The MBTA retired the last of it's F rebuilds long ago, IIRC the units (F10's) were all gone by the mid to late 80's...
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
Looking at another thread, it appears the last of the NH FL's has bit the dust. Are there any rebuilt cab units left on MBTA or MARC? They seem to be the last of the rebuilt units?
zardoz Sorry but how hard is correct spelling and punctuation? Don't want to take offence and sound like the grammar police but spelling and punctuation is easy, even the dim kids at my school got it.
Sorry but how hard is correct spelling and punctuation? Don't want to take offence and sound like the grammar police but spelling and punctuation is easy, even the dim kids at my school got it.
You spelled offense wrong. One who "takes offense" is the one being offended, not the other way around. The comma after "easy" should be a period.
Where have I put "where's" in that post, and I had used a comma once already in the sentence, didnt need one between police and but.
ML
GDRMCo Sorry but how hard is correct spelling and punctuation? Don't want to take offence and sound like the grammar police but spelling and punctuation is easy, even the dim kids at my school got it. OT- Odd theres all that computer script in the post, anyone know how to remove it?
OT- Odd theres all that computer script in the post, anyone know how to remove it?
Those who live in glass houses.....
Paul MilenkovicA common type of roof top mod seems to be a "winterization hatch." Can anyone tell me what that does and how it works? My guess is it takes hot exhaust air from a cooling fan and recirculates it through some part of the locomotive you want to keep from freezing, but there may be a little more to it and that.
A common type of roof top mod seems to be a "winterization hatch." Can anyone tell me what that does and how it works? My guess is it takes hot exhaust air from a cooling fan and recirculates it through some part of the locomotive you want to keep from freezing, but there may be a little more to it and that.
That's actually pretty close to the mark - the hatch includes a damper to direct the hot air outwards during the summer.
A good explanation took place in the 3 part series on E-units in last fall's Railfan & Railroad.
pajrrThe new Brookville locomotives on Metro-North are BL20GH, 2000 hp roadswitchers
YES the BL20GH's that's it! Thanks!
Looks like maby DNBK enhancements on the top of that F? maby a new cooling system?
The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
Alan Robinson The original F units (and E units for that matter) were almost all purchased by major railroads in the late forties and fifties. There were good reasons for this. The new road diesels were expensive and the majors were the ones with the money and cash flow to pay for them. Diesel technology developed pretty fast during those early years and by the time the F9 and E8 came along these units were quite efficient at moving freight and passengers in over the road operations. But they made horrible switchers due to the poor visibility, especially to the rear. Even an A-B-B-A lashup was a pain for switching operations but it did help avoid the hassle of turning the power at the end of a run. But once the road switcher design came into fashion the railroads had a locomotive that could do it all, freight, passenger and switching. It was not easy to convert an E or F unit into a road switcher because the body structure that shrouded the internal components provided structural support, unlike the heavy frame of a road switcher. Only the Santa Fe and a very few other roads tried it. So, as these units aged they weren't very useful to move down to branchline service because they made such problematic switchers. Similarly, selling the units to short lines or branch lines had limited appeal. By the time these lines could afford diesels (even used ones) they wanted road switchers or units like GE's 44 tonner rather than old F units from the major roads. Thus, trade-in programs became immensely popular. The GP7 was essentially the guts of an F7 in a roadswitcher car body as was the GP9 the guts of an F9 in a similar body. So it was no trouble for GM to take these units as trade-ins, overhaul the prime mover, electrical gear, trucks and traction motors and end up with essentially a new much more useful unit at a fraction of the cost of a conventional new unit. Will we ever see similar "covered wagon" designs regain popularity? Only in long haul passenger or freight service and then the cowl will probably be non structural as in the F40 unit and its derivatives, or the new units built for Amtrak. Making the cowl nonstructural simply makes maintenance so much easier that there are few reasons not to build units that way. Still, there is something about a brace of covered wagons in a snappy paint job that the newer units just can't match in appearance, especially when pulling a string of lightweight cars from the age of the streamliners. Such beautiful trains. The new Superliners pale in comparison.
The original F units (and E units for that matter) were almost all purchased by major railroads in the late forties and fifties. There were good reasons for this. The new road diesels were expensive and the majors were the ones with the money and cash flow to pay for them. Diesel technology developed pretty fast during those early years and by the time the F9 and E8 came along these units were quite efficient at moving freight and passengers in over the road operations. But they made horrible switchers due to the poor visibility, especially to the rear. Even an A-B-B-A lashup was a pain for switching operations but it did help avoid the hassle of turning the power at the end of a run. But once the road switcher design came into fashion the railroads had a locomotive that could do it all, freight, passenger and switching.
It was not easy to convert an E or F unit into a road switcher because the body structure that shrouded the internal components provided structural support, unlike the heavy frame of a road switcher. Only the Santa Fe and a very few other roads tried it. So, as these units aged they weren't very useful to move down to branchline service because they made such problematic switchers. Similarly, selling the units to short lines or branch lines had limited appeal. By the time these lines could afford diesels (even used ones) they wanted road switchers or units like GE's 44 tonner rather than old F units from the major roads.
Thus, trade-in programs became immensely popular. The GP7 was essentially the guts of an F7 in a roadswitcher car body as was the GP9 the guts of an F9 in a similar body. So it was no trouble for GM to take these units as trade-ins, overhaul the prime mover, electrical gear, trucks and traction motors and end up with essentially a new much more useful unit at a fraction of the cost of a conventional new unit.
Will we ever see similar "covered wagon" designs regain popularity? Only in long haul passenger or freight service and then the cowl will probably be non structural as in the F40 unit and its derivatives, or the new units built for Amtrak. Making the cowl nonstructural simply makes maintenance so much easier that there are few reasons not to build units that way.
Still, there is something about a brace of covered wagons in a snappy paint job that the newer units just can't match in appearance, especially when pulling a string of lightweight cars from the age of the streamliners. Such beautiful trains. The new Superliners pale in comparison.
Actually the newest passenger diesel designs use a Monocoque design instead of a cowled roadswitcher frame and the body is partially loadbearing which makes for a lighter unit. The newly designed GE Evolution series passenger locomotive will use this as do the MPI MPexpress units and the most recent diesels built for NJ transit and Metra...
With regards to that photo, it looks like that F-unit was heavily modded with rooftop gadgets.
Can you tell us what roof top hardware is on that photo?
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Cape May Seashore Lines, operator of the former Pennsylvania-Reading
Seashore Lines 'Cape May Branch' in Cape May County, NJ has on lease
from The United Railroad Historical Society, two ex- C&NW F7s. They
were painted and correctly numbered to resemble Lehigh Valley units.
They alternate with an original PRR GP9, that has been perfectly
restored to its 'as delivered' condition. It is still numbered 7000, the same
number it had on 'day one' with the Pennsylvania Railroad. Throughout its life, the number has
remained 7000.
I'm surprised the Reading Technical & Historical Society hasn't 'jumped in' with their original,
mint condition Reading FP7s. They also have one awaiting (?) restoration.
jckid1934
I would have to try and find the info for these pics to give an exact date, but it was about a year and a half ago, that I spotted this F unit ( 9, I believe). It was stopped just outside of Moscow, ID almost on the Washington border.
Needless to say the Black Widow paint caught my eye, it has MRLX reporting marks, which as I recall, are for Rail America (Not Montana Rail Link). When I did some research, I found that this was an ex-Via Rail unit, if my memory still serves me well. Still working in Revenue service, earning her keep.
Edit: It is a Mid America Rail Car Leasing unit, not Rail America. I also was able find a little more info, this unit was originally built for CN, then went to Via.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
I would not call Norfolk Southern business trains tourist operations, and of course NS has its F-units (A-B-B-A) for such trains. They run pretty regularly.
In a similar vein, there is an IC (still painted IC, I think, not CN) E-8 that pulls business trains.
Goderich-Exeter used to run ex-CN FP9A's in service with their geeps but the F units are out of commission right now. This is according the Canadian railfans bible, the Canadian Trackside Guide 2009. The F's, nos. 1400 and 1401, were originally brought to the GEXR to power the snowploughs. The Locomotive special issue of 2007 covered their snowplough operation.
One that at last report still is: The Gettysburg Northern out of Gettysburg, Pa. with two F-units.
The Southern RR of NJ has a couple of F units that would occasionally make the trip from Salem to Swedesboro NJ. Don't know if they've run recently - might just be sitting in the weeds in Salem.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Thanks for the info. I should have known that...
Escapes me too, but the FL9s were phased out by the dual service Genesis units.
CSSHEGEWISCH Metro-North may have some FL9's and ex-C&NW F7A's in service on some branches on the New Haven line and as relief power.
Metro-North may have some FL9's and ex-C&NW F7A's in service on some branches on the New Haven line and as relief power.
Aren't the FL9's getting phased out by those new locomotives that look like a cross between an SD45, and a GP40? Ummmmmm..... Ohhhh What are thay called.... ummm... Built by Brookville Equipment Corporaton... Well, I can't think of the name... BL102 maby...no defanatley not that. That's the crummy locomotive nobody lliked before the Geep. Well I can't think of it.
bubbajustin carnej1 mudchicken Iowa Northern has 2 F40's in almost every day use. But does an F40PH count as an "F unit"? After all it's a Cowled roadswitcher frame not a "covered wagon"... I would count that as an F. A bit boxeir on the front end, but that's ok. I here that it is real hard to see backward out of the locomotives. Especially with 2 or three cabless booster's trailing behind.
carnej1 mudchicken Iowa Northern has 2 F40's in almost every day use. But does an F40PH count as an "F unit"? After all it's a Cowled roadswitcher frame not a "covered wagon"...
mudchicken Iowa Northern has 2 F40's in almost every day use.
Iowa Northern has 2 F40's in almost every day use.
But does an F40PH count as an "F unit"? After all it's a Cowled roadswitcher frame not a "covered wagon"...
Not a problem with an F40 as there are no B units, it's a GP40-2 wearing a streamlined cowl after all...
The Escanaba and Lake Superior still uses an F unit in freight service. It hasn't been repainted from its WSOR colors.
http://tr.youtube.com/watch?v=iMCFnUBBbcY
upjakeThat is what makes it so nice that these tourist trains and museums have repainted and preserved some F units. For me and I would bet even many non-train fans the 'covered wagons' bring up fond memories of the past. The 'RJ Corman' FP7s are great. Oh just one other question. As railroads bumped up to newer diesels in the 60s, was it ever sometimes common for some Fs to be kept for yard switching or other light work?
What to do with its old F units led Santa Fe to begin rebuilding them into CF7's beginning with 2649 in 1970. Santa Fe was in an unusual situation since its road fleet had a higher percentage of F units than most other Class 1's and trading them in on GP38's to work local freights was not viewed at the time as a smart financial move.
LTV has used some of it's former Erie Mining F9's in recent years on occassionaly runs hauling "fines" (broken taconite pellets), most recently in 2008 I believe, but they haven't been used in everyday service since earlier this decade.
One thing to recall is that GM-EMD starting in maybe the late fifties allowed railroads to "trade in" their older engines as part of the deal in getting new ones, so many first generation FT's and F's were traded in on new GP's with trucks and some other parts being reused. In the sixties GE would take any engine in trade (whether they could use the parts or not) which helped them get business.
bubbajustinWell, I know there are some grain elavators that use CF7'S, but not any railroads that use actuall F7's. It really suprised me that the class1's got rid of there F's it seems like the short line and reginols would get rid of them first. Cause thay have lot's of switching to do. But thay did. Hay, RJ Coreman uses 2 F's (7's I think) Also NS uses 2 F's of some sort...
Of course the class one's retired their F units many years before you were born!
The short lines and regionals that rostered F units got them secondhand from the Class 1's so I don't understand your posting ...
Several of the bigger railroads roster small numbers of rebuilt F units for hauling business and special event trains..
GDRMCoIt could, but then again it depends on what side of the ditch you're from.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
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