thanks, Creepycrank. That makes more sense than the SD40E program listed in the captions.
I also forgot to mention the units acquired by Metrolink in their quest to put the prime movers into F40PHs.
Most CSX 6000 hp engines have been redesignated as CW46's from CW60's
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
NorthWest I also forgot to mention the units acquired by Metrolink in their quest to put the prime movers into F40PHs.
I still get a kick out of a quote from a Metrolink official about that project when asked why they just didn't rebuild the F40PH's in kind a decade ago. He replied with some analogy about how it wouldn't make sense for you to go out and rebuild a pickup truck from 1980, so why should we?
beaulieuMetrolink acquired 4 ex- C&NW SD60s to scavenge diesel engines from, with the idea of putting the 16 cyl. 710G3 engines in F40PH locomotives and putting the 16 cyl. 645E3 engines into the SD60s. The idea was for more power in the passenger locomotives, and use the former SD60s for work train power. Luckily someone came to their senses before the project got too far along.
The idea was sound back when proposed, they just underestimated the engineering involved. Nobody was willing to tackle it for such a small order, for what Metrolink wanted to pay.
I believe the plan though was to get two SD60's up and running with 645's afterwards for work trains, not all four.
Do they still operate the F40PH that was in running condition that they put into operation as-is?
Thanks, all! Sorry about the slip. I guess they were attempting to make them mechanically identical to the F59PHs.
I think that the 800 is still in service, at least it was in March.
And now back to the 6000 HP locomotives...
BaltACD Most CSX 6000 hp engines have been redesignated as CW46's from CW60's
Really?
They spent the money to rebuild most of the fleet with 16 cylinder GEVO engines rated at 6,000 HP and then de-rated them to 4600 HP?
I imagine that is to reduce fuel consumption (akin to CSX modifying its remaining B40-8's to limit them to 2,000 HP)?
Metrolink is the County's Toy Train Set. Just look at the New Jersey Transit Comet Car fiasco. (which were recently towed away)
My train videos - http://www.youtube.com/user/karldotcom
Yes the lone operational F40PH is used. It serves as the spare locomotive, so it is not used every day.
carnej1 BaltACD Most CSX 6000 hp engines have been redesignated as CW46's from CW60's Really? They spent the money to rebuild most of the fleet with 16 cylinder GEVO engines rated at 6,000 HP and then de-rated them to 4600 HP? I imagine that is to reduce fuel consumption (akin to CSX modifying its remaining B40-8's to limit them to 2,000 HP)?
Have never heard a kind word about the B40-8's from any engineer - no matter the configuration.
There is a lot of inaccurate information in this thread regarding the various 6000hp units. Here is the rundown:
BHP Billiton AC6000CW's #6070-6077 have been retired by the railroad. #6070 was scrapped after suffering serious accident damage. All 8 units did recieve GEVO16 prime movers in place of the original HDL diesels.The surviving units have reportedly been sold to an known US buyer.
CP SD90MAC-H's #9300-9303 were retired by the railroad and all 4 units scrapped.
CSX AC6000CW's #600-699 and 5000-5016 all remain on the railroad and in service except for CSX #677 which was recently scrapped on-site following a wreck. The entire fleet has been repowered, with CSX #600-602 recieving 4400hp FDL prime movers. CSX #603-699 and 5000-5016 all recieved the 6000hp GEVO16 prime mover. CSX #600-602 recieved the FDL prime movers due to the fact they those units were preproduction models and there were differences with the cooling system found in those 3 units versus the standard production units. In November 2013 CSX began to derate the 6000hp units down to 4400hp for fuel conservation reasons. Along with derating the units they have also reclassed them from CW60AC to CW46AC or CW46AH; units with the CW46AH have been upgraded with the high tractive effort package while units classed as CW46AC have not recieved this upgrade as of yet. CSX #600-602 are classed as CW44AC, the same classification that CSX gives its standard GE AC4400CW units. CSX #602 is unique in that it retains its GE Hi-AD trucks similar to when it was first delivered. Sister units #600 and 601 both had these trucks swapped out early in life for GE's steerable truck design. The rest of the CSX AC6000CW fleet was delivered straight from the factory with the steerable trucks.
EMD SD90MAC-H II's EMDX 90 and 91- As of early 2014 #91 was confirmed to have been stripped to a nearly bare frame with only the cab and dynamic brake hatch remaining. #90 may have recieved this same treatment as well. Similarly the lone SD89MAC, EMD #92, recieved similar treatment. It was recently shipped from Mid America Car in Kansas City,MO to EMD in McCook,Illinois after having the battery boxes relocated to the opposite side of the frame and possibly other modifications. Apparently these units are going to be rebuilt in one form or another.
GECX AC6000CW's #6000-6002 remain in the test fleet at GE in Erie,PA. A recent photo showed the units stored out of service.
UP GE AC6000CW's #7500-7579- all 80 units remain on UP, however they did opt to repower them with 4400hp FDL prime movers and they were renumbered as UP #6888-6935 and 6937-6968 and reclassed from C60AC to C44/60AC.
UP SD90MAC-H #8500-8521 retired 2006 after having been renumbered as #8911-8931. #8500 remained owned by EMD and was not renumbered and returned to EMD as EMLX #8500. UP owned #8911-8931 outright and stripped certain parts for reuse in the SD9043MAC fleet while the remaining hulks were scrapped. Metro East Industries scrapped a number of the units for UP. The hulk of UP #8921 remained stored behind Jenks Shops in North LIttle Rock,Arkansas as of July 2013 and was listed as part of a group of retired units up for auction in the Fall of 2013. No confirmation as to the outcome of the auction, but the unit was listed as being unable to be moved so scrapping on-site would have been the only viable option. The EMLX #8500 mentioned earlier was returned to EMD along with the 40 Phase II units. It did see lease service, but is thought to have been scrapped at this point.
UP SD90MAC-H II #8522-8561 were retired by UP in late 2005-early 2006 after the lease on this group expired. The units were returned to EMD and were restenciled as EMLX. These 40 units along with the earlier EMLX #8500 saw lease service for several years with all 41 units spending a year on the KCS and smaller groups of 6-8 units each on the Wheeling & Lake Erie and the Buffalo & Pittsburgh RR's. The final lease assignment saw most of the 41 unit group working on Ferromex. Almost all were restenciled PRLX for Progress Rail around that time. The units were shipped to various locations for storage when the lease to Ferromex ended.
of the 41 EMDX/PRLX units, there are only 8 units left on the property at ProgressRail in Mayfield,KY as of April 2014. This is where the majority of the fleet met the torch. Out of those 41 units, 9 units were sold to Fortescue Metals Group (FMG) in Australia. 4 of those units were simply overhauled in-kind with plans to rebuild them to SD9043MAC specs at a later date due to an immeadiate need for power at the time. Those units were FMG #901-904. As of 2013 2 of those units had been repowered, while 2 still had 265H's but were stored. 5 additional units were rebuilt here in the US to SD9043MAC specs for FMG as #905-909. 4 EMD/PRLX units were sold to a group for a proposed repowering project with a 3rd party diesel though the project was eventually canceled. Those units had been stored in Maine and were sold for scrap earlier this year and shipped to a company in Chicago to be dismantled. One final unit was sold and is being used for a rebuild/repowering project for Cummins. The work is being performed by Sygnet Rail Technologies rebuilding the former SD90MAC-H II with a new Cummins QSK95 diesel rated at 4200hp. Cummins has also partnered with the Indiana Railroad who will be hosting the test unit, CECX #1919, for a 1 year test period.
When it comes down to it, there are no 265H powered SD90MAC's left in service.
Bryan Jones
Brooks,KY
In my early days of commuting on the Long Island H--l Road, the old diesel pulled rust bucket cars were horrific, but there were 2 pleasures; standing out on the back platform of the last car, and on the front platform behind the one or two GP38-2's rumbling along east bound every night, an amazingly calming sound. Even better was the sound - and sight of the FL9AC's for several years on the PJ line. Still can't believe they were scrapped.
Thank you, Bryan Jones, for that detailed rundown.
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
Going the other way, what would have to be done to upgrade from a 16- 710 4300 to prime move to a 6000 HP prime mover. I knpow the SD8043MAC were set up for this. Would there be any external diffences?
Thanks, Bryan Jones.
Caldreamer, the only exterior difference would be a different long hood design above the prime mover, with 45 degree sides and two stacks.
If that...
Since the conversion never happened, we really don't know if the hood design around the engine compartment would've been modified with 45 degree sides during the process.
There doesn't seem an obvious reason why it would've had to match factory built H engined units, since there would seem to be actually more room inside if left squared off. Although EMD must've had their reasons for it which elude me as an outside observer, since angled sides would seem to be more expensive.
I seem to recall something different between 710 and H engine equipped units with the air reservoirs as well?
If I remeber correctly the 265-H engine is actually a little shorter than the 710's. I agree EMD must have had there reasons for the angled roof over the engine, but I do not know what it was.
GDRMCoUh, pretty sure the FMG SD90-Hs are still in operation. The latest issues of Western Rails have photos of these units running.
Only 4 of the FMG units were delivered as 265H powered units, 901-904. #902 and 904 were repowered with 16-710's within a year of delivery. #901 and 903 have recently recieved 16-710's. FMG #905-909 recieved the 16-710's when rebuilt here in the US and never operated in Australia as 265H powered units. All are classed as SD9043MAC.
FMG has also just purchased 8 additional units from EMD/Progress Rail. The units shipped out of Progress Rail in Mayfield,KY last week. All 8 retain the 6000hp 265H prime mover. These will recieve 16-710's rated at 4300hp at some point once they arrive in Australia, completing to SD9043MAC specs.
With this order from FMG there will be no more than 4 or 5 of these former UP SD90MAC-H's left at Progress Rail.
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