Hello everybody,
I think this is a great idea, two 1800 hp diesels to make up a large Genset locomotive. It makes this into a engine that is quite versatile, yet also able to save on Fuel. I remember coming across a web page that dealt with putting two engines into the GO commuter locomotives. The thinking was to use the turbine engines out of the US army tank. This two would have made a locomotive with more then 3000 hp. What do you think of this Genset?
Here is a picture : http://www.nationalrailway.com/newloco.asp
Frank
"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
The new dual power (Diesel/straight electric via pantograph) locomotives being built for New Jersey Transit have a similiar setup in diesel mode with 2 Cat gensets for power.
The NRE unit is interesting as it's being marketed as a "jack of all trades",able to go every job on the railroad (save for maybe that done by new AC traction road units)..
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
I don't know that I see a lot of value in this for the Class 1s. Why would they want a 3600HP unit at all?
However, some of the regionals and Class 2/3s might have an interest. I'm thinking railroads like CORP and P&W in Oregon that move some fairly long trains with occasionally really bad grades and yet don't always need that power.
It's irrational for me to have a favorite locomotive company, I mean who really cares unless you work for them, but I'd rather see business like this go to EMD/Progressive, but eh, new locos and loco manufacturers is a good thing all around.
The class-1's are not all mainlines...they have branches and whatnot just like the regionals. So why not?
Odie The class-1's are not all mainlines...they have branches and whatnot just like the regionals. So why not?
Except in The Peoples Republic of California where the taxpayers will buy it for them, All the class 1's have old units that cost them nothing or they can lease units to work the branches. They still can't get rid of those old GP7's that are only used seasonally on branches. Nobody has discussed the price of this thing yet either.
I totally agree with this. Also the regional road - GEXR which belongs to Railamerica - could probably use some of these locmotives. They are running with a couple of SD40-2's but some times they ad a GP9 or GP38 to pull their biggest freights. Also how often do we see SD40-2's doing yard work now?
It seems that these Gensets have created a lot of smaller locomotive manufacturers, but in my opinion it is great. The more variety on the rails the better.
As was said, the class 1s have stacks and stacks and stacks of SD40-2s, GP40s etc and can just drop in an ECO engine. They've made it clear with their dollars that they want 4000+HP engines and they want 2000HP engines.
Remember, most of these "green" gensets have been rebuilt with other people's money, OPM. A railroad exists to make money and the margins are thin. If someone comes along and offers to pay to rebuild your SD40, SD40-2, SD45, C30-7, GG-1, et. al. with the latest and greatest genset technology AND you receive the necessary tax credits to offset the increased property value of your rebuilt machine then sit back and enjoy the higher reliability and lower fuel consumption.
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NRE is obviously testing the waters with this design, the only other thing that comes close is Progress Rail's PR43C. As earlier postings have suggested, this design might be suitable for regionals and larger shortlines that handle bulk traffic such as unit coal or grain on an infrequent or irregular basis. It might be a good replacement for slug sets in road service.
D.Carleton Remember, most of these "green" gensets have been rebuilt with other people's money, OPM. A railroad exists to make money and the margins are thin. If someone comes along and offers to pay to rebuild your SD40, SD40-2, SD45, C30-7, GG-1, et. al. with the latest and greatest genset technology AND you receive the necessary tax credits to offset the increased property value of your rebuilt machine then sit back and enjoy the higher reliability and lower fuel consumption.
Since when did the gensets prove to be more reliable than 40 year old GP38's and GP/SD 40"s?
Not that they are More Reliable it is Just the EPA and CARB and other Enviromental BOARDS have decided that if your exhaust is to dirty you get the HELL fined out of your Company and therefore your CEO doesn't get his or her NEW Rolls this Year. So they Replace a Bunch of Ultra Reliable Engines with Engines that in OTR secrvice and that is were Most of the Genset Prime Movers are coming from that barely can last 1/8 the time Between Failures now give you 3 of them and Pray like Hell they can make 92 days between Failures. Most of the time of these Engines used are 04 EGR or 07 DPF equipped engines and they are BAD as hell.
CARB the board that wants the Very Gensets is now wanting to get RID of DPF's in OTR trucks why they can cause Fires in OTR trucks when they overheat well DUH something that gets to 1400 degrees under the bunk normally mounted by the Slip-joint of the Drive Shaft that slings Grease onto the DPF no wonder.
Unfortunately, a lot of these older engines aren't exactly ultra-reliable anymore. Many are just plain tired and beat.
Time for the next generation of yard power.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Who really cares about OTR trucks?
Because all these Genset Locos use there ENGINES as what Powers them. NRE uses the Cummins ISX for power decent Motor if you can keep the EGR valve from Melting. Brrokville by using CATS is going to be using ACERT tech HAVE fun with those POS motors even my local company that was a DIEHARD kitty Cat Company told CAT to get those POS and went Cummins.
Ed is right about conventional (?) gensets using truck engines but in this case the 1800 hp engines are the same as used in marine and stationary generators and probably pretty expensive due to low production volume. Besides the complication of voltage matching and load sharing at higher than 1800 hp they have to drag all that along if they use the locomotive for hump service where they could easily overload the traction motors. It appears to be able to do all trades but a master of none. I think the the class one's will be in a race for second place to try this one out. The old weary GP38,s are simple and well known and can be freshened up for a lot less expense.
creepycrank I think the the class one's will be in a race for second place to try this one out. The old weary GP38,s are simple and well known and can be freshened up for a lot less expense.
I think the the class one's will be in a race for second place to try this one out. The old weary GP38,s are simple and well known and can be freshened up for a lot less expense.
Yeah, but for how long? The 38s have served well, but it is time to develop a successor.
zugmann creepycrank: I think the the class one's will be in a race for second place to try this one out. The old weary GP38,s are simple and well known and can be freshened up for a lot less expense. Yeah, but for how long? The 38s have served well, but it is time to develop a successor.
creepycrank: I think the the class one's will be in a race for second place to try this one out. The old weary GP38,s are simple and well known and can be freshened up for a lot less expense.
About as long as the GP7's that are out there. There is a successor, the GP22ECO which uses most of the donor GP38. Like the GP7 the GP38 is the Irish hammer of locomotives.
There's also baldwin switchers working out there. Just a matter of how much you want to spend on the locomotive and how much you want to spend (money and time) maintaining it. No GP7s on the roster where I'm at. and even the straight 38s are long gone. Now we have some that have been rebuilt multiple times, but pretty soon we go from an Irish hammer to my grandfather's ax.
Nothing lasts forever. Maybe the gensets are not in the same league as the 38s yet (even though there are a lot of them out there), it will take a few years for them to be the GP38s of their time.
I just chuckle when I see people saying how great those old engines are. Sure, when they are working and when they get adequate maintenance time. But then there's the real world...
Whether you like or not, the EPA and various state clean-air regulations come into play here. Notice that a lot of the older power is migrating out of California and Texas and it is a matter of time before it starts happening in other urban areas that have trouble meeting clean-air standards.
zugmann There's also baldwin switchers working out there. Just a matter of how much you want to spend on the locomotive and how much you want to spend (money and time) maintaining it. No GP7s on the roster where I'm at. and even the straight 38s are long gone. Now we have some that have been rebuilt multiple times, but pretty soon we go from an Irish hammer to my grandfather's ax. Nothing lasts forever. Maybe the gensets are not in the same league as the 38s yet (even though there are a lot of them out there), it will take a few years for them to be the GP38s of their time. I just chuckle when I see people saying how great those old engines are. Sure, when they are working and when they get adequate maintenance time. But then there's the real world...
This doesn't really explain why you would pick this genset over an ECO.
Hell, I'm not sure I understand why progress is continuing with the PR34 unit. I have to believe that the SD32ECO is a more cost effective rebuild. I'd also have to believe that the TCO is better.
YoHo1975 This doesn't really explain why you would pick this genset over an ECO. Hell, I'm not sure I understand why progress is continuing with the PR34 unit. I have to believe that the SD32ECO is a more cost effective rebuild. I'd also have to believe that the TCO is better.
Not picking one or the other, just addressing the comments about the tried and true gp38s that some believe are immortal.
The Larger companies for rebuilds are using MTU diesels there is a little issue with them. They are Shipboard Engines primaraly think Crab boats in the Bering Sea. They run at twice the Speed of a 645 series so if you want to use them with the Stock Alternator on them well you better put in a 2/1 reduction ger in them and those fail. Want to see how unreliable a MTU motor can be Watch the Deadliest Catch were the Cornialla Marie lost 2 of his engines in less than a week. The Late Phil Harris ran MTU's on his boat and they were always breaking down.
zugmann YoHo1975: This doesn't really explain why you would pick this genset over an ECO. Hell, I'm not sure I understand why progress is continuing with the PR34 unit. I have to believe that the SD32ECO is a more cost effective rebuild. I'd also have to believe that the TCO is better. Not picking one or the other, just addressing the comments about the tried and true gp38s that some believe are immortal.
YoHo1975: This doesn't really explain why you would pick this genset over an ECO. Hell, I'm not sure I understand why progress is continuing with the PR34 unit. I have to believe that the SD32ECO is a more cost effective rebuild. I'd also have to believe that the TCO is better.
With a little welding rod and a machine shop nearby they are immortal. And in a joint Progress Rail / EMD press release they announced tier 2 kits for 645's including blower engines for use in California and Texas.
Look up Doucet's Marine Service. Inc. at emdservice.com for some great photos of how its done.
Link to the announcement? I found a reference to tier 2 kits for 645E engines, but it was in the Marine section of a power point.
Yes but if there is a demand they can run the EPA locomotive tests on the same engines. Its the loading schedule that makes the difference.
To swing this back to gensets, most gensets are built on remanufactured trucks, traction motors and frames from a donor locomotive. Yet another player in this market reuses the A10 alternator but has to equip the new engine with a new 2 to 1 speed reducer gear and the A10 since its a single bearing unit requires a pedestal bearing to support and position the front end. Looking at the photo of this I think they but in a cardan shaft so that they wouldn't have an even bigger problem aligning all this. With all that it should be easier to go with the 22ECO.
Gentlemen,
thank you for all the replies. This is a very informative debate, and very enjoyable to read.
Thank you
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