65 BNSF Engines nose to tail - on the way to refit or retirement?

[Leo_Ames]

What sort of cannibalization involves cutting into the engine block?

Or are you interpreting cut, as in the 12-645 engine block itself is absent from these locomotives? I could see that for 2 or 3, but not 14 unless they have some significant use outside of locomotives for them.

Unless something changed fairly recently, California for one indeed mandates that older locomotives be crippled by their engine blocks being rendered inoperable when state grant money is invested into their replacement with more emission friendly motive power. It took a fair bit of wrangling by the M&ET for instance to save their replaced 70 tonners from this requirement on historic grounds, although I imagine their pair of retired SW1500's had to be crippled. 

I don't really know, hence the questions. You very well may be correct, I'm just trying to understand. 

[NorthWest]

I thought they may have simply removed the block, but pictures show that it is still in place on some of the units. One unit had its cab stripped, but the others seem to be intact. The curious thing is that they don't have much graffiti on them, and I thought that the 645s had been removed from California a while ago. It also doesn't make sense that UP didn't sacrafice something less valuable.

Strange.

 

[traisessive1]

Those SD60's and Dash 8's that are now on CN are absolute junk. No one should have to use those things. On top of that, the SD60's and C40-8's have no business being anywhere that requires use of the heater as the heater is useless and the unit's are essentially non insulated. 

[Leo_Ames]

For those curious, those crippled UP MP15's went for much more than scrap value. $75-115k were the going prices compared to $130-250k for those without the notation (Down a bit from the last auction where running MP15's were reliably getting a quarter of a million). So it looks like they have a future besides scrap. 

By comparison, the C40-8's went for $14-42k. Many appear destined for a second life, but some of the lowest priced units possibly are facing the cutting torch. 

No sign of the sole SD40-2 that Trains reported was slated for this auction. 

[rdamon]

Link to the auction:  https://www.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=102394&ipp=100&sort=0

 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Without seeing who placed the bids, I would think that the engineless MP15's would be ideal as a starting point for new gensets.

[Brules]

My name is Justin, long time railfan and I live in OKC. I drive by this location daily and have been wondering myself what they are doing.

There are now around 100 engines tied up. The location is the old Nowers yard on the east side of I-235 (Broadway Extention) between NW 23rd and NW 36th st. They have a large mix of engines:

- 700 Series C44-9's

- Cream and Green SD70MAC's

- Possibly some -8's

 

All engines have their exhaust stacks covered and sealed.

I will try to get some pics tomorrow, it is pretty impressive to see. It looks like every last Warbonnet BNSF has is tied up there. There is a large mix of Red/Silvers, Hertiage 1 units and the cream and green SD70MAC's.

From what I have found it looks like all the C44-9's are being rebuilt per wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Dash_9-44CW

"All units are currently being converted to AC44C4Ms and repainted in the BNSF Railway's Heritage 3 paint"

My guess is they tied the units up there to await rebuilds. Not sure what will happen to the SD70MACs.

[Lyon_Wonder]

IMO, the former BN SD70MACs would make good power for a regional like MRL, though I read somewhere that BNSF's going to rebuild their SD70MACs too.

[Leo_Ames]

The only Dash 9's slated for such modifications right now are the original 100 Santa Fe units. Those delivered to BNSF aren't part of the rebuild program currently. And with something like 1,800 C44-9W's and 800 SD70MAC's, I wouldn't count on many of these being rebuilt. 

25 overhauls a year in each class quite possibly are the types of numbers we'd be seeing and it just doesn't work out to rebuild a huge chunk of each fleet before they have a change of heart and go a different direction in a few years.

[Brules]

Here are 2 pics I snapped last week with my phone:

 

 

 

I didnt get to the other end where the SD70MAC's are. Looks like almost all the 700's are here.

[samfp1943]

Just got back home, and about 1 hour ago, I saw #729 (A C44-W- second out) on a NB empty crude tank train, at Derby,Ks.  It looks pretty 'scruffy' these days, from what I saw of it.    Here is a better photo from 10yrs.back:  @           http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=601016

[NorthWest]

Ah, yes, the 600s, 700s and 1000s. A lot of color that is much missed!

[CHIPSTRAINS]

714 was my last lead sept 2014

[K4s_PRR]

Living in Yukon, Ok. I have seen such scenes many times.  The engines are in a yard alongside I-235 N.  Agood look can be gotten from the Istate since it is elevated there.

[mudchicken]

Laid-Up Good Order (LUGO)...Ran out of room at Nowers Yard?

[Blackcloud 5229]

NorthWest

I thought they may have simply removed the block, but pictures show that it is still in place on some of the units. One unit had its cab stripped, but the others seem to be intact. The curious thing is that they don't have much graffiti on them, and I thought that the 645s had been removed from California a while ago. It also doesn't make sense that UP didn't sacrafice something less valuable.

Strange.

 

 

why would California require the engine block cut/ disabled when you simply shut it down and ship it out of state where you can use it on the rest of there system? 

It sounds more like politics than anything else like the environmentalists say " ok here's how we kill all the 645 engined locomotive's they replace then they'll have to buy new locomotive's to replace them".

its time for railroads operating in California to fight back against the 

environmentalist that are trying to get rid of perfectly functioning locomotive's that are useable outside of California. Simply label both sides of the cab of any locomotive replaced from California with " no California service with this locomotive ". Having the engine block cut increases the cost to the railroad to replace California 645 locomotive's.

there are millions of cars that you can't register in California anymore because of state emissions that are simply sold outs California.

the environmental groups have to realize they are one state not the entire country.

 

 

[NorthWest]

Blackcloud 5229

why would California require the engine block cut/ disabled when you simply shut it down and ship it out of state where you can use it on the rest of there system?

Because California helped pay for the new replacement locomotives. Similar to the Cash for Clunkers program vehicle disabling. CARB has asked for 645-engined locomotives to not be used in some areas of California, but I am unsure of their actual regulatory powers due to federal railroad preemption. Metrolink operates a 645-powered F40PH...

[M636C]

NorthWest

 

 

Blackcloud 5229

why would California require the engine block cut/ disabled when you simply shut it down and ship it out of state where you can use it on the rest of there system?

 

 

Because California helped pay for the new replacement locomotives. Similar to the Cash for Clunkers program vehicle disabling. CARB has asked for 645-engined locomotives to not be used in some areas of California, but I am unsure of their actual regulatory powers due to federal railroad preemption. Metrolink operates a 645-powered F40PH...

 

The emissions from a blower 12-645E in an MP15 would be significantly greater per unit horsepower than that from a 16-645E3B in an F40PH.

 

And I know northern and southern California are different countries, but there are rather a lot of F40PHs and derivatives operating around San Francisco and San Jose...

 

Peter

[YoHo1975]

I don't think Calfornia has any rule about 645 blocks per se'. Though they may have required that cutting for those specific units. In general, The California Air Resources board signed an agreement with UP and BNSF which set fleet wide emissions standards for the state. This was a voluntary agreement on the part of the Railroads. Each Railroad was free to meet the emissions standard through whatever methodology made the most sense. In the case of UP, they built the SD59MX units and chased all the Dash8s and Dash9s out of the state. Dash 8s and 9s are rare to never in the state supposedly the least environmentally friendly. They also run their most emissions friendly units, the GE Tier IVs on the I5 Corridor. Hinkle to West Colton almost exclusively. They've rebuilt that SD40-2s, GP40-2s with the CFR1033 part and various improvements and generally unrebuilt units that are older than a GP60 do not exist in the state. BNSF on the other hand doesn't dedicate any road power to the state, so Dash9s, ACes, AC4400s etc all roam free, but almost every 645 based unit has been removed from the state. No GP39-3/39Ms. No GP40-2s, no SD40-2s. The GP60Ms run the locals. I've seen a GP38-2 hear or there. Also, I can't speak for metrolink or Caltrain which aren't governed by the agreement, but both have newer power than those old F40s. In fact Metrolink runs F59s which are 710 based. They don't have any F40PH based units to my knowledge. Amtrak California rebuilt many if not all of their F59PHIs with 710 ECO Tier 2 plants as well.