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Fs
Posted by upjake on Friday, May 15, 2009 4:05 AM
Are there any railroads that still utilize F7s or F3s besides tourist train operations?
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, May 15, 2009 7:07 AM

Peoria & Western has some ex-CN FP9's that it uses in freight service.  Metro-North may have some FL9's and ex-C&NW F7A's in service on some branches on the New Haven line and as relief power.

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Posted by MILW205 on Friday, May 15, 2009 9:40 AM

Carolina Southern has a couple -- an A and a B, the latter of which is ex-CN.  Also a few A's in storage.

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Posted by bubbajustin on Saturday, May 16, 2009 9:35 AM
Well, I know there are some grain elavators that use CF7'S, but not any railroads that use actuall F7's. It really suprised me that the class1's got rid of there F's it seems like the short line and reginols would get rid of them first. Cause thay have lot's of switching to do. But thay did. Hay, RJ Coreman uses 2 F's (7's I think) Also NS uses 2 F's of some sort...

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Posted by GDRMCo on Saturday, May 16, 2009 11:36 AM

  Normal 0 false false false EN-AU X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}

Well I know there are some grain elevators that use CF7's, but not any railroads that use actual F7's. It really surprised me that the Class 1's got rid of their F's it seems like the short lines and regionals would get rid of them first. Cause they have lots of switching to do. But they did. Hay, RJ Corman uses 2 F's (7's I think) Also NS uses 2 F's of some sort...

 Sorry but how hard is correct spelling and punctuation? Don't want to take offence and sound like the grammar police but spelling and punctuation is easy, even the dim kids at my school got it.

 

OT- Odd theres all that computer script in the post, anyone know how to remove it?

ML

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, May 16, 2009 12:21 PM

GDRMCo

  Normal 0 false false false EN-AU X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;}

Well I know there are some grain elevators that use CF7's, but not any railroads that use actual F7's. It really surprised me that the Class 1's got rid of their F's it seems like the short lines and regionals would get rid of them first. Cause they have lots of switching to do. But they did. Hay, RJ Corman uses 2 F's (7's I think) Also NS uses 2 F's of some sort...

 Sorry but how hard is correct spelling and punctuation? Don't want to take offence and sound like the grammar police but spelling and punctuation is easy, even the dim kids at my school got it.

 

OT- Odd theres all that computer script in the post, anyone know how to remove it?

You missed one--it should be "Hey, RJ Corman...." (unless he is speaking of fodder, as in "hay, fodder, straw's cheaper").

Also, the last line I quoted is better this way--"Odd, there's all that computer script in the post; does anyone know how to remove it?"

I'm sorry, but I have no idea as to how to remove it, so I cannot help you there.

Yes, spelling and punctuation are easy when you are familiar with good writing.

Johnny

Johnny

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Posted by GDRMCo on Saturday, May 16, 2009 1:03 PM

Didn't miss it the first time but I accidentally hit back on the browser and lost the changes. When I did the reply again I missed it, woops.

ML

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, May 16, 2009 2:55 PM

GDRMCo

 

Didn't miss it the first time but I accidentally hit back on the browser and lost the changes. When I did the reply again I missed it, woops.

   Well, if we're playing grammar one-upmanship, shouldn't the last word be "oops" ? Disapprove

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Posted by GDRMCo on Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:38 AM
It could, but then again it depends on what side of the ditch you're from.

ML

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Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, May 17, 2009 12:46 PM

Iowa Northern has 2 F40's in almost every day use.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, May 17, 2009 1:59 PM

GDRMCo
It could, but then again it depends on what side of the ditch you're from.

Fair enough.  I've seen it written as whoops as well.  I apologize for being cranky about the situation.

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Posted by carnej1 on Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:55 PM

bubbajustin
Well, I know there are some grain elavators that use CF7'S, but not any railroads that use actuall F7's. It really suprised me that the class1's got rid of there F's it seems like the short line and reginols would get rid of them first. Cause thay have lot's of switching to do. But thay did. Hay, RJ Coreman uses 2 F's (7's I think) Also NS uses 2 F's of some sort...

 

 Of course the class one's retired their F units many years before you were born!

The short lines and regionals that rostered F units got them secondhand from the Class 1's so I don't understand your posting ...

 Several of the bigger railroads roster small numbers of rebuilt F units for hauling business and special event trains..

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Posted by carnej1 on Sunday, May 17, 2009 4:58 PM

mudchicken

Iowa Northern has 2 F40's in almost every day use.

But does an F40PH count as an "F unit"? After all it's a Cowled roadswitcher frame not a "covered wagon"...

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Posted by wjstix on Sunday, May 17, 2009 5:15 PM

LTV has used some of it's former Erie Mining F9's in recent years on occassionaly runs hauling "fines" (broken taconite pellets), most recently in 2008 I believe, but they haven't been used in everyday service since earlier this decade.

One thing to recall is that GM-EMD starting in maybe the late fifties allowed railroads to "trade in" their older engines as part of the deal in getting new ones, so many first generation FT's and F's were traded in on new GP's with trucks and some other parts being reused. In the sixties GE would take any engine in trade (whether they could use the parts or not) which helped them get business.

Stix
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Posted by bubbajustin on Sunday, May 17, 2009 7:03 PM

carnej1

mudchicken

Iowa Northern has 2 F40's in almost every day use.

But does an F40PH count as an "F unit"? After all it's a Cowled roadswitcher frame not a "covered wagon"...

I would count that as an F. A bit boxeir on the front end, but that's ok. I here that it is real hard to see backward out of the locomotives. Especially with 2 or three cabless booster's trailing behind.

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Posted by upjake on Sunday, May 17, 2009 9:48 PM
That is what makes it so nice that these tourist trains and museums have repainted and preserved some F units. For me and I would bet even many non-train fans the 'covered wagons' bring up fond memories of the past. The 'RJ Corman' FP7s are great. Oh just one other question. As railroads bumped up to newer diesels in the 60s, was it ever sometimes common for some Fs to be kept for yard switching or other light work?
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, May 18, 2009 6:39 AM

upjake
That is what makes it so nice that these tourist trains and museums have repainted and preserved some F units. For me and I would bet even many non-train fans the 'covered wagons' bring up fond memories of the past. The 'RJ Corman' FP7s are great. Oh just one other question. As railroads bumped up to newer diesels in the 60s, was it ever sometimes common for some Fs to be kept for yard switching or other light work?

What to do with its old F units led Santa Fe to begin rebuilding them into CF7's beginning with 2649 in 1970.  Santa Fe was in an unusual situation since its road fleet had a higher percentage of F units than most other Class 1's and trading them in on GP38's to work local freights was not viewed at the time as a smart financial move. 

 

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by AlienKing on Monday, May 18, 2009 8:02 AM

The Escanaba and Lake Superior still uses an F unit in freight service. It hasn't been repainted from its WSOR colors.

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Posted by carnej1 on Monday, May 18, 2009 11:58 AM

bubbajustin

carnej1

mudchicken

Iowa Northern has 2 F40's in almost every day use.

But does an F40PH count as an "F unit"? After all it's a Cowled roadswitcher frame not a "covered wagon"...

I would count that as an F. A bit boxeir on the front end, but that's ok. I here that it is real hard to see backward out of the locomotives. Especially with 2 or three cabless booster's trailing behind.

 Not a problem with an F40 as there are no B units, it's a GP40-2 wearing a streamlined cowl after all...

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Posted by bubbajustin on Monday, May 18, 2009 4:20 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH

  Metro-North may have some FL9's and ex-C&NW F7A's in service on some branches on the New Haven line and as relief power.

Aren't the FL9's getting phased out by those new locomotives that look like a cross between an SD45, and a GP40? Ummmmmm..... Ohhhh What are thay called.... ummm... Built by Brookville Equipment Corporaton... Well, I can't think of the name... BL102 maby...no defanatley not that. That's the crummy locomotive nobody lliked before the Geep. Well I can't think of it.Grumpy 

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Posted by trainfan1221 on Monday, May 18, 2009 7:55 PM

 Escapes me too, but the FL9s were phased out by the dual service Genesis units.

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Posted by pajrr on Tuesday, May 19, 2009 4:07 AM
The new Brookville locomotives on Metro-North are BL20GH, 2000 hp roadswitchers
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Posted by trainfan1221 on Friday, May 22, 2009 4:06 PM

Thanks for the info.  I should have known that...

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Posted by oltmannd on Friday, May 22, 2009 9:09 PM

The Southern RR of NJ has a couple of F units that would occasionally make the trip from Salem to Swedesboro NJ.  Don't know if they've run recently - might just be sitting in the weeds in Salem.

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Posted by LNER4472 on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:37 PM

 One that at last report still is:  The Gettysburg Northern out of Gettysburg, Pa. with two F-units.

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Posted by g&gfan on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:02 PM

Goderich-Exeter used to run ex-CN FP9A's in service with their geeps but the F units are out of commission right now. This is according the Canadian railfans bible, the Canadian Trackside Guide 2009. The F's, nos. 1400 and 1401, were originally brought to the GEXR to power the snowploughs. The Locomotive special issue of 2007 covered their snowplough operation.  

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Posted by dredmann on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:26 PM

I would not call Norfolk Southern business trains tourist operations, and of course NS has its F-units (A-B-B-A) for such trains. They run pretty regularly.

 

In a similar vein, there is an IC (still painted IC, I think, not CN) E-8 that pulls business trains.

 

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Posted by Alan Robinson on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:04 PM

The original F units (and E units for that matter) were almost all purchased by major railroads in the late forties and fifties. There were good reasons for this. The new road diesels were expensive and the majors were the ones with the money and cash flow to pay for them. Diesel technology developed pretty fast during those early years and by the time the F9 and E8 came along these units were quite efficient at moving freight and passengers in over the road operations. But they made horrible switchers due to the poor visibility, especially to the rear. Even an A-B-B-A lashup was a pain for switching operations but it did help avoid the hassle of turning the power at the end of a run. But once the road switcher design came into fashion the railroads had a locomotive that could do it all, freight, passenger and switching.

It was not easy to convert an E or F unit into a road switcher because the body structure that shrouded the internal components provided structural support, unlike the heavy frame of a road switcher. Only the Santa Fe and a very few other roads tried it. So, as these units aged they weren't very useful to move down to branchline service because they made such problematic switchers. Similarly, selling the units to short lines or branch lines had limited appeal. By the time these lines could afford diesels (even used ones) they wanted road switchers or units like GE's 44 tonner rather than old F units from the major roads.

Thus, trade-in programs became immensely popular. The GP7 was essentially the guts of an F7 in a roadswitcher car body as was the GP9 the guts of an F9 in a similar body. So it was no trouble for GM to take these units as trade-ins, overhaul the prime mover, electrical gear, trucks and traction motors and end up with essentially a new much more useful unit at a fraction of the cost of a conventional new unit.

Will we ever see similar "covered wagon" designs regain popularity? Only in long haul passenger or freight service and then the cowl will probably be non structural as in the F40 unit and its derivatives, or the new units built for Amtrak. Making the cowl nonstructural simply makes maintenance so much easier that there are few reasons not to build units that way.

Still, there is something about a brace of covered wagons in a snappy paint job that the newer units just can't match in appearance, especially when pulling a string of lightweight cars from the age of the streamliners. Such beautiful trains. The new Superliners pale in comparison.

Alan Robinson Asheville, North Carolina
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Posted by challenger3980 on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:45 PM

   I would have to try and find the info for these pics to give an exact date, but it was about a year and a half ago, that I spotted this F unit ( 9, I believe). It was stopped just outside of Moscow, ID almost on the Washington border.

   Needless to say the Black Widow paint caught my eye, it has MRLX reporting marks, which as I recall, are for Rail America (Not Montana Rail Link). When I did some research, I found that this was an ex-Via Rail unit, if my memory still serves me well. Still working in Revenue service, earning her keep.

   Edit: It is a Mid America Rail Car Leasing unit, not Rail America. I also was able find a little more info, this unit was originally built for CN, then went to Via.


Doug

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Posted by Tom Moran on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 1:07 AM

Cape May Seashore Lines, operator of the former Pennsylvania-Reading

Seashore Lines 'Cape May Branch' in Cape May County, NJ has on lease

from The United Railroad Historical Society, two ex- C&NW F7s. They

were painted and correctly numbered to resemble Lehigh Valley units.

They alternate with an original PRR GP9, that has been perfectly

restored to its 'as delivered' condition. It is still numbered 7000, the same

number it had on 'day one' with the Pennsylvania Railroad. Throughout its life, the number has

remained 7000.

I'm surprised the Reading Technical & Historical Society hasn't 'jumped in' with their original,

mint condition Reading FP7s. They also have one awaiting (?) restoration.

jckid1934

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